[DeusXM]

I don't usually go in for appeals to others, but this is very important.

I've been talking to Joe elsewhere on the board about Lantus side-effects, and from him it's rather obvious that a lot of people have had problems. This encouraged me to talk to my diabetes specialist about Lantus problems. Her first response was that there weren't any significant problems with it. I then told her about some of the side-effects I'd been suffering.

Her face dropped. It was then that she confided in me some rather worrying things. Namely, Lantus is a very new insulin and has not been properly tested yet. She then went on to tell me that a significant number of her patients who she'd put on Lantus had gone on to develop depression, which disappeared almost immediately after they went back on to isophane.

She put me back on isophane. The transformation has been frightening. I realise now that very probably I was depressed, but I was doing the classic male thing of not considering it and believing I was just a little down rather than having a serious problem. Looking back at my other postings, especially the ones about sleeping, although I'm no doctor it appears, on reflection, that I was suffering many of the symptoms of bi-polar disorder.

I went back onto isophane a few days ago, and I'm just astonished by my mood. I've been in a state of perpetual euphoria for several days now, my self-confidence has skyrocketed, and for once I am actually starting to enjoy life again. I realise that this euphoria won't last, my own belief is that now I feel like 'normal' people do, and it's such a change from before that it feels like euphoria. Even so, I'm overjoyed (and slightly frightened) by the transformation.

Many people have attributed the side-effects associated with Lantus as purely blood sugar related, but I'm starting to think that something very different is afoot. I am now utterly convinced that there is something in Lantus that interferes with hormones. With my self-confidence has come along a massive reduction in fatigue, a general increase in strength and stamina, increased libido and aggressiveness. All these changes are similar to men with low testosterone levels who then go onto testosterone replacement therapy.

I've absolutely no way of proving this but I can't help but think that Lantus somehow interfers with testosterone (and possibly other hormones) levels.

Whatever it is, I simply haven't felt better now that I'm back on isophane.

Whilst I don't share Joe's suspicions about synthetic insulin as a whole, I wholeheartedly agree that there is genuinely something wrong with Lantus which can affect certain people. Therefore I appeal to every single person here on Lantus, regardless of whether you think you have suffered side-effects or not, to ask to at least go onto isophane insulin for just a month, to see if you find it makes a difference. I am simply astonished by how much better I feel with isophane after just a few days.

I implore you to challenge your doctors on this issue, and do not allow them to fob you off. This is your health and your life here. Please, please try all the options you can to make sure you have the very best of both.

Thank you.

[zookeeper671]

Deus~ I can't really comment on Lantus since I've never been on it, but I'm so so so glad you're feeling better! That really is wonderful news. I pray the feeling lasts forever for you.

Best wishes always,
Angie

[HeatherP]

I'm glad that you're feeling better than before, Deus!

I personally haven't noticed any change of mood since being on Lantus. I'd have to say I feel better because I'm not having lows every day. Been on anti-depressants since I was 15 which was long before the diabetes hit and I just switched to Lantus last year.

There are side effects and risks to every drug we use, including aspirin. I think it's entirely possible that you (and a lot of other people) had a bad reaction to the Lantus. This is certainly something worth considering for all Lantus users, thanks for the info!

HeatherP

[Mick]

I was actually a huge mess the entire 12 or so years I was on "Human NPH" insulin during the 1990s. When I switched to Lantus almost 3 years ago (I got it before it actually went on the market to the general public in May of 2001), my whole world changed. I became a whole human again. The unpredictable hypos I'd experienced with the rDNA NPH vanished, and my mind came back into focus. I realized that I'd lost an entire decade of my life in a fog. Since then, I've lived a joyous, fulfilled and totally "normal" (whatever that means...!) life. I don't discount that some people might have some problems with ANY drug, but for me and many others I know, Lantus has saved their lives.

Michael

[Shalyndria]

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if you're nurses words had somewhat of a "placebo" effect on you Deus...

Just call me the devil's advocate!

Shy

[DeusXM]

I don't discount that some people might have some problems with ANY drug, but for me and many others I know, Lantus has saved their lives.

Good for you. Lantus is a very good insulin in terms of BG control, and if it works for you, by all means please stick to it. I'd imagine it's simply a minority who have negative effects...unfortunately, I happened to have been in that minority.

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if you're nurses words had somewhat of a "placebo" effect on you Deus...

It's a very good point, but the sheer difference I feel seems too extreme to be purely psychosomatic.

[Jon]

My son has been on Lantus for awhile now. I have not seen any negative effects. He actually seems to feel better and happier now that his bg is under better control.

[Teresa]

ive been on Lantus for 8 months now and havent noticed an difference in my mood at all!

