[kidg]

I'm sure that many of you on this forum have heard about the suspected link between viral vaccinations and the onset of Type 1 diabetes.

While there is no concrete proof, many years of study have led some researchers to suspect that viral and bacterial vaccines (rubella, mumps, measles) may play a role in weakening the immune system of those who are already pre-disposed to Type 1. Basically the study finds a correllation between an increase in vaccination programs and an increase in cases of Type 1 diabetes among juveniles. I know that my un-scientific summary probably will cause many to say, "huh?". So here is an article that does a better job at explaining than I do.

http://www.909shot.com/diseases/juvenilediabetes.htm

Okay, I'm sorry for rambling but this leads me to my question. I'm wondering if anyone here can recall (if they were old enough to recall things), being vaccinated for any of these things shortly before being diagnosed with diabetes?

The reason that I'm curious is because, in my case, before I was allowed to register for college enrollment, the university that I attended required that I be vaccinated for rubella. (My medical record showed that this had never been done when I was younger and the university required it of all new students). The thing is that I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes shortly after graduating (4 years later). Since I have absolutely no family history of diabetes, I could never figure out why I "got so lucky".

While I can't sit here and definitively put the blame on the rubella vaccination, I do find the possibility of a link very interesting. And, as an amateur scientist, I am simply wondering if anyone else can point to a similar vaccination before being diagnosed with Type 1 or if I've just been reading too much science fiction...

Thanks guys

[JediSkipdogg]

Well, if the above has any truth, then I'm an outcast. I was diagnosed type 1 before I had many of the vaccinations that children get and way before any of the other vaccinations one receives in life. I was diagnosed at 11 months old. I'm not a parent yet, but do children even get vaccinations before 11 months? If the answer is no, then obviously that doesn't apply to me at all.

[duck]

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

Well, if the above has any truth, then I'm an outcast. I was diagnosed type 1 before I had many of the vaccinations that children get and way before any of the other vaccinations one receives in life. I was diagnosed at 11 months old. I'm not a parent yet, but do children even get vaccinations before 11 months? If the answer is no, then obviously that doesn't apply to me at all.

Oh yeah, Jedi. They like to load you up before you are 1 year old:

http://www.immunize.org/cdc/child-schedule.pdf

Unless you are a bad parent like me, and follow a more lax schedule.

[JediSkipdogg]

Originally Posted by duck

Oh yeah, Jedi. They like to load you up before you are 1 year old:

http://www.immunize.org/cdc/child-schedule.pdf

Unless you are a bad parent like me, and follow a more lax schedule.

****, and 1-2 years old they load you up with more. No wonder why so many people are druggies in this country, they start you out young.

[seacomp]

Originally Posted by kidg

the university that I attended required that I be vaccinated for rubella. ... The thing is that I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes shortly after graduating (4 years later). Since I have absolutely no family history of diabetes, I could never figure out why I "got so lucky".

If you are anything like most people there are very many things you did either for the first time, or to excess, during the college years. Why not examine them as possible causes?

[grace girl]

I've thought about all of that before after a conversation that I had with the doctor who originally told me that I was type 1. I was diagnosed at age 32, well past vaccination age. He asked me a ton of questions about myself from the time I was a child until then. He came to the conclussion that there had been signs of diabetes going on with me since I was in my late teens.
At age 17 I received another dose of the MMR because the year that I recieved the first vaccination in childhood was considered not to be strong enough. (I was born in '68, don't know what year I had that first set)
Another fact about that....when my first child was born when I was 22, from the routine tests they do at birth they thought he had been exposed to measles while I was pregnant because of a huge number of anitbodies in his system. They finally traced this back to that second MMR I had at 17.

I would not be suprised at all if they found a serious link there.

[kidg]

Now that's the kind of response that I was hoping for by bringing up this topic.

Thank you, grace girl

[duck]

Originally Posted by seacomp

If you are anything like most people there are very many things you did either for the first time, or to excess, during the college years. Why not examine them as possible causes?

Well, for me I had diabetes by the time I was 17 (before college) and two, I never did anything to excess...at that point.

[poodlebone]

I have no clue what vaccinations I got as a kid. I know I got the one that left a mark on my upper arm, a circular scar, but don't remember what vaccine that is. In freshman year of high school (when I was 14) the school told me that I needed a booster of some vaccine, which they gave, but again I don't know what it was. In college I needed yet some other booster. I went with my sister when she took my niece to the pediatrician and got it there. I was diagnosed with diabetes when I was 19, in college. I'm pretty sure that it was after that last vaccine but I'm not 100% sure.

I have five older siblings and they all got the same childhood vaccinations as me and none have diabetes.

