[joe_34]

Has anyone else experienced the same side effects on Lantus, no waning signs for hypo's, bad control, extreme tiredness, aches in hands & joints, aggressive mood swings, not knowing if your high or low & doctor's giving you other excuses other than it's the insulin & you are the only one to bring it up, I suffered all of these until my switch to pork where all the side effects disappeared, I have spoke to a few others with the same side effects but it has only been out here in Scotland for just over a year & not enough is known about it here. We have to search for our own info as the doctors tell us there is nothing wrong with it, but amazingly we have felt fine since our switch in Insulin.

[HeatherP]

I've heard of people having problems after switching from beef/pork insulins to the newer "synthetic" insulins. Usually in cases of long term use. Other than that I don't know that much about it - I've been on the "synthetic" stuff myself since diagnosed.

Welcome to the Forums!
HeatherP

[joe_34]

I have done a lot of research on & Lantus seems to work for a lot of people but it's time the doctor's realised like all medication it may not suit everyone & yes there are those of us who suffer from mild to severe side effects, it's frustrating when they tell you it can't be the insulin yet everyone around you who knows you can see the change in you since you took it, we have been trying to speak to more people in Scotland or the UK but it seems there are not a lot of forums based here, but any info helps & lets us know we are not alone.

Thanks

Joe

[HeatherP]

I think I heard Lilly was going to stop making the beef/pork insulins but there was a big outcry from people who had problems on the newer insulins, so for now they're continuing to produce it. I hope for your sake and people like you they will continue to make the "older" insulins. Different people have different reactions.

Take care,
HeatherP

[Oradev]

I have also experienced some problems with Lantis.
Since I have been on Lantis, I have had problems realizing that I'm going low, and have also had problems distinguishing between highs and lows. I am really considering going back to NPH. Going to find out a little more of the side effects.

[joe_34]

You could try going onto the I.D.DT website they have lots of info on lantus & other human insulin.

[Musqua]

Hi there:

I have been on Lantus for 1 1/2 yrs now. I have had some side effects like mood swings, Profuse sweating(not sure if it was a hypo attack or a "hot flash'" There is a web site for lantus users. It is quite informative. If I may ask joe_34 what part of Scotland are u from? I lived there for awhile.


Heather W. (your Canadian friend)

[joe_34]

hi heather
i stay in a place called johnstone about ten miles from glasgow where did you stay?

joe

[joe_34]

hi again
i have a couple of web sites as well,i used to sweat a lot at night sometimes the bed would be saturated in the morning and the mood swings were horrendous you can e mail me what sites you have as well

thanks joe

[Mick]

Huh--I guess it's pretty much different for everyone, eh? I was on beef/pork insulins from diagnosis in 1965, until I was put on the "rDNA human" insulins in the late 80s or early 90s--not sure exactly when. Up until that time, I'd been fairly well-controlled, had lows but always caught them and treated them myself. After going on Humulin R & NPH, I went out of control. I'd pass out cold with no warning, forget where I was or what I was doing and wander off during work, had several car accidents, and sometimes would not awake in the morning until my wife called 911 and they sent the medics up. The doctors chalked it all up to the many decades I'd had diabetes, and claimed the loss of awareness of my lows was something that came with the territory. They advised that the only way to stay safe was to run my sugars high.

I didn't like that, and began to do research. It seemed there was an outbreak of "hypo unawareness" shortly after the introduction of human insulin, but it only affected people who had been on animal insulin for a long time--not newer diabetics. What saved my life, after missing out on most of the 1990s in a fog of hypos, was changing from the rDNA insulin to the "analog" insulins when they came out--Novolog and Lantus. I actually got back my early warning symptoms for lows when I switched off R & NPH. Since switching two and a half years ago, I have not had one single low I did not recognize and could not treat myself. I'm no longer a ticking time bomb, waiting to detonate. I don't have those early-morning hypos that soak the bed, or the middle of the night ones that sent me naked, shivering and sleepwalking into the kitchen, only to find myself at 3AM sitting in a pile of oreo cookie crumbs, with matted bits of cookies tangled in my hair... I thank medical science and the lord every day for getting me off that roller coaster with Lantus and Novolog.

Michael
T1 since 1965

[DeusXM]

From what I've seen on the internet, Joe wasn't kidding about the mood swings.

And although I now have my own reservations about Lantus after comparing other people's experiences with my own, I'm sure as **** not going to jump onto this ill-informed bandwagon of bashing synthetic insulin.

