[felinefan67]

Some of you only eat 35-50 grams per day of carbs. How do you achieve this with eating 5 X's daily??

I find that because I don't like eggs without the yolks (high cholesterol but not medicated)I don't eat egg whites and sauage all that much. I prefer cereals (can't find any below 15-20 grams), oatmeal, or toast (all around 20-25 grams). For lunch or dinner I usually have a salad and side for around 10-20 grams, and then for the third meal I have around 20-30 grams. Add two snacks in there for 30 TOTAL grams you are talking at LEAST 100 grams a day. Some days I average around 150.

Is ultra low carbing even that healthy in the long run?? I've seen sites that say, initially the results are impressive but over time ultra low carbing can do more harm than good.

As a possible PRE-D, is around 100+ carbs a day acceptable?? Also I eat at least one item per day with Splenda because I love the sugar free jellos and puddings. Is that o.k?

my blood is running much "thinner" now and I have lost a few more pounds for a total of 20 lbs in the last six weeks. My FBG and 2 hour post meal readings have all been mid to low normals this past few weeks.

[shiftzor]

As a type 1, I am eating approximately 150g of carbs a day, however in terms of pre-diabetes; the less work you give your pancreas the longer your body will produce those beta cells, so I would suggest that low carbing is definitely worth it. Ultra low carb is just an extream of low carbing, not sure how healthy it is long term. I have never tried it, but a lot of people say its worth it. Breakfast is easier to solve: try making your own muesli if you don't mind fibre or have a high protein breakfast i.e. bacon/sausages/tomatoes/ham/cheese/milk/yoghurt and/or make your own low carb bread.

Muesli I Made

[Jan B]

It's a balancing act, and sadly the "truth" is very hard to find! There are many opinions instead of one simple truth!

It's not that hard actually . . . . . if you give up bread, starches and cereals & of course sweets. Eat lots of greens: spinach, green beans, collard/turnip/etc. greens, asparagus. Pick your fruits carefully and don't eat too much at a time.
And you can eat all the turkey, fish you want, then add whatever other meats and cheeses without adding hardly any carbs at all.

For me, I went from avoiding fat to avoiding carbs as much as possible and I lost 7 lbs. I eat mostly lean meat. I traded oatmeal for omelets and that made a huge difference in my morning numbers, which took me much better into the day. Then I frequently have a giant spinach salad for lunch.

I remember my biology teacher talking about the incredible egg. There is some cholesterol lowering ingredient in the white that partly cancels out the cholesterol in the yellow. I think eggs have gotten a bad rap/rep. I eat a lot of them. I also eat quite a bit of peanut butter, which I used to avoid because of the fat. I truly have learned eating fat doesn't make you fat.

[REDLAN]

Is ultra low carbing even that healthy in the long run?? I've seen sites that say, initially the results are impressive but over time ultra low carbing can do more harm than good.

The point to ultra low carbing i.e. 30g or less of carbs per day is that the body responds by producing ketones, known in the literature as a low carbohydrate ketogenic Diet (LCKD).

There is a lot of discussion about whether it is healthy or not. The fact is that nobody knows for sure either way. There are no long term studies evaluating ketogenic diets. The longest are a year.

One of the other factors that prevent proper study is that the dropout rates for ketogenic diets are very high. Only a few dedicated individuals are able to stick to them for any length of time. Long term Ketogenic diets have been studied in children with epilepsy where they are associated with reduced bone growth, but here again dropout rates are very high. Children on ketogenic diets end up shorter then children who aren't

Calorie restricted Ketogenic diets produce more weight loss, and improve cardiac risk factors (triglycerides particularly) more than other diets, although by the year mark there is little difference between ANY diet, and they all show the characteristic weight gain which begins at the 6-9 month mark.

The potential risk for a long term ketogenic diet is nutritrional deficiency - by virtually eliminating a food group, greater care must be taken to ensure that dietary intakes are adequate. A dietary intake of just 30g would eliminate a substantial proportion of normal fruit and vegetable intake as well as eliminating all cereal intake, potatoes, and legumes. A typical 150g apple would contain around 15g of carbs which would be half your daily allowance of carbs. This is however a "theoretical" risk - what applies to children with epilepsy may not/probably does not apply to normal/overweight/diabetic adults.

[Scrabblechick]

Several members here swear by the ultra low-carb diets. I have posted many times that I admire their self-discipline and dedication. However, I can't do it. I just can't. I try to aim for about 100 carbs per day, which is attainable FOR ME. I don't always hit that mark, but I try. I do pay attention to my calorie intake, since I'm doing my best to lose weight.