[duck]

Originally Posted by grace girl

I've thought about all of that before after a conversation that I had with the doctor who originally told me that I was type 1. I was diagnosed at age 32, well past vaccination age. He asked me a ton of questions about myself from the time I was a child until then. He came to the conclussion that there had been signs of diabetes going on with me since I was in my late teens.
At age 17 I received another dose of the MMR because the year that I recieved the first vaccination in childhood was considered not to be strong enough. (I was born in '68, don't know what year I had that first set)
Another fact about that....when my first child was born when I was 22, from the routine tests they do at birth they thought he had been exposed to measles while I was pregnant because of a huge number of anitbodies in his system. They finally traced this back to that second MMR I had at 17.

I would not be suprised at all if they found a serious link there.

Don't count on it. I'm too tired to get into it, but for mere avoidance of liability issues, a "link" will never be found. Imagine the lawsuits if just one parent proved their kid was made sick by one vaccine...

[DeusXM]

Laughable. Sorry, but it's just laughable. If it was true that a vaccination helped spark off diabetes, then the majority of people would have diabetes. You're also showing a lack of understanding of how genetics works. Just because no-one in your family has had diabetes before doesn't mean you won't get it. If people in your family are carriers of the bad gene then they can pass that on, and if they have children with another carrier, there is a risk that the children will have both the faulty gene sequences necessary.

The reason T1 diabetes rates have increased are for a few simple reasons:

1 - better doctors. The condition is actually being diagnosed now.
2 - survivors with diabetes having children.
3 - reduced breastfeeding throughout the general population.
4 - low exposure to infectious conditions.

I'm sorry but the idea that vaccinations cause diabetes is laughable at best. You might as well say they cause cancer or asthma or allergies or any one of about a billion other conditions that have increased in the last 50 years. In fact, you might as well say vaccinations are responsible for any negative phenomena you care to mention, like tigers becoming endangered or 9/11

I'll tell you exactly why you have T1 diabetes. It's because you've got a faulty gene sequence that you inherited from your parents which means your immune system attacks your islets of Langerhans. No offense but your source is using phenomenally bad science. If you're able to present a source that isn't a rabid 'WE HATE VACCINES' site then I'd be more inclined to take it seriously.

Oh, and I've never had the MMR vaccine. Apparently that vaccine also causes autism, which is frankly hilarious, as if a vaccine could change the genetic wiring of the brain.

If we lived in less clean environments, our immune systems would have real threats to deal with and wouldn't get 'bored' and attack the internal systems.

[duck]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

Laughable. Sorry, but it's just laughable. If it was true that a vaccination helped spark off diabetes, then the majority of people would have diabetes. You're also showing a lack of understanding of how genetics works. Just because no-one in your family has had diabetes before doesn't mean you won't get it. If people in your family are carriers of the bad gene then they can pass that on, and if they have children with another carrier, there is a risk that the children will have both the faulty gene sequences necessary.

The reason T1 diabetes rates have increased are for a few simple reasons:

1 - better doctors. The condition is actually being diagnosed now.

So when people died from diabetes in the past, the terrible doctors we had in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's weren't qualified to diagnose that cause of death?

2 - survivors with diabetes having children.

It's not like diabetics were dying in their teens and twenties. We have members here who have had this disease long enough to be our grand parents.

3 - reduced breastfeeding throughout the general population.

I'll have to double-check, but I think I read somewhere that breastfeeding in the US is on the uptick...Certainly I can attest right now it is happening in my household. I have no idea what the breastfeeding rates are in Europe or Australia or Asia, but diabetes is becoming a common malady in those areas as well.

4 - low exposure to infectious conditions.

I completely disagree with this line of thought. Basically, if it were correct, people in the middle ages would have been living healthier lifestyles than those that are living in the space and internet ages. But I guess when you die in your teens from plague, you miss out on your chances of developing diabetes, so maybe it's a correct line of thought.

I'm sorry but the idea that vaccinations cause diabetes is laughable at best. You might as well say they cause cancer or asthma or allergies or any one of about a billion other conditions that have increased in the last 50 years. In fact, you might as well say vaccinations are responsible for any negative phenomena you care to mention, like tigers becoming endangered or 9/11

That's kinda the point as well, deus. Look at the numbers: Asthma, autism, diabetes are exploding in the populations of the "western world", an increase that began in the mid-80's. Here in the US, many things have been considered as the culprit(s); Increases in the ingestion of highly processed foods, addition of MTBE to the gasoline supply, power lines (yeah, I know), and a remarkable change in the timing of childhood vaccination schedules all occured in the early 80's. Well, the power lines have been around a while (yeah, I know. But I still wouldn't build a house near anything that buzzes or makes your hairs stand on end when you are in close proximity).