The tragic thing is that the 95% of people who have had problems with synthetic or human insulin have previously been treated with animal insulin. And to me it's fairly obvious why. Their bodies are simply just used to dealing with the animal stuff, and because synth insulin has a different action to animal, it's a case of having to completely relearn how to control their diabetes, which explains away instantly the problem with swinging bg etc.

Sythn insulin IS human insulin. The way it's produced is by taking the DNA combination responsible for the production of insulin in human and replacing the DNA of a single-celled organism with that DNA. The insulin that comes out is IDENTICAL in EVERY WAY to the insulin produced by a non-diabetic human.

I've noticed that a lot of the arguments against human insulin presented by the appalingly ramshackle IDDT are highly emotive rather than scientific. The fact that their central argument seems to rest around a poorly written article from the Daily Mail, a third-rate reactionary rag with an offensively right-wing outlook on life, is just plain embarrasing. The whole 'debate' is simply this ridiculous paranoia that people have about 'Frankenstein' foods/medicines, which itself was whipped up by the Daily Mail a few years ago in an effort to boost sales. I'm going to come out and be offensive and simply say the sad fact is that the majority of people are just too stupid or ill-informed to understand what GM actually means, but thankfully my generation will be far more informed and able to make rational decisions based on science rather than emotions since GM is now part of the GCSE syllabus.

The fact that the Daily Mail article did its usual trick of taking the most extreme examples and portraying the people involved as saints, demonising Britain's first left-wing prime minister since 1979, and then trying to make out that arcane organisations are controlling out lives, suggests to me that the writer of the article had no clue as to what they were talking about and were deliberately trying to incite paranoia. See for yourself at http://www.iddtinternational.org/dailymail.html

There is no way I am buying into this human insulin fear since I have been treated by it since I was diagnosed and have had no problems until I was put on Lantus. I can understand why older members may have reservations, since, as I said, there are obvious problem with the switch from animal to human because of the relearning involved. Lantus is a different matter since before it was released it had been noticed that a higher percentage than normal had experienced allergic reactions so I'd say that it's not a perfect insulin, but that doesn't take away the fact that Humalin I and Humalog work absolutely fine.

I'm not going to comment on Joe's individual case since I have no right to but I would say that, since I have had problems switching from Humalin I to Lantus, it's only fair to say that those switching from animal to Lantus will suffer even more. For the record, though, people might be frightened of putting GM insulin in their bodies, but I'd much rather take something made in a clinical environment which makes an identical insulin to the one I used to be able to make, rather than inject stuff from a dirty cow or pig's body into my blood.

[Littlebit63_99]

I was on beef/pork NPH & R from 1970 untill 1996 when I was given a pump and put on Humalog.

I have to say, I had no trouble making the switch.

I think all of this is easier understood if we remember that we are all individuals, and as such will all have different reactions to different degrees. Meds, foods, exercise, stress, work. All of our bodies react differently because we are all unique.

Some people have allergies while others don't.......tho I am not suggesting allergies to insulins......I am simply making a point.

It makes sense that some people would have trouble switching, while others don't.

Take care all
Hugs,
Liz

[joe_34]

deus xm
i have been a diabetic for 31 years and had no major problems and for no reason was put on to human insulin where problems started coming with losing my warnings to hypo's which could be deadly in its self then to be put onto lantus to solve all these problems which i would not have had if i had not have changed to human to discover the new lantus nearly killed me and my girlfriend and gave me my worst year of my life,i found out about most of these things through iddt and if it was not for them i would not have got my life back to where it is now so i cant for the life of me work out why you can rubbish them as all the people who represent them are diabetics themselves? also the statement you made about us older diabetics having to adjust and get used to the new medication is also confusing as we all have the same condition and it is the medication that we are being given to treat the illness that is making us ill not the illness itself.you also state you would rather take medication that is made up in a lab my humans rather than from pigs which is c loser to a human that you will get,do you really think they walk into a dirty sty remove the insulin from the pig put it straight into a bottle and send it off to the patients?i think maybe you should read more into what iddt study before coming away with your rediculous coments.
joe

[DeusXM]

Joe,

I'm not about to get into an aggressive argument with you over this since I understand why this is a highly emotive issue. However, in the interest in remaining on good terms, I would like to clarify a few things from my last post.

