[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by duck

But if DP and the defining rise in BS (um, blood sugar) occur while asleep, and you wake up normal and go high as a result of waking up, then is that still DP?

I will ask that exact question...

[psilocybin]

im going to have to say...yes i am a morning person, and no i am not effected by dawn phenomenon

[duck]

Originally Posted by psilocybin

im going to have to say...yes i am a morning person, and no i am not effected by dawn phenomenon

You people are ruining my nice bell curve...

[jen_slc]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

During my last appointment I talked to my endo about what was happening when I wake and that I thought it was a liver dump. He wouldn't say one way or another what exactly it was, but he did not say it wasn't DP. I will pose the question again and dig deeper on my next appt 10 days from now.

For what it's worth, my endo told me my problem (waking up w/normal bg but huge spike right after I got up) was due to a liver dump and not DP precisely because I woke up with normal bg. He said if it was DP, I would already be high upon waking. There doesn't seem to be any consistency on this topic no matter where you go for answers.

As for a name, maybe call it "wake up phenomenon" I honestly do think this is something different from DP because without breakfast, my bg will spike no matter what time I get up, 7am or 11am. DP is related to circadian rhythm and times, my wake up spike is not.

[Cinnabon]

Originally Posted by duck

So...you suffer from it, but you correct it with insulin (and a pump)...

I was able to control it very well w/ my pump(settings). I am a morning person, but this does not affect me anymore with my right settings.

[HelenM]

As for a name, maybe call it "wake up phenomenon" I honestly do think this is something different from DP because without breakfast, my bg will spike no matter what time I get up, 7am or 11am. DP is related to circadian rhythm and times, my wake up spike is not.

Im a morning person and this happens to me, I'm confused and havn't responded to the poll!

[JasonJayhawk]

About 90% of the time, I'll need to take a couple units of fast-acting insulin after waking up from a 6+ hour sleep. This doesn't matter whether I wake up in the morning or the afternoon. Of course, it's not that simple, but it's a general condition for which I watch.

[spring]

Hmm, very interesting topic!

I guess under your system I qualify as a non-morning person. I was always a natural early riser (7am even on weekends) until I was about 16, then teen growth and hormones and the like made me sleep more (and therefore later) but I'm still super chipper when I wake up and alert the second my eyes open, especially if I get nine hours (it's ridiculous but at 20 I still need 9 to be fully rested!)

I don't suffer true DP under the criteria, but more what others like cyborg are describing. Sometimes when I wake up it's quite high, but not all the time. However, even if it's perfect, if I don't eat it rises quite a bit after I wake up (the only exception being when I'm low, but even then I'm sensitive to carbs and if I don't over treat/increase the ratio with my short acting I end up being 12-16 post prandial, despite being 2 or 3mmol/l upon waking/prior to eating)

As per defining early bird or night owl, I suppose there are something like 3 categories
True Early Bird - Wakes up naturally quite early, and is full of get up and go.
Semi Early Bird - May stay up late and need assistance to wake early/naturally sleeps in, but is immediately awake and cheery (to night owls annoyingly so. I had many a friend tell me that I'd just better shut up until first period or they'd be temped to punch me) and if forced awake early, still quite alert.
True Night Owl - Stays up late, sleeps in late, needs an alarm and is semi comatose or cranky for a good half hour (perhaps requiring food to wake or a shower, and sometimes still remaining out of it for an additional half hour)
*I'd say those who get up early because of commitments but are forced/require an alarm clock and suffer similar symptoms to the night owl qualify as such. If you're not getting enough sleep or have erratic hours, I think that also affects your ability to wake up unassisted.


I feel if I went to bed earlier, I would automatically wake up earlier, it's just I've formed a habit/pattern of staying up (er.. on the internet) and sleeping in late. I don't always need an alarm clock if I keep regular hours though, and am always alert the moment I open my eyes.

[KickStart101]

I've known since I was about 10 yrs. old that I am Not a morning Person.
From the known definition of DP, I do Not have DP.
I even stayed at the sleep clinic to try and find a solution to it. No luck there.

