[TShelton]

I'm sure that a lot of you have seen my post about discrimination in the military torward diabetics. I am still fighting to get into the military. But I am a criminal justice major at the University of GA. If the military thing doesn't work out, I am going to persue a career in law enforcement. If a police department discriminates, I most definitely think I could win a fight against that. As I've said I am more than qualified and I most definitely can meet the physical requirements of a police officer. I have very tight control and VERY RARELY have low blood sugars. When I do have them, it comes in the middle of the night during sleep. So what are your thoughts on this one people?

[Harold]

By law you should not have any problem. Then there's the real world, which is why we have the law. I remember some links to court cases and the law. So if you end up needing them hollar and I'll see if I can find them again.

[DeusXM]

Don't wish to dishearten you, but I think it's unlikely that you would win a legal battle. I don't know what the law is in the US, but in the UK, if you have diabetes you are automatically barred from the armed forces, the fire service and law enforcement, on the ground that you could have a hypo at a potential dangerous time. Despite your apparantly good control and qualifications, these kinds of employers have no obligation to assess each individual's case. If they see 'diabetes', then they're fully within their rights to refuse employment.

The only exceptions to in this case are when employees develop diabetes whilst being currently employed. There was a case of a firefighter who had this happen to him so he was dismissed from his job, but after a lengthy legal battle he was reinstated.

Currently Diabetes UK over here is lobbying for individual assessment rather than blanket bans. Examples of the stupidity of the law include office jobs in the armed forces - for instance, I wouldn't be able to get a 9-5 desk job in RAF logistics because of the armed forces ban. Similarly, there was another case 2 years ago of postman who had T2. He used to drive a post van on his rounds, but then his doctors decided he should move to injections rather than tablets. Because Royal Mail have a policy that people who have to inject insulin cannot drive RM vehicles, they made him ride a bike instead, on the grounds that he might have a hypo behind the wheel. This struck me as incredibly dumb, since even people on tablets have hypos, and riding a bike would be much more likely to cause a hypo than driving a van!

Anyway, don't want to dishearten you, by all means give it a shot, but I think you might end up being disappointed and there's not really a lot you can do about it. Sorry. Been through all this before myself so I know what a s**** deal it can be.

[rzrbks]

TShelton

As I've said I am more than qualified and I most definitely can meet the physical requirements of a police officer. I have very tight control and VERY RARELY have low blood sugars. When I do have them, it comes in the middle of the night during sleep. So what are your thoughts on this one people?

I hate to rain on your parade but I think the question is not so much "What control do you have now?" but rather "How do we know that you will be able to maintain the same level of control?"

I'm not sure that the 2nd question can be answered to the satisfaction of the "Powers That Be." In fact, that's a question none of us can answer.

Do you sign an agreement that if at a certain point you can no longer maintain control that you leave the field and don't hold them responsible?

I know that this applies to everyone but not to the same degree.

[TShelton]

I would think that there would be some sort of agreement like the one you mentioned. If I could no longer perform my duties, I definitely do not think that I should continue to be an officer. All I am asking for is an individual assessment when being considered for the position. As for blanket bans in law enforcement, the ADA here in America prohibits that. There must be individual assessments. Hope that clears up any confusion.

[rzrbks]

TShelton,

Maybe desk job/situation?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying, in fact, I cheer you on. I'm the sort who expects for the worst and hopes for the best.

[Harold]

What the LAW says is you do not have to tell them you have diabetes untill after they offer you a Job and you have the Medical exam. See below;


ADA and LAW Enforcement

[1. Q: Who is a "qualified individual with a disability" for employment?

A: A qualified individual with a disability is an employee or job applicant who meets legitimate skill, experience, education, or other requirements of an employment position that he or she holds or seeks. The person must also be able to perform the "essential" (as opposed to marginal or incidental) functions of the position either with or without reasonable accommodation. Job requirements that screen out or tend to screen out people with disabilities are legitimate only if they are job-related and consistent with business necessity.

2. Q: The ADA prohibits making disability-related inquiries or giving applicants for police jobs medical examinations until a conditional offer of employment is made. Why?

A: In the past, people with disabilities, particularly those with hidden disabilities, were denied jobs once potential employers found out about their disabilities. The ADA seeks to prohibit discrimination by limiting an employer's knowledge of an applicant's disability to a later stage of the job application process. Under the ADA an employer may only ask about an applicant's disability or give a medical examination after the employer has made a job offer. The job offer can be conditioned on successfully passing a medical examination. Thus, if the person with a disability is denied the job because of information obtained from the medical examination or because of the applicant's disability, the reason for this decision is out in the open. This procedure should limit impermissible consideration of disability.

[WiseWords]

Originally posted by TShelton
I'm sure that a lot of you have seen my post about
discrimination in the military torward diabetics.
I am still fighting to get into the military. But I am a
criminal justice major at the University of GA.
If the military thing doesn't work out, I am going to persue
a career in law enforcement. If a police department
discriminates, I most definitely think I could win a fight against
that. As I've said I am more than qualified and I most definitely
can meet the physical requirements of a police officer. I have
very tight control and VERY RARELY have low blood sugars.
When I do have them, it comes in the middle of the night during sleep.
So what are your thoughts on this one people?

I think you sound like a 13 year old kid who's upset because
he can't have it his way !
You certainly don't sound like the kind of police officer I would
prefer to deal with, although many of those macho cops have
attitudes like your's. But that is just my personal opinion.

The facts are that you would be putting the live's of fellow
officers, and the public at large, at risk from your diabetic condition.
It is true that a diabetic can do anything that anyone else can do,
but there is also the need for common sense.
While someone with diabetes can climb the tallest mountain,
if they want to, it is pretty much a one-time thing.
I am not at all sure that a job involving mountain rescue
during a winter snowstorm would be the best thing for
a diabetic to do. Likewise for being a policeman.

Three jobs that are unsuited for people with diabetes are
those of a policeman, fireman, or paramedic.
I am sure that ZooKeeper will also have some comments on
this subject. She especially, has expressed complaints about
controlling her BG and not knowing when she gets low.
I know that I would not want to be in a position to have
to depend on a paramedic who might have a low blood sugar
when my life is at stake !

Those three jobs, in particular, consist of haphazard
schedules with the possibility of extra physical activity
at any time. Don't you think that could risk the lives of
those you are trying to serve or work with?
It doesn't really matter whether you can tell when
you get low or if you usually do not get low during
the day. Point is, you could get low at a critical time.
Suppose you are chasing a criminal on foot through
the streets or neighbor's backyards. Are you going to
shoot at him if you are low, or not make it over a
six to ten foot high fence because you got low?
Is he going to get away, or are you going to shoot a gun
while you might be low?
Your body would be producing adrenalin during a chase,
and that, along with the extra exercise from running,
could cause you to get low without immediately being
aware of it. Even if you were aware of it, what are you
going to do? Stop and have some glucose !

Of course, that is a hypothetical, and it is difficult to
discuss hypothetical situations. But, I do not think that
you are looking at the situation in a rational manner.

As you are a criminal justice major, go for a job as a lawyer.
At least it has more pay, and less risk to the victim, client.

You have no way of knowing if you may develop
hypoglycemic unawareness, although you admit that
you presently have some problems during sleep.

What if you were on a lunch or dinner break and
had to respond to an emergency which prevented you
from finishing your meal ?
Think you might get low then ?

Better alternatives, if being a lawyer is not appealing,
would be running your own security company, or,
your own company as a private investigator.
That doesn't mean being a security guard if you have
your own company. But in either case, you could be
involved in law enforcement, which is your field of study.
The advantage of being in business for yourself,
is that you can take a break to check your BG and
have some source of carbs, if needed, whenever you want.
That would be my advice.

[DeusXM]

Once again WiseWords takes the sledgehammer approach, and once again can't give any useful advice without throwing in a few insults.

Jesus Christ mate, what the **** IS YOUR PROBLEM? You obviously know what you're talking about (generally), so why is it that you always, ALWAYS have to go in guns blazing without even remotely stopping to think about how other people are going to react? Do you really get off on trying to sound like you're superior? I admit, sometimes you do need to be firm to get your message across, but there's a world of difference between being assertive and being just plain arrogant and you don't seem to have a clue where the line is whatsoever.

Have a heart will you? We're all p***ed off because we got given a the bum deal in genetics, but those of us with half a brain or a proper personality just deal with it instead of taking it out on others. Are you even capable of seeing things from someone else's perspective? TShelton's just been shafted because he can't get the career he really wants through no fault of his own, he comes here looking for support and advice, the rest of us here give it, give him some options, and then you come along and what happens? You just rub salt in the wound. I'm not disputing that TShelton is going to find it difficult, we all know that life's hard enough anyway without having a terminal genetic failure, but if we all just fold over and give up the moment things become difficult, we'd never get anything done. Maybe you've just lost too many battles and have become disenfranchised, but I'm a born warrior and I'll fight to the death for my rights if I think I've got a case.

They said I shouldn't scuba dive because I was diabetic. I've dived in Tenerife, Cornwall, and the Great Barrier Reef, and I'm a qualified BSAC diver.

They said I'd never be able to do shift work because it'd scew up my control. I spent my summer doing shift work to pay my way through university and I was absolutely fine.

They said I'd never be able to everything that other people my age do, like drinking, or all-night parties. I do this stuff every week.

Quitting's for losers. You've got to fight tooth and nail, and it's not fair, but it's the way it is and you ever sit back and accept what people say you can and can't do because you've got diabetes, you're betraying yourself and the rest of us, because if you lie back and let people walk over you just once, they'll do it again and again.

If you're so convinced that because we have diabetes that we're delicate, fragile individuals who spasm in hypos the moment we start jogging, I'd like to point you firmly in the direction of Tim Hoy, a firefighter (a career that has haphazard schedules). He has diabetes, and yet, bizarrely, he's able to do his job, because he refused to accept the received 'wisdom' that people with diabetes can't do those kinds of jobs. Go to http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/%7Eirfduk/irfd3.htm and read his story, and look at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/%7Eirfduk/irfd2.htm to see exactly how to cope in those kinds of jobs with diabetes.

We've got enough ignorant morons out there who think that we should be limited in what we do just because we have to think a bit more before doing anything. We don't need a 'Wise'Words as well.

[WiseWords]

Sorry if the truth offends you.
I do think there were clear points that I made about
a person with diabetes being able to do whatever
anyone else does.
But I also made the common sense point that one
does need to use some common sense.

It does shatter our egos if we have to admit that
some things are not ideal for us to do.
But, putting other people's lives at risk,
just because we want to prove something, is foolish.

I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule,
and one can find diabetics doing most everything,
including drinking, partying to excess, and let's not
forget, complaining about poor diabetes control.

But, I know that I will never get in the ring with
Mike Tyson, or marry Brittney Spears in Los Vegas,
or anywhere, and I don't feel bad about those things at all!

I do not think it a question about being limited in terms of what
we are capable of trying. We can try anything, as can
most anyone. But some choices are not good choices.
Many people pointed out reasons why the military might be
a poor choice, and the guy came back with an
equally poor alternative. I do not think it is offensive
to suggest that there are better choices, to explain why,
and to point out at least two possible things that
could work for him.

I think that our society has a problem with the word can't.
We are told from childhood never to say "I can't".
The real truth is that there are many things that some people
can't do. And, admitting it, puts one ahead of the game,
not behind.

As far as scuba diving goes, I heard a Red Cross swim instructor
promote it to diabetics over 40 years ago at a camp for
children with diabetes, where I got my Jr. Life Saving.
I can also understand the problem that might occur if
one got low while under water, but if someone said
that diabetics should not do that, I would take exception
to that. At the same time, I don't think the Coast Guard
would hire me, and rightfully so. !

Quitting may very well be for losers. Risking the life of other
people, is a whole different situation. That is what sounds harsh to me.

[zookeeper671]

Wise Words, although heartlessly stated with a complete lack of social skills, has a point.

Realistically, there are some jobs that diabetics just shouldn't do. It's not that they can't... it's that they shouldn't.

I won't be working as a Paramedic in the future. The schedule is too unstructured, and that's my only reason for not pursuing this path. However, I have decided to become an RN. That I know I can do without difficulty. For the record, it's only been 3 months since my diagnosis. It's been a very bumpy road, but I'm doing much better... have pretty good control now. Also, not once did I have a hypo while I was working on a Rescue Squad. I tested every hour to be safe.

My heart breaks at the loss of my dream. I worked as an EMT on an ALS unit in the past, before diagnosis, and I thrived. Loved the job so very much.

Tshelton, if becoming a police officer is where your heart lies, then you need to do everything in your power to take excellent care of yourself (which it sounds like you're doing). You also need to know when to "let go," when it no longer becomes possible for you to do the job. Sadly, Diabetes increases our limitations... whatever they may be.

Best wishes always,
Angie

[TAutry]

Hello all,

It appears that what might be a useful discussion has degenerated into a name calling session. As a result, I am closing this thread to further posts.

I will also be private messaging some of you.

Travis Autry
Diabetesforums Moderator