It is a balancing act, as Jan said. There are days when I kind of go on "veggie strike" because I don't want to LOOK at another salad, or broccoli, or anything green. LOL. I always go back to the veggies, but some days, I just can't stand the thought of eating any more of them. Heh.

[volleyball]

Being one to avoid the extremes, my philosophy is that go lower carbs. More importantly, eat healthy carbs. That means cutting out the processed carbs, no enriched flour or corn syrup. Avoid the starch rices and potatoes.
As far as cholesterol goes, my belief is that eggs are fine. For us, the bad carbs cause the issue as it hampers our food processing ability. I had good LDL and HDL numbers but the triglycerides were very high, a change to a better diet and now I have good numbers.
Your ability to live healthily with a certain carb ratio is also dependent on you body makeup. I am big boned , not the term for being fat. A doctor taking an ex-ray of my leg called it a baseball bat. For me, higher protein and fat is ok for my system than a person with a small frame, Even if you weigh 300lbs. you may be small framed.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

... The fact is that nobody knows for sure either way. There are no long term studies evaluating ketogenic diets. The longest are a year. ...

The best way to study ketogenic diet is in communitiesthat eat this way. There probably don't exist anymore. So you need to look at trhe writings of explorers who studied these communities in their natural state. Read what Vilhjalmur Stefansson has to say about far noth Inuit communities. Low Carbohydrate Nutrition: Adventures in Diet (Part 1) By Vilhjalmur Stefansson. The community lived on fish and water, from the cradle to the grave. This went on from one generation to the next. And they were in exceptionally good health. There can be no doubt that the diet was ketogenic. These people didn't eat any carbohydrate. The extroardinary thing was that people didn't suffer from scurvy and the other deficiency diseases.

It goes to show that the human body can get used to an "ultra low-carb diet". And there is no need for a study to prove it.

[Phonelady61]

Originally Posted by felinefan67

Some of you only eat 35-50 grams per day of carbs. How do you achieve this with eating 5 X's daily??

I find that because I don't like eggs without the yolks (high cholesterol but not medicated)I don't eat egg whites and sauage all that much. I prefer cereals (can't find any below 15-20 grams), oatmeal, or toast (all around 20-25 grams). For lunch or dinner I usually have a salad and side for around 10-20 grams, and then for the third meal I have around 20-30 grams. Add two snacks in there for 30 TOTAL grams you are talking at LEAST 100 grams a day. Some days I average around 150.

Is ultra low carbing even that healthy in the long run?? I've seen sites that say, initially the results are impressive but over time ultra low carbing can do more harm than good.

As a possible PRE-D, is around 100+ carbs a day acceptable?? Also I eat at least one item per day with Splenda because I love the sugar free jellos and puddings. Is that o.k?

my blood is running much "thinner" now and I have lost a few more pounds for a total of 20 lbs in the last six weeks. My FBG and 2 hour post meal readings have all been mid to low normals this past few weeks.

how do you lose weight and eat all that food ? god I barely eat anything and walk eight blocks a day and still dont manage to loose but maybe two pounds every two weeks . I would be so bloated if i ate what you ate . I am not downing you mind you I am glad for you that you can eat that and still lose weight . I wish I could do that . god love you .

[felinefan67]

Originally Posted by Phonelady61

how do you lose weight and eat all that food ? god I barely eat anything and walk eight blocks a day and still dont manage to loose but maybe two pounds every two weeks . I would be so bloated if i ate what you ate . I am not downing you mind you I am glad for you that you can eat that and still lose weight . I wish I could do that . god love you .

My whole family is on the "Eat Right 4 Your Type (blood type diet) and the pounds are just coming off! I eat things that my blood type is supposedly agreeable with (some suprising things too) and I exercise a half-hour a day, six days a week. I also limit my portions to the serving size on the package. I went down from an all time high of 174 lbs (my height is 5'.1") down to 155 lbs since late March.

I am a VERY lazy breakfast cook. I start work at 7 a.m so I usually eat a piece of toast, 1/4-1/2 c. of cereal (only what my blood type diet says is beneficial for me), or an 8 oz. cup of Dannon light and fit yogurt. I don't think I would have time to bother making an omelet (but I may have to try).

I HAVE cut out ALL white foods though and most sweets (no more full-sized candy bars)(only the odd bite sized piece now and then) and NO cookies, crackers, or chips.

[REDLAN]

It goes to show that the human body can get used to an "ultra low-carb diet". And there is no need for a study to prove it.

The extroardinary thing was that people didn't suffer from scurvy and the other deficiency diseases.

I beg to differ...