I'll offer this as well: When you start having kids, put your money where your mouth is...it kinda makes you question everything you ever believed. "Vaccines are good for you...", but they do make some kids sick. Well, how sick? Fever, convulsions. Oh, convulsions, well, that's not bad in a child who is only six months old. Are there other side effects? Yeah, but not that often. "Not that often"? I guess playing roulette with my baby's health is an interesting game, sure...

I'll tell you exactly why you have T1 diabetes. It's because you've got a faulty gene sequence that you inherited from your parents which means your immune system attacks your islets of Langerhans. No offense but your source is using phenomenally bad science. If you're able to present a source that isn't a rabid 'WE HATE VACCINES' site then I'd be more inclined to take it seriously.

Oh, and I've never had the MMR vaccine. Apparently that vaccine also causes autism, which is frankly hilarious, as if a vaccine could change the genetic wiring of the brain.

If we lived in less clean environments, our immune systems would have real threats to deal with and wouldn't get 'bored' and attack the internal systems.

[DeusXM]

So when people died from diabetes in the past, the terrible doctors we had in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's weren't qualified to diagnose that cause of death?

No, I'm talking prior to that era.

It's not like diabetics were dying in their teens and twenties. We have members here who have had this disease long enough to be our grand parents.

It was 80 years ago. It's a trickle down effect. More people from the 1940s onwards survive with the condition to have children, which results in a massively increased number of carriers. This will inevitably result in an exponential increase in the cases of T1 from the 60s onwards. There are simply more people out there with the bad genes that contribute to T1 reproducing.

I'll have to double-check, but I think I read somewhere that breastfeeding in the US is on the uptick...Certainly I can attest right now it is happening in my household. I have no idea what the breastfeeding rates are in Europe or Australia or Asia, but diabetes is becoming a common malady in those areas as well.

So? That doesn't outweigh the damage done by the drop in them between the 60s and 90s. And it doesn't really do a lot to offset the massive increase in T1 genes now present in the population.

I completely disagree with this line of thought. Basically, if it were correct, people in the middle ages would have been living healthier lifestyles than those that are living in the space and internet ages. But I guess when you die in your teens from plague, you miss out on your chances of developing diabetes, so maybe it's a correct line of thought.

Only if you totally fail to apply logic to the matter. Put it this way...do people in their 50s and 60s tend to have as many allergies or chronic conditions as kids today? No, they don't. The 'Hygeine Hypothesis' makes good scientific sense, has been documented quite throughly in the British Medical Journal and is supported by independent research - http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-wvl061406.php

Look at the numbers: Asthma, autism, diabetes are exploding in the populations of the "western world", an increase that began in the mid-80's.

Actually, it's been going on since the 1950s. So maybe it was that pesky smallpox vaccine that set it off. Or, as is more likely, the huge increase in hygeine that has happened in the last 60 years.

I'll offer this as well: When you start having kids, put your money where your mouth is...it kinda makes you question everything you ever believed.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make you a better scientist. By all means, question things, but if you're unable to present any actual scientific evidence from an unbiased source, taking the moral high ground doesn't suddenly make you more an authority than scientists, most of whom are presumably parents too.

The fact is that T1 is a genetic condition. Vaccines don't change your genes. Vaccines do not go in and dramatically remove chunks from your DNA. The reason T1 cases are on the increase is because there's a wider dispersal of T1 genes in the human gene pool world wide, combined with hyperactive immune systems caused by low exposure to threats. Look, a vaccine is just a bunch of deactived disease-causing cells. The idea that it somehow changes your genetic composition is bad science.

This is part of a long line of frankly ridiculous 'scares' that the general public buy into. Aspartame causes cancer. MMR causes autism. Mobile phones cause cancer. Every time something new comes along, someone somewhere makes some outrageous claim, point blank fails to back it up with rigarous evidence, and then people latch on to it. And of course, you'll then get all this stuff about magical herbs that cure such and such. It's just an extension of snake oil.

If vaccines did truly cause diabetes, the stimulation of the immune system they cause would mean you would develop diabetes in a matter of months after the vaccine. Not years afterwards. I'm sorry but it's just bad science that would get laughed out by any competant biologist.

[duck]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

No, I'm talking prior to that era.



It was 80 years ago. It's a trickle down effect. More people from the 1940s onwards survive with the condition to have children, which results in a massively increased number of carriers. This will inevitably result in an exponential increase in the cases of T1 from the 60s onwards. There are simply more people out there with the bad genes that contribute to T1 reproducing.

So, in the eons prior to coming up with an effective therapy, diabetes didn't breed itself out of the population? How many T1s here have kids that are also diabetics? How many T1s here have a parent(s) who is/are diabetic? I know the "genetics" crowd will soon post this data about recessive genes and how the precise combination of mom's and dad's genes eff'd each of us over...but where the rubber meets the pavement, I wonder how vertically and horizontally for as far as any relative can remember, I am the ONLY Type 1 in my family. Going back into the early 1800's on three continents. But I digress...In the back of my mind, I will shuffle away the possibility that therapies are allowing disease carriers to live longer and propogate their disease.

