[Gary_W]

Just a thought.

In this thread, we've already mentioned low-carbing, obesity, ancient diets, guilt at being T2 and religion got a brief look in as well.

If someone could make an inflamitary comment of a political nature about either gun control or pro-choice then we should have the ability to upset just about everybody in one thread

Back on topic.... Frank - on a couple of occasions in this thread you've said that low carb doesn't mean no carb. I don't think anyone was saying it did. Just for clarity, can you state what YOU mean by 'low carb' as it may help the discussion along.

From my understanding / point of view, it is <30g of carbs per day. Just wondering what your take is on it?

[matingara]

Originally Posted by RedRD

Sorry - should've read UNhealthy. This does exclude a diet higher in poly- & monounsat-fats.

i have been away on a seaside vacation. i am so glad to find that the carbohydrate "discussion" is still going on un-abated. i think this discussion is extremely healthy and the more vigorous it is the more we get to test the limits of our beliefs and practices. this type of brinksmanship is important as it gets everyone to examine each end of the spectra.

i must admit that i do not understand what a poly-unsaturated or mono-unsaturated fat is - not off the top of my head anyway.

i have heard tell that there are also trans-fats and saturated fats.

to me it is all just noise and confusion. perhaps i should take more notice. i just eat what i like fat and protein-wise. cheese, butter, olive oil, steak, chicken (including the skin - yum...), fish, some dark chocolate, a little ice cream.

i have started to add cream to scrambled eggs and sauces as i find milk far too high in sugar.

the only thing i limit is carbohydrates. that is the only thing i look out for. i try to eat a maximum of between 30-50g of carbs per day.

my weight is excellent - i have a BMI of 23-24. and it has been stable for over 12 months. my BMI was over 25 when i ate a low fat/high carb diet.

also, on low fat my lipids sucked. now they are low/normal.

as Frank notes, i am also rarely hungry between meals.

so my question is do i need to pay attention to the mono-unsaturated, poly-unsaturated, trans-fat, saturated fat nonsense as well? any input gratefully received.




-- Joel.

[RedRD]

Originally Posted by matingara

i have been away on a seaside vacation. i am so glad to find that the carbohydrate "discussion" is still going on un-abated. i think this discussion is extremely healthy and the more vigorous it is the more we get to test the limits of our beliefs and practices. this type of brinksmanship is important as it gets everyone to examine each end of the spectra.

i must admit that i do not understand what a poly-unsaturated or mono-unsaturated fat is - not off the top of my head anyway.

i have heard tell that there are also trans-fats and saturated fats.

to me it is all just noise and confusion. perhaps i should take more notice. i just eat what i like fat and protein-wise. cheese, butter, olive oil, steak, chicken (including the skin - yum...), fish, some dark chocolate, a little ice cream.

i have started to add cream to scrambled eggs and sauces as i find milk far too high in sugar.

the only thing i limit is carbohydrates. that is the only thing i look out for. i try to eat a maximum of between 30-50g of carbs per day.

my weight is excellent - i have a BMI of 23-24. and it has been stable for over 12 months. my BMI was over 25 when i ate a low fat/high carb diet.

also, on low fat my lipids sucked. now they are low/normal.

as Frank notes, i am also rarely hungry between meals.

so my question is do i need to pay attention to the mono-unsaturated, poly-unsaturated, trans-fat, saturated fat nonsense as well? any input gratefully received.




-- Joel.

Never suggested low-fat. Moderate amounts of everything. Of course, who knows what moderate is? For supper tonight - chicken (and I love the skin, and prefer dark meat) cooked in EVOO, smothered in a creamy mushroom soup gravy with rice, brussel sprouts (w/a good dollop of butter), and a yeast roll. Yummy. Bolused appropriately, haven't ckd my BG yet...

[RedRD]

Originally Posted by matingara;405245

[B

so my question is do i need to pay attention to the mono-unsaturated, poly-unsaturated, trans-fat, saturated fat nonsense as well? any input gratefully received.
[/b]



-- Joel.

I suggest limiting saturated and trans-fats. Just a suggestion. It is what I do (just limit them, don't kill myself to avoid them), and my #s are good, too.

[EdnBama]

Originally Posted by Rad Warrier

But I realize that all diabetics are not like me.

I imagine that somewhere there is a diabetic who is exactly like you, even if it is just yourself!

[matingara]

Originally Posted by RedRD

I suggest limiting saturated and trans-fats. Just a suggestion. It is what I do (just limit them, don't kill myself to avoid them), and my #s are good, too.

i appreciate the suggestion. but - i do not know what a saturated or trans-fat is. are there any rules of thumb? looks like i should wiki these items...

[matingara]

Originally Posted by RedRD

Never suggested low-fat. Moderate amounts of everything. Of course, who knows what moderate is? For supper tonight - chicken (and I love the skin, and prefer dark meat) cooked in EVOO, smothered in a creamy mushroom soup gravy with rice, brussel sprouts (w/a good dollop of butter), and a yeast roll. Yummy. Bolused appropriately, haven't ckd my BG yet...

i didn't say you said "low fat" did i?

sounds a lovely dinner! we are unable to get brussel sprouts at the moment as they are out of season here.

what was the size of your bolus? what was the carb count you used? how long before eating did you bolus?



-- Joel.

[Rad Warrier]

Originally Posted by matingara

i must admit that i do not understand what a poly-unsaturated or mono-unsaturated fat is - not off the top of my head anyway.

i have heard tell that there are also trans-fats and saturated fats.

to me it is all just noise and confusion.

...

so my question is do i need to pay attention to the mono-unsaturated, poly-unsaturated, trans-fat, saturated fat nonsense as well? any input gratefully received.