With reference to older diabetics having to adjust to new insulin types - it's an established fact that synthetic insulin is more aggressive and faster acting than animal-derived insulin. Therefore, anyone who transfers from animal to synth is highly likely to experience problems. Most people know how much insulin they generally need to take depending on the situation, you get a 'feel' for how it works. I realise this doesn't sound particularly scientific but in talking to other people with diabetes and my care team it seems that the majority of people who've had diabetes for a while do have these impressions. Once you move to an insulin which works differently, all your estimates you used to live by are wrong, which is where the problem starts. For the record though, I don't think I ever suggested that everyone should be transferred to human insulin, everyone should stay on whatever works for them, and I will concede that IDDT have a point when it comes to the commerical pressure made by pharmaceutical companies.

As for the production of animal insulin, I don't for one minute think that they walk into the farms with a great big bottle and needle. I think the idea is as ridiculous as 'Frankenstein' insulin or food, or the scientist bogeyman that the right-wing press try to create. The reason I set forward such a daft idea is because I felt it complimented perfectly the mindset of 'it's GM so it must be bad'.

I'd argue that all newly diagnosed T1s should at least be tried on human insulin first to see if it's ok for them. There are a lot of ethical concerns raised by the use of animal insulins. What do vegitarian or vegan diabetics do? What about Muslims or Jews who cannot eat pork? Are animal insulins therefore suitable for them? Synth insulin is also cheaper to mass produce, so the more people are on it, the more the NHS can save and therefore spend the money on other resources. However, I don't think anyone should be moved between insulins for the sake of it, it should be demonstrated that they'll have significantly better control, and there is, at the moment, still a genuine need for animal derived insulins.

I still stand by my comments on the IDDT since I (rightly or wrongly) get a very strong impression that they believe all human insulin is bad. They state that they believe there should be a wide range of insulins available but I've yet to see anything on-site that's positive about human insulin. You say that human insulin nearly killed you. I appreciate why you are so concerned. However, I would like to point out that human insulin saved my life, and although animal derived insulins would have done the same, the fact remains for me that I still feel very attached to my Humalog, probably as much as you feel attached to your previous insulin treatment.

I still think that Lantus is an unknown issue though, and I am more than happy to help you in the research you've currently been doing on this. I apologise if I've offended you in any way and I hope that we can work together it getting our best possible treatments.

[joe_34]

hi deusxm,
i will start by pointing out that i changed onto human insulin more than 16 years ago and had no option about it because it was the same then as it is now, your doctor tells you what is the best for you and are not interested in anything you have to offer in return as they always know best,when they first introduced human insulin i was told that i could lose my warning signals which looking back i should never have been given it , this time is different my body had already adjusted so it was no dramatic change but i got told there were absolutely no problem with lantus as it was the new wonder drug drug for diabetes it would also bring back my warning signals sounded too good to be true and it was even to the extent i was told all the problems i had had nothing to do with lantus but nobody could give any reason as to why all my problems have now gone because as you said it is a LOT CHEAPER ,for some reason as with car insurance and jobs you can do diabetics will always be second class citizens and yes i feel very strongly about this because as you say people going from animal - human is more severe so why change it,before lantus came on the market there were a number of danger warnings and concerns about it but they were ignored as it was cheaper,i wonder if the money they save will go to the care for the 20% that they say it wont work for,i very much doubt it,you say about the ethical views,yes people should have the choice about what they are taking for religous reasons or any other reason but this choice is being taken away for people that want to stay on animal as the medical profesion will always dictate that they know best,i wonder if they were to start taking hypos during the night or even just one hypo in there lives if they would have the same opinion ?.
you also talk about iddt and the pressure from pharmaceutical companys did you know that most forums like this you are not allowed to talk about a lot of things incase you upset these companys and they threaten to shut down these sites do you think that is fair? maybe if you changed to pork you might find it works better for you,i also have high blood pressure and am taking tablets 20 years earlier than i should be but i have never noticed any effects you have had as the sweating cleared when i changed back,i have been speaking to a lot of diabetics recently who have had all the problems i have had and through iddt i have realised quite strongly that i am not the only one which i previously had been told,i also think these forums are very good as all through my life i think i must have talked to about ten diabetics and never talked about what i was feeling ,it has been an eye opener to realise there are a lot of people out there in the same boat and yes sometimes it does get heated and i think that might be down to being able to release those built up frustrations.

all the best

joe