So? That doesn't outweigh the damage done by the drop in them between the 60s and 90s. And it doesn't really do a lot to offset the massive increase in T1 genes now present in the population.



Only if you totally fail to apply logic to the matter. Put it this way...do people in their 50s and 60s tend to have as many allergies or chronic conditions as kids today? No, they don't. The 'Hygeine Hypothesis' makes good scientific sense, has been documented quite throughly in the British Medical Journal and is supported by independent research - http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-wvl061406.php

So are aborigines in Australia or tribesman in Africa living healthier because they lack AC, particle filtration and hand sanitizers?

Actually, it's been going on since the 1950s. So maybe it was that pesky smallpox vaccine that set it off. Or, as is more likely, the huge increase in hygeine that has happened in the last 60 years.

I'd be curious to see some sources on that. We've posted links before here regarding the explosion of autism in the western world beginning in the 1980's. I have not ruled out the possibility that autism is "exploding" in society because of better recognition of the disorder. But I still wonder how there are not more 30 and 40 year old autistics running around in the world, esp. now that we can identify them better? Diabetes and asthma rates are increasing as well, and starting at about the same time in the early 80's (I'll get a link when I get home). It's an interesting and scary thing to consider why this is happening...

Unfortunately, it doesn't make you a better scientist. By all means, question things, but if you're unable to present any actual scientific evidence from an unbiased source, taking the moral high ground doesn't suddenly make you more an authority than scientists, most of whom are presumably parents too.

The fact is that T1 is a genetic condition. Vaccines don't change your genes. Vaccines do not go in and dramatically remove chunks from your DNA. The reason T1 cases are on the increase is because there's a wider dispersal of T1 genes in the human gene pool world wide, combined with hyperactive immune systems caused by low exposure to threats. Look, a vaccine is just a bunch of deactived disease-causing cells. The idea that it somehow changes your genetic composition is bad science.

Nah, there's more to a vaccine, and you don't have to be a scientist to understand that things like Mercury and Aluminum are bad for you:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/components/additives.htm

That scare-tactic site makes it quite clear they are more concerned with the many additives added to vaccines than they actual muted disease cells.

The body can deal with trace amounts of formaldehyde, I know this. But the thought of injecting a trace amount of formaldehyde worries me, and the thought of injecting it into a six-month old is beyond worrisome.

This is part of a long line of frankly ridiculous 'scares' that the general public buy into. Aspartame causes cancer. MMR causes autism. Mobile phones cause cancer. Every time something new comes along, someone somewhere makes some outrageous claim, point blank fails to back it up with rigarous evidence, and then people latch on to it. And of course, you'll then get all this stuff about magical herbs that cure such and such. It's just an extension of snake oil.

You forgot to mention bovine milk as the elixir of evil...

If vaccines did truly cause diabetes, the stimulation of the immune system they cause would mean you would develop diabetes in a matter of months after the vaccine. Not years afterwards. I'm sorry but it's just bad science that would get laughed out by any competant biologist.

Says who? If you are born with the genes for T1, why do some of us present with this disease at 11 months, others at 17.5 years, and others well into adulthood? Ask a competent biologist/geneticist to explain that to us, maybe we can laugh at them as well.

[grace girl]

In response to all of this I would have to say that I'm not against vaccines even with my suspicions. All of my children had all of theirs, and I don't suggest that people avoid them. I wouldn't say that I think that vaccines are the ONLY cause, either. I just suspect there is some link there with some people. (Just like some children DIE from vaccines, while most survive just fine.)

Also, I was breastfed.

I had a mysterious illness at age 4 (right after the last round of vaccines) that had me in and out of hospitals for a year. I was the physical size of a 2 year old. They tested me for everything under the sun, and tested me for diabetes repeatedly. They finally decided my tonsils were the cuprit, and removed them. Over the next year the "mysterious" illness slowly disappeared. When I was diagnosed as type 1 four years ago, all my mother could think about was that illness all those years ago.

I truly believe that somewhere in all of that is a link to why I have this now. Vaccine? Viral? I don't know. There have been no people on either side of my family with type 1 as far back as anyone can look.

I don't know that liability is so much the issue, as finding the reason.
About 10 years ago when they first developed the chicken pox vaccine my very level-headed pediatrician told me, "You children are healthy as horses. No need to make them sick." I can imagine that statement might bring on horrific looks from many people, but I understood his point.

I don't believe in coincidiences. When things like this come up, and come up, and come up....good science means giving it an honest look. On that chance that it might save ONE person from getting this....it would be worth every cent and every minute.