[soso]

It is true though, back when I could eat nuts I ate a ton of them ground up every day and never gained weight..My theory is that you can do high fat lower carb or high carb low fat...it's high carb high fat that make weight control hard IMHO..
ss

[BriOnH]

I can't comment on Atkins because I don't know much about him or his diet.

What I do know about Bernstien is he belives in the "law of low numbers"; Where if you only eat 10g of carb for a meal and you under or over estimate insulin dose, it takes very little insulin or carb to get you to a normal range easily. In todays world of "Precision amongst bigger numbers" it's true that when you are off, it may be more difficult to correct a low or a high, but with the precision of grams of carbs to insulin units it is much easier to be almost just as precise as with the "Law of low numbers"

For those interested here are my notes on the Bernstien CD's
~ denotes my comment. Sorry if this seems unreadable. Many points are arguable, but you must remember, treating your diabetes is a personal choice. Bruce Lee founded a martial are call "Jeet Kun Do" the premise of this martial art is to take the fighting skills that can be used sucessfully by you against your opponent. Obvioulsy the moves used by a 6'4 250lb guy will usually be much different then a 5'6" 140 lb guy. Speed, muscle, mind, spirit also requires individualistic fighting techniques. In what I have dubbed "The Tao of Diabetes", I believe these same principals apply for treating your diabetes and Bernstiens teachings are a great arsonal to know.

Bernstien Notes
Was put on low fat high carb diet it _ was an extreme ~ hypos were to be avoided and so was fat
Mathmatics of the disease
Protienura and mucular edema was reversed his neuropathy stayed and was not reversable
Why isnt neuropathy reversable?
Medical writer before MD
Diabetics to doctor themselvesBGL cecking was a threat to drs who treat compications
Cell therapy the same?
45 years old first year of medschool
The jeet kun do of diabetes
Normal BGL around the clock
most diabetics loose teeth by 40 ~ i dont believe this
1500 protien spillage down to 160 ~ 150 is normal
claims 100% of his pTients have soriescis
All records from every dr
Diabetic fatty liver
Protiens do not go through the kidneys due to charge? Kidney damage is reversible
83 is normal BGL in healthy people
4.4 and 4.8 normal A1C
Nerve cells dont require insulin most body cells do
The liver destroys insulin ~ does it destroy it in non diabetics?
This happens the most in the morning when you get up. Hence dawn phenomenon
Very detremental to the lantus study. He claims that the clinic trials gave more insulin then neccessary. He gave an example of a healthy man that was given 70u of R IM and
It lasted a week because of the lump of insulin. I personally find that hard to believe.
Amalyn made by beta cells also makes you less sensitive to glucagon – also made in saliva
Anything that extends the gut releases glucagon ~ the chinese resteraunt effect ~ called this because chinese resteraunts seem to give you much much more then you can eat and when you do eat it and lets say that it is cellulose rich it will raise BGL because of the stretch of the stomach which in turn releases glucagon
Need to test this theory on myself
Claim all are 1u:8g or 1g:5mg/dl but then claims that 1g raises may raise you only 4g. This guy is not always consistant. Also claims that you shouldnt give more then 7u is the max for any shot also you cant predict when the insulin is going to start or going to stop or its absorption rate especially when you give large doses of insulin ~ you have got to be kidding me.
IM shots to get you at your target in about 1hr. These shots do have problems you dont always know if you hit IM. These tails can be risky as well. Wait 5hrs after IM shots to avoid bad hypo ~ the tail is still there
Never seen a long term diabetic that doesnt have gastroparesis ~ wrong
Glutol great for hypos. Real fast i think this is the concentrate i got in med office in danville
Fat doesnt make you fat, wont cause heart disease and carbs dont make you higher ~ this guy is getting nuts
Olive oil with rum to gain weight _ didnt work ~ he didnt explain what did
low carb higher fat works to not get you fat because less insulin means more lipolysis - Insulin halts lupolysis.
Vegas nerve - biggest nerve ~ look it up - important to erections
Exaling should slow heart rate - if not low you probably have slow digestion or impaired - changes in heart rate variation between inhaling and exhaling should be 50-75%. If heart rate is under 30% there will be bad digestion problems. This also mean the branches of the vegas nerve which are required for many processes
RR study ~ investigate
Gastroperieses ~ wtf it is such a common theme is it true? I dont think it is
Dinner digestion for people in general is slow
Claims dinner time meat is bad

[REDLAN]

The permise behind the Atkins Diet is not reducing calorie intake, but rather restricting carb intake.

it may not be the premise behind the diet, but independent studies have shown that people eating high protein diets in particular, actually eat fewer calories than those on high carb diets...

ergo atkins works because you eat FEWER calories.