[WiseWords]

Originally posted by DeusXM
...This encouraged me to talk to my diabetes specialist
about Lantus problems. Her first response was that there
weren't any significant problems with it. I then told her about
some of the side-effects I'd been suffering.

Her face dropped. It was then that she confided in me
some rather worrying things. Namely, Lantus is a
very new insulin and has not been properly tested yet.
She then went on to tell me that a significant number of
her patients who she'd put on Lantus had gone on to
develop depression, which disappeared almost immediately
after they went back on to isophane.

She put me back on isophane. The transformation has been
frightening...
...I went back onto isophane a few days ago, and I'm just
astonished by my mood...
Whatever it is, I simply haven't felt better now that I'm
back on isophane.
Thank you.

That is certainly notable.
It is also notable that your doctor, at first, indicated that
there were no problems with Lantus, but then, admitted
that through her own personal experiences, with some
patients, there were indeed problems from Lantus.

The problems that occur in such situations, I believe, are that
doctors are afraid to speak out against the accepted norm.
Ask her if she is going to submit a report of her findings to
one of the British medical journals or medical associations?
I bet she's not.

This phenomenon is not listed as a side-effect of Lantus
on their website, although many side-effects have been
reported on various message boards. As your doctor noted,
it is new and not fully tested.

I am also somewhat surprised that she put you on NPH,
which is shorter acting than Lantus. I would have thought
that Humulin U would be a better alternative.
If you have any problems with unexpected lows because
of the times that peaks occur with NPH, ask your doctor
if she has experience with Humulin U?

You might also try to see if there is any way for you
to submit a report about this effect with Lantus to an
official medical organization, or even to Aventis .

[mg_2204]

... Perhaps doctors believe that what we don't know can't hurt us? They often give me that impression anyway.

Fantastic Deus that you feel so great now. I'm very happy for you!!!

Marie

[webpundit]

Deus, your post was pretty edifying, as it was terrifying. I've been on Lantus for nearly 9 months now, and luckily I'm among those whose mental condition was not affected by this insuling. However, I will say that my blood sugar levels are much more in control and the sickening hypos and hypers that I kept having while on a 75-25 insulin regimen are a thing of the past.

Hopefully, I will remain unaffected by Lantus. However, I'm glad that I learnt of its possible side effects because I will have a reason in the even that I do end up getting any sort of mental problems. Also, I'm going to try to ask my doctor about this and learn more about the isophane insulin you were talking about. (at the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, what is isophane anyway?)

[zookeeper671]

Isophane insulin is an intermediate-acting insulin with time of onset of 2 hours and duration of 24 hours.

Best wishes,
Angie

[Oradev]

I was on Lantus for about 9 months and got off of it because of those symptoms (depression, fast heart rate, confusion). I was then on NPH for about 4 months or so and could not control my blood sugars. So I went to the Joslin Diabetes Center and told them I needed help. When I told them what happened with Lantus they told me the same thing. But my endo really looked into the problem (thank God). He came to this conclusion. He said that my last H-A1C while on Lantus was around 5.5, which is good, but maybe too low. He also said that since I was experiencing so many lows (around two a day), the reason why I was having those adverse effects were because I was in a state of hypoglycemia for such long periods of time. And since I was unaware of alot of the lows, my body started to react in those ways. I have to tell you now that I am on Lantus again and it has not caused me any problems yet. I am on a different dose now and I'm using a different carb/insulin ratio too. I guess I will just have to wait and see if what my doctor said was true or not.

[rzrbks]

Oradev makes a good point.

I do not think Deus was having all this "In His Head."


And as HeatherP points out:

There are side effects and risks to every drug we use, including aspirin. I think it's entirely possible that you (and a lot of other people) had a bad reaction to the Lantus. This is certainly something worth considering for all Lantus users, thanks for the info!

But I Know that trying to keep my readings above 90/5 and below 150/8.3 instead of the 70/3.8 to 110/6.1 I was keeping them at has made me feel a great deal better. Physically, mentally and emotionally.

Thanks for the Info Deus. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the mental side of things.

[DeusXM]

My control's kinda been shot to **** now I'm back on the isophane, having to relearn all the ratios again, but never mind

Still, I'm using quite an interesting approach to iso now. Instead of doing the full wack of 20u in the evening and then running the risk of hypos in the night and highs the next afternoon, I'm now taking just 10u to keep me regular in the night and then another 10u the next morning so the day's pretty standard too.

Still having a few problems with swinging bg but it's nothing I can't get a grip on.

Incidentally things seem to be taking off quite fast. Joe has written to a major consumer TV show who may be covering Lantus now as a result. We're also writing off to Diabetes UK, the main charity here, to raise awareness, and meanwhile, my diabetes nurse is very rapidly turning into a case co-ordinator and is now getting e-mails from a variety of people with similar symptoms to me and Joe. Things are starting to get interesting...