It's not particularly extraordinaory. The reason they didn't was not because they became adapted to an ultra low carb diet, but because they adapted their diet to ensure that it contained the necessary nutrients.

The inuit who for a significant proportions of the year had little access to plant material ate not only raw whale blubber known as "mattak", but they also ate raw fish eggs, caribou liver, and seal liver. This is why they didn't get scurvy.

link below is an extract which examined vitamin C content of traditional foods

ScienceDirect - Journal of Food Composition and Analysis : Vitamin C in Inuit Traditional Food and Women's Diets

Organ meats as they are called are rarely eaten now. We get significant amounts of our vitamins from vegetables. I mean, never mind raw fat and fish eggs, when was the last time anyone actually ate any liver?

The criticism that ketogenic diets may lack essential nutrients is currently unanswered - no long term study has evaluated whether the typical western style ketogenic diet would be safe in the long term.

The only study I found looking at safety for long term ketogenic diets was done on children with epilepsy. This study rather than looking purely at whether the diet worked also looked at possible side effects. It is a poor quality study in the sense that there was no randomisation nor where there any controls, and it wasn't even a prospective study, so it is hard to draw firm conclusions.

However, the researchers noted that at the start of the study 10 out the 28 children were at less than 10th percentile for height, which rose to 23 out of 28 children at the latest follow up. This is highly suggestive that the ketogenic diet was nutritionally deficient.

The researchers concluded that the diet worked, but...

Efficacy and overall tolerability for children are maintained after prolonged use of the ketogenic diet. However, side effects, such as slowed growth, kidney stones, and fractures, should be monitored closely.

Long-term use of the ketogenic diet in the treatme...[Dev Med Child Neurol. 2006] - PubMed Result

which leaves me with my original assertion -

The potential risk for a long term ketogenic diet is nutritrional deficiency

[Jeannymarie]

Hi All!

I have been on a low carb diet steady since 2006. I hardly ever eat more than 25-30 carbs a day. Before Diabetes I low carbed off and on (mostly on) since 2002. Not hard when you get into it.

Jeanny

[Alice]

I can't and will not eat the extreme low carb diets although I watch my "whatever" eating carefully.

My personal feeling is that diabetics used to die horrible deaths due to starvation prior to insulin. I prefer to be thankful for insulin and the benefits it provides to my diet and lifestyle.

I'm not talking about "cell starvation"...from the pre-insulin days...that's a given.

I need carbs for energy and brain function. Others seem fine without the carbs...I just can't do it.

I also think that Type 1's on insulin and Type 2's on oral meds are two completely different sets of dietary issues. Individual treatment will vary. I wouldn't base my diet on what another diabetic, Type 1 or 2, eats. We are all very different...athletes, growing, aging, pregnant...you name it...

[Scrabblechick]

I'm in total agreement with you, Alice. I think everyone has to work out for themselves what works best for their individual bodies. When I don't eat enough carbs, I feel almost as lousy as I do when I eat too many: nervous, anxious, hungry, irritable, etc. Everything rubs me the wrong way. That's my signal I need a cracker or something. It's not a hypo--just not enough carbs to keep my system happy.

[BrianSCohen]

I have followed a low carb diet for nearly two years. I feel smarter about this sort of diet and often feel like there are serious misconceptions. Your body goes through changes as you adapt to a low carb diet. After adaptation (about two weeks) you will lose your cravings. Trust me on this.

I find it really amusing that people find low carb a starvation diet. I like this diet because I can eat as much as I want. I routinely eat 3,000 calories a day, sometimes up to 5,000 calories a day. I also learned to love, not fear fat. Over time I have developed a broad range of things that I can eat. I have gained muscle and lost fat on this diet.

There is no strict definition of what is low carb and what is ultra low carb. There is a transition your body will go through that is of marked importance. As you reduce your carbs, you will start to primarily burn fat, producing ketones. You can test for these using ketostix. I usually only have trace levels. These are the hallmark of an ultra low carb diet and for diets like atkins are clear markers that you have successfully reduced your carbs. A low carb diet (typically 50-100 gm/day) may not take you into ketosis. An ultra low carb diet will take you and keep you in ketosis. I prefer to stay in ketosis.

I recommend a low carb diet, and an ultra low carb if you can do it. There don't seem to be any ill effects, it optimally controls blood sugar, you don't ever have to go hungry, and you generally can get very good health and cholesterol results.

[matingara]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

I mean, never mind raw fat and fish eggs, when was the last time anyone actually ate any liver?

Have you never had lamb's liver with fried eggs? wow - you are missing something.

then of course there is pate and chopped liver...

you can do it if you try...

-- Joel.