There is more to add to your confusion Like Omega 6, Omega 3, DHA, ALA, ...

Let me answer your question (which you highlighted in blue, bold and italics) thus: Paying attention or remaining ignorant is one's own choice as is treating everything one doesn't know about as 'noise' and 'nonsense'

Regards,
Rad

[matingara]

Originally Posted by Rad Warrier

Paying attention or remaining ignorant is one's own choice as is treating everything one doesn't know about as 'noise' and 'nonsense'

Regards,
Rad

Thanks Rad. my theory is that the fats i like are probably OK. i am not sure i want to over-analyze it.

to take this to an extreme, i also am ignorant of the difference between what i consume each day and what i excrete each day. however, i have heard of people who use this parameter as a crucial part of their health maintenance regimen (seriously).

i have visibility of a multitude of parameters about my body. i keep these under control without going overboard. if i add more parameters i will rapidly reach the point of diminishing returns - surely.

therefore, i need to evaluate what is valuable input and what is noise...

does that make sense?



-- Joel.

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by RedRD

Sorry - should've read UNhealthy. This does exclude a diet higher in poly- & monounsat-fats.

Polyunsaturated fats are less healthy than other fats (not trans-fats, but either saturated fats or mono-unsaturated fats).

[Gary_W]

Originally Posted by ShottleBop

Polyunsaturated fats are less healthy than other fats (not trans-fats, but either saturated fats or mono-unsaturated fats).

That's news to me; I was under the impression that saturated fats were the ones to avoid in excessive amounts, polyunsaturated are OK and monounsaturated are rather good for you.

Perhaps others could clarify for us?

[Caravaggio]

Fats are classified based on their composition, that is, depending on which fatty acids predominate.

All fats are mixtures of fatty acids, and the terms unsaturated or saturated refer to the predominant components. So, even beef fat (which is saturated fat) contains unsaturated fatty acids, while olive oil (which is monounsaturated fat) contains saturated fat.

Saturated fats (mostly animal fats, butter fat, chicken fat, lard, coconut oil and palm oil) are not good. Saturated fats become hard and opague in the cold, and the higher the temperature at which they stay hard the more saturated they are. Notice how duck, beef, chicken or pork drippings quickly solidify at room temperature. The accepted medical view is that saturated fats promote atherosclerosis and other other unwanted conditions. Avoid or eat less of them.

Polyunsaturated fats - safflower oil, sunflower oil, corn oil, sesame oil, nut oils, - are vulnerable to oxidation if left exposed to air or heated in the presence of air. Minimize intake. If you use them, use them in salads or cold food. Don't heat them.

Monounsaturated fats - olive oil, canola oil or rapeseed oil, avocado. Supposed to be the best for your body.

Transfats or trans-fatty acids - found in commercial chips, cookies, most fast food, margarine, solid vegetable shortening and all partially hydrogenated vegetable oils - are never found in nature. These fats are a result of polyunsaturated fats being put through high-temperature chemical treatment that changes their molecular structure. These are the worse and should be avoided.

Fish oil - source of wonderful Omega 3s which are supposed to reduce blood clotting and inflammation and provide other benefits. Salmon, sardines, mackerel, herring and other oily fish from cold northern waters.

Hope this helps. (Now to get back to work. )

[Gary_W]

I didn't know the bit about not heating polyunsaturated oils. Thanks for that.

Also, I thought peanut oil (groundnut oil) was mono, not poly?

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by Gary_W

Frank - on a couple of occasions in this thread you've said that low carb doesn't mean no carb. I don't think anyone was saying it did. Just for clarity, can you state what YOU mean by 'low carb' as it may help the discussion along.
From my understanding / point of view, it is <30g of carbs per day. Just wondering what your take is on it?

Although I am currently on very-low to zero carbs myself - realistically under 20g /day - I do not suggest that everyone needs to follow what works for me... as wiser folks have said, "test your BG and eat to your meter".

For me, very low works best just now, as I find I have a very low tolerance for carbs and even a small amount can lead to a downward spiral into wanting more.

My point was simply that; when "low-carb" is mentioned in a thread it seems to elicit polarised reactions and statements such as, "why advocate such an extreme diet that excludes an entire food group"... while "low-fat" seems to be automatically seen as a healthy, moderate, balanced diet.

Maybe if folks could get over this gut reaction that low-carb, high-fat, Atkins or whatever you choose to call it MUST be unhealthy (a paranoia fed by the media , food industry and even many health professionals) we might actually be able to move ahead with something that obviously works for many in a positive way

Even though I know it is unfounded, I do understand the paranoia... I still look at my breakfast bacon sizzling it its own juices and sometime have to fight off images of "artery clogging fat" ... the media etc... have sure done a good job of the brainwashing

[fgummett]

On the "fats" question,

consider a porterhouse, select cut steak, with a half-centimeter layer of fat, the nutritional constituents of which can be found in the Nutrient Database for Standard Reference at the USDA Web site. After broiling, this porterhouse reduces to a serving of almost equal parts fat and protein. Fifty-one percent of the fat is monounsaturated, of which virtually all (90%) is oleic acid, the same fat that’s in olive oil. Saturated fat constitutes 45% of the total fat, but a third of that is stearic acid, which is, at the very least, harmless. The remaining 4% of the fat is polyunsaturated.

In other words... if we eat good-quality, real, whole foods there is no need to over-think it.

BTW trans-fats do exist naturally in small amounts, but I have always avoided processed/manufactured "foods" like margarine anyway.

So far as I understand, there is no true scientific study proving the theory that links saturated fat with atherosclerosis/cardio-vascular disease.