I do however have the "other Phenomenom"(I like Jen's name for it )...
where, I get up with a normal blood sugar level, eat and drink nothing, exercise even, to no avail. My sugar level within 60 minutes will have gone from say: 4.8/86 to 7.0/126. As someone mentioned, the liver dumping to get you started for your new day. Stupid liver. This is a normal happening so there has to be a normal name for it. Every little thing has a name.
**************
Sorry, I'm side-tracking this thread because I don't want to start another.

This is also normal for me and probably loads of other Diabetics.

I got up at 12:00 noon yesterday. I needed some groceries(since we decided to stay here for the week-end since it's supposed to be 40C , where we were going has no air conditioning Forget it ). Hubby was in the back yard building his trailer, so he wouldn't have time. My Daughter agreed to go with me.

My sugar was 4.5/82. I ate and drank Nothing but a small glass of water. I took No Insulin. The sun was already beating down. We walked almost a mile, (never measured it)to the store, walked around shopping for about an hour, met some Friends, yapped for a while, walked halfway home, rested(Arthritis was painful), did a bit of window shopping, admired tons of flowers on the rest of the way home. I checked my sugar after I put the groceries away. After a good 3 hrs. and No Insulin, my sugar was 6.1/110.

Just interesting and I've done this many times, same result.

I figure:

1. The sun: takes energy out of a Person
2. The outside exercise: takes more energy
3. The stress of going outside before I am awake: takes energy
4. No food: no energy

All combined kept my sugar down.

Actually it was not that stressful. I enjoyed it.

[DeusXM]

I'm definitely not a morning person - I need to put the alarm on snooze at least three times and woe betide ANYONE that gets in the way of me during the shuffle from my room to the shower. Once I've had a shower I generally do a bit better.

However, I don't suffer from DP at all. That doesn't mean my BG doesn't necessarily rise, just that it's never high when I wake up. In fact usually I wake up borderline hypo, between 3.5 and 4.5 pretty consistantly.

However, when I was on Insulatard, working irregular hours and not eating breakfast, I'd suffer from horrific BGs first thing in the morning - we're talking 10s and 12s here. Then I would feel really crappy. That's what UI loved about moving back onto Lantus and getting better morning readings - I just feel so much better in the mornings, but not enough to actually get out of bed and enjoy it!

[JediSkipdogg]

Originally Posted by duck

I see what you're saying, and no matter how it is defined, I know you want to get it handled...But if DP and the defining rise in BS (um, blood sugar) occur while asleep, and you wake up normal and go high as a result of waking up, then is that still DP?

This would make an interesting diabetic conference...

I would still consider it DP and I know alot in the medical community do. They consider any unexplained rise in morning BG (not caused by the Somogyi Effect) as DP. It sounds to me like you are considering DP as ONLY a rise between 4 and 8 am in which the rise is slowly with waking. Whereas alot of others in the community say it can happen after waking and can be distinguished also by normal BG levels but high insulin resistance (which is me.)

[JediSkipdogg]

I just looked online and here's an interesting read...

http://www.insulin-pumpers.ca/darnphenomenons.html

I know most in the medical industry consider all of those phenomenons in that article as the DP with different causes. But there they break them down as all different. So in a sense, to each their own....and what I have is the "Breakfast Phenomenon"

[duck]

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

I just looked online and here's an interesting read...

http://www.insulin-pumpers.ca/darnphenomenons.html

I know most in the medical industry consider all of those phenomenons in that article as the DP with different causes. But there they break them down as all different. So in a sense, to each their own....and what I have is the "Breakfast Phenomenon"

That's a good read, and more along the lines of where I am coming from...there is more than just "DP" affecting many of us.

Seriously, this topic would make for a great conference...

[LIZBETH1956]

I am most definatly a morning person...I get up early even when I don't have to! And soon as my eyes open I am up and ready to go! Used to drive my daughter nuts when she was a teenager. This morning when I tested my bg was 274. And I bolused last night before bed!

[am1977]

So what happens when you are not a morning, afternoon, OR night person ...