Eating large quantities of protein is not good for you either - while protein can be converted to glucose and also to fat, the body has to deal with the nitrogen, which is toxic. the liver converts the excess nitrogen into urea, which is then excreted by the kidneys - if you leave urine lying around the urea will break down into ammonia , which has a very pungent smell (babies nappies often smell of it), and in the middle ages was used for dyeing.

Pushing lots of urea thru the kidneys can lead to kidney damage (cat's often suffer kidney problems due to their very high protein diets). Diabetes doesn't do good things to your kidneys, and it seems sensible to me to ensure that you don't go giving them a hard life by scoffing lots of protein as well.

the alternative is to eat a diet very high in fat, and before people start claiming that it was very close to an ancestral hunter gather diet - this is actually a myth, most hunter gatherers ate/eat diets high in carbs (actually proportions are not too dissimilar to modern dietary recommendations). I guess the only person who can claim an ancestral high fat diet is Bluesky with his inuit heritage - which may be why carb restriction has worked well in his case (apologies if I have made assumptions)

And I am still bemused by how anyone can think that pushing your body into producing ketones can be good for you. Isn't it in fact very bad for you?

our bodies are designed to burn glucose (it doesn't matter whether we get that from carbs, or it is created thru gluconeogenesis) - the glucose metabolic pathway is the most efficient way of utilising energy - the waste products are CO2 and water - burning fats does not yield anywhere near as much energy and it leaves a toxic byproduct behind (ketones), which can only be excreted relatively slowly (lungs/kidneys) - in a normal person ketones are only produced during starvation.

I still don't understand how adopting a diet that convinces your body that you are in fact starving is good for you?

(this what fuels the weight loss in uncontrolled diabetes - and I don't remember this as being a very healthy period of my life)

[Doug]

Originally Posted by BriOnH

I can't comment on Atkins because I don't know much about him or his diet.

What I do know about Bernstien is he belives in the "law of low numbers"; Where if you only eat 10g of carb for a meal and you under or over estimate insulin dose, it takes very little insulin or carb to get you to a normal range easily. In todays world of "Precision amongst bigger numbers" it's true that when you are off, it may be more difficult to correct a low or a high, but with the precision of grams of carbs to insulin units it is much easier to be almost just as precise as with the "Law of low numbers"

the math behind the law of low number is a accurate.

And its common sense that if you are guessing a number between 1 and 1000 and you are guessing a number between 1 and 50 your chances of being within 2 is greater on the second version.

Anytime anyone makes GLOBAL statements like everyone, always or ALL. Its almost never right.

The approach and tone is still a big problem for me as is the overwhelming negative tone of the book.

[BriOnH]

Originally Posted by Doug

The approach and tone is still a big problem for me as is the overwhelming negative tone of the book.

I can't speak for the book yet, but must tell you that you would be wise to listen to what this veteran diabetic has to say. I can almost promise you, you will take away a better understanding of our disease.

[princesslinda]

I am currently reading the revised "Diabetes Solution" and am amazed by what this man has managed to do. While I find it hard to wrap my mind around eating that way, he has certainly proven that this way of eating has worked for him and there are many others who can attest to the same thing. I think this book has plenty that any diabetic, T1 or T2, can learn and benefit from. I'm hoping to get the willpower to try this lifestyle, at least for a while, and check my own physiologic responses to it.

[JediSkipdogg]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

And I am still bemused by how anyone can think that pushing your body into producing ketones can be good for you. Isn't it in fact very bad for you?

Ketones ARE NOT harmful at all. Ketones are a byproduct of two processes happening in the body....

1) The process of the body losing weight. They are produced as the body burns fat for energy. With a lack of glucose for energy the cells tell the body to break down fat. This fat is then pushed into the cells via insulin for energy. This process is safe, although has a discrepancy as to how fast it can be done.

2) The process of the CELLS having a lack of glucose. The cells sense they need energy. However, there is a lack of insulin in the bloodstream to push the glucose into the cells. The cells do not realize that there is a lack of insulin, therefore they think there's a lack of glucose. In this instance, they tell the body to start breaking down fat. This process then adds more glucose to the bloodstream, however, it's still not being pushed into the cells. Eventually the bloodstream becomes highly toxic. This toxicity is enough that as the blood passes through the organs it starts to break the organs down destroying them. This is diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). This process is harmful and extremely deadly if not treated.

There is ONE test to distinguish which one is happening. The simple blood test. If ketones are present with a high BG, then most likley the body is going into DKA and insulin is needed ASAP. If ketones are present with a normal BG, there is no harm done to the body.




I'm curious on what Berstein's feelings are about Symlin. Since diabetes also do not produce amlyin back in his original days his idea would make sense. However, now, 20-30 years later we have a synthetic version of amylin that can help to eliminate the peaks that his diet basically encourages doing.

Also, what are his feelings on CGMS devices? We didn't have those then so people didn't know when they were rising. Now we do, although not perfect, but very beneficial to many.

[slipperyelm]

"Anything that extends the gut releases glucagon ~ the chinese resteraunt effect ~ called this because chinese resteraunts seem to give you much much more then you can eat and when you do eat it and lets say that it is cellulose rich it will raise BGL because of the stretch of the stomach which in turn releases glucagon
Need to test this theory on myself"

This has always piqued my curiosity too--the Chinese restaurant effect-- blood glucose raised as a result of eating a large quantity of any food, even high cellulose, low carb food. I think the Bernstein example I read of this online (some of his book is available to read free) was in a young Type 1 who was a competitive swimmer. She had a habit of eating a whole head of lettuce before races and would find her BG elevated even after a swim. Supposedly, the stomach stretch due to the whole head of lettuce triggered that glucagon release. (Is that what it was? Glucagon? That makes sense, but I thought it involved one of the other pancreatic hormones that counters insulin. I forget).

Hey, just joking, but does this mean one could treat a hypo by wolfing down a bunch of celery or head of lettuce?!?

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the results if you decide to test this on yourself. Maybe I'll do it, too. Yeah, I could eat a head of iceberg lettuce...I think. I'm Type 2 though. Don't know if his explantaion would be different for type 2s than 1s.

BTW, I am so suggestible about foods, that I got some pecans to eat as a result of reading about eating nuts in this thread!

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

Ketones ARE NOT harmful at all. Ketones are a byproduct of two processes happening in the body...

I agree. As long as the bg stays under control...

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

I'm curious on what Berstein's feelings are about Symlin. Since diabetes also do not produce amlyin back in his original days his idea would make sense. However, now, 20-30 years later we have a synthetic version of amylin that can help to eliminate the peaks that his diet basically encourages doing.

Bernstein advocates that Amylin helps reduce the strength of insulin to help fine tune bg in a non-diabetic. Normally glucagon alone is too strong and Amylin helps reduce the effectiveness of glucagon according to Berstein.

Originally Posted by slipperyelm

"Anything that extends the gut releases glucagon!

Now that I've listened to Bernstein's explanation of the restaurant effect it makes sense the way it is explained. I also would like to verify this effect with my own body.

[quote=REDLAN;198650]it may not be the premise behind the diet, but independent studies have shown that people eating high protein diets in particular, actually eat fewer calories than those on high carb diets...

ergo atkins works because you eat FEWER calories./QUOTE]

I don't agree with your statements whatsoever. I've read the Atkins books and his diet plan does depend on a lack of carbs, not calories. If you are low-carbing on an Atkins diet, what exactly are you replacing the carbs with? Lard???

As far as nuts go, they are full of fat. Perhaps eliminating carbs while introducing large amounts of fat in it's place can help to control bg, but in terms of weight loss, it's the calories that count, IMO...

[soso]

As to the chinese restaurant effect...every new year I go to Vegas for 4 days and STUFF myself silly twice a day..low carb high carb...see food...eat it! I virtually never over eat the rest of the year. Funny thing is, I never have high blood sugar there (perhaps I should move there..lol) highest I have had is 9. I can see that it would take a long time for the food to leave my stomach under the circumstances..I absolutely distend my stomach...it's disgusting to watch....hahaha so maybe that's one physical failing I don't have... I was always a pretty big eater before diagnosis, in terms of volume.
ss

[BriOnH]

In the CD's he says that if you put rocks in your stomach (What's funny is I could totally see people tha rag on Bernstein, take this comment literally) it will increase BG. The simple fact of

Stomach expansion --> Causes alpha cells to excrete glucugon --> raises BGL (via Glyogen -> Glucose)

[FTW]

From the little I've read, I understand Bernstein advocates high fat, normal protein, very low carb. I'm fine with the concept. I've just started the book, The Diabetes Diet, and one thing he mentions is that it's harder for the body to process fat calories, so while each gram of fat has 9 calories, the body uses 3 of those calories just to metabolize the fat, (so net would be 6 calories.)

I doubt that I'll ever go to his extreme of 30 g of carb per day, but I do agree I can probably learn a lot from his ideