[Oradev]

Deux,

can you let me know what those other people who have had problems with it say? Because I am on Lantus again, for the 3rd time and I still do not feel as great as I did on NPH. My sugars are in more control now, but its possible i'm also having side effects again. Keep me informed.

Adam

[Oradev]

Here is a hyperlink to a site that lists side effects of Lantus. All of the more common side effects listed are the ones people are experiencing.

Link

[DeusXM]

The ones which us lot are particularly worried about are mood swings. As I said before, my diabetes nurse thinks that Lantus has caused depression, or at the very least, 'low mood' in a significant number of her patients. The main problems I had were low mood and excessive perspiration. Others have found that their mood swings from one extreme to the other very dramatically.

[lgvincent]

I suffer from intense depression and don't use Lantus.

[WiseWords]

From what you have said, it seems that Lantus
has had some negative side-effects related to depression
and mood swings. However, as this is not a reported
symptom of Lantus, from Aventis, the manufacturer, it
will be very important to have credible evidence, rather
than reports which might be suspect.

The first thing that Aventis will say when they hear reports
of excessive perspiration along with mood swings, is that
you were low and didn't realize it. Those are symptoms
that go along with a low BG.
It will raise the question of whether or not you had a
mild low BG, perhaps because of taking too high a dose
of Lantus. I am not saying that is what happened, but it
is the question that will be raised.

The other thing that you will need to be extremely cautious
about, is people with other agendas.
A consumer TV show may be looking for stuff without
checking all the facts, or with "facts" from those with
other agendas. This could make a legitimate report backfire.

Same for the Emails that your nurse is getting.

There is a small minority of people who think that the
synthetic human insulins are not good.
I don't want to debate why they feel they have more in
common with cows & pigs, but anytime there is a chance
to put down the human type insulins, they will be the
first one's in line. Just a word of warning so that any
legitimate reports do not get discarded.

[fishy]

I would like to add two things:

-- I was depressed when I was on Novolog as it was such an utter PITA. My depression went away when I started on Lantus as my life become my own again.

-- *Lots* of people are depressed, even more are borderline depressed or suffer from "low mood". I dare say the numbers are even higher amongst people with a chronic condition like Diabetes. Establishing a link between depression and Lantus from the sort of anecdotal evidence described here is fraught with difficulties and there is an obvious risk of jumping to conclusions and getting people worried about something that is probably (although not definitely) baseless.

[mary54]

My depression started about 2000. I started mixing Novolog with my Humulin N insulin in 2002 with no added side effects. I still have quite a few low's and high's but manage to keep my A1c around 6.7. If my sugar drops below 70 I know it immediately and the same if it goes above 200. I also check my suger 5 times a day.
lgvincent: What type of meds. do you take for your depression

Mary54

[lgvincent]

Prozac doesn't work. I'm taking Lexapro now. It worked for a few weeks but it's loosing its effect. I've considered Effexor but I've heard it can cause weight gain so that's out too.

[DeusXM]

It's a good point how Aventis will claim that my problems have been bg related. Unfortunately, although I can quite pointedly argue that I tested whilst sweating a lot and found my bg to be normal, proving it is a different matter, but hopefully my HbA1c would back up my good control.

As for depression...the best cases I've got so far for that are myself, and another campaign member I'm in contact with, who went onto Lantus, developed severe depression in 2 months, went back onto pork insulin and was fine within a matter of weeks.

I refuse to join in the bandwagon of labelling all synthetic insulin as the work of the devil. I know this is Joe's perception, but it's not mine, since my argument is based on the fact that Humalin I is perfect for me but Lantus gave me problems. My issues are with Lantus and Lantus alone. I can't help but think that Aventis are going to have to admit there is a higher risk of side-effects with Lantus. I remember reading somewhere that the rate of irritation at the injection site with Lantus was something like 10-15%, whereas with most other insulins it's more like 3%. I'd imagine therefore that Lantus itself is more likely to cause side-effects, and I also believe that Aventis has yet to fully document them since they themselves don't actually know. The side-effects listed are just hypo symptoms - in other words, Aventis have had the grace to admit that Lantus can cause low blood sugar, which isn't exactly a surprise, you know.

I'm just hoping that enough people will come forward with anecdotal evidence to undermine confidence in Lantus.

[fishy]

"I'm just hoping that enough people will come forward with anecdotal evidence to undermine confidence in Lantus"

Huh? It's a really good drug that has brought huge benefits to lots of people -- why you would you want people to "undermine" it?

I assume you meant -- "if a sufficient body of anecdotal evidence emerges about side effects of Lantus then I hope a proper scientific investigation will take place to ascertain whether there are clinical issues that need addressing and if so what the best approach should be".

Nothing in this thread suggests to me that there is serious evidence of link between Lantus and depression -- which is not to say there isn't just that its a little premature and arguably irresponsible to start scaremongering in this way.

Just my 2p

Matthew

[statdeac]

I use Lantus for basal and bolus with Humalog. Been using Lantus for more than a year with no side effects.

[joe_34]

Originally posted by WiseWords
From what you have said, it seems that Lantus
has had some negative side-effects related to depression
and mood swings. However, as this is not a reported
symptom of Lantus, from Aventis, the manufacturer, it
will be very important to have credible evidence, rather
than reports which might be suspect.

The first thing that Aventis will say when they hear reports
of excessive perspiration along with mood swings, is that
you were low and didn't realize it. Those are symptoms
that go along with a low BG.
It will raise the question of whether or not you had a
mild low BG, perhaps because of taking too high a dose
of Lantus. I am not saying that is what happened, but it
is the question that will be raised.

The other thing that you will need to be extremely cautious
about, is people with other agendas.
A consumer TV show may be looking for stuff without
checking all the facts, or with "facts" from those with
other agendas. This could make a legitimate report backfire.

Same for the Emails that your nurse is getting.

There is a small minority of people who think that the
synthetic human insulins are not good.
I don't want to debate why they feel they have more in
common with cows & pigs, but anytime there is a chance
to put down the human type insulins, they will be the
first one's in line. Just a word of warning so that any
legitimate reports do not get discarded.

hi oradev
i was on lantus for a year and the first 3 months were great my blood readings were better and the hospital told me NO one had any problems that they know of,after three months i started to notice i did not know if i was high or low and had to test it about 7 times a day i started to get very aggresive and attacked two people in my work for no reason,my hands were very painful and i could not make a fist,i started sweating very heavily in my sleep where i had to change my sheets daily my mood often went very low and i would blame everything on everybody else,i would fall asleep sometimes just wherever i could get a seat as i would have no energy it got to the stage i nearly got arrested twice because i nearly killed my girlfriend and i took two severe hypo's when i was asleep and had to be dragged from my bed at not one time did i think it was anything to do with the insulin untill my girlfriend found a sight on the internet and now i have changed to pork i feel like a completely different person and have all my signals back,i have never had any episodes of violence before this,my life is back on track now,because of lantus i could either be in jail now,killed my girlfriend or dead also to wisewords i have never heard so much patronising garbage in my life,i wonder what my agenda is? aventis did not want to comment on any of these symptoms nor could they give any reason why all these symptoms have now stopped,i wonder if you had any of these you would have the same views,i very much doubt it,still it is people like you that keep me fighting on.THANKS

joe

[Teresa]

wow Joe, im really sorry to hear u had problems to that extent... that must have been scary beyond belief! *hugs* All i know is Lantus is ok for me at the moment! Glad u have found some insulin that works better for u!

[joe_34]

hi teresa
yes it was and the worst bit was that i never put any of it down to lantus and i know there are a lot more out there,it also gets me angry when people keep telling you it is fine when there are a lot of reports saying otherwise but everyone else knows your body better and no one does anything to help,basicaly you are on your own

joe

[DeusXM]

Huh? It's a really good drug that has brought huge benefits to lots of people -- why you would you want people to "undermine" it?

Simple. It doesn't benifit everyone, and has more adverse effects on users than any other insulin - the allergy rate is something like 10-15% compared to the usual 2-3%. The sad thing is that, although this information is available if you look very carefully for it, I was never informed of these problems. I don't want people to have to go through what me, Joe, Dave, or the 8 patients of my diabetes nurse had to go through.

I've already said that Lantus is a great insulin. It offers brilliant control. However, when 9 people at the same clinic go onto Lantus and then suddenly develop depression, I think I'm fully obliged to think that, you know, maybe there's something in this whole Lantus-depression thing, especially since it happened to me.

If Lantus works for you then that's great, but I think people should be made much more aware that Lantus can cause serious side-effects in almost a fifth of its users.

The fact that the side-effects I and others have had aren't mentioned by Aventis proves nothing. Lantus is still a new insulin. Its risks still haven't been fully documented. If you want to jump on me and everyone else who's had problems then fine, but remember this: if you keep trying to effectively shut up peoplelike me who've had problems, how on earth are pharmeceutical companies ever even going to broach the possibility that their new wonder medicine might be flawed.

Lantus might have done wonders for a lot of people. It also might have destroyed the lives of a lot of others too, who haven't had the information necessary to help them link their problems to being POSSIBLY caused by Lantus. Don't you think it's right that we should demand a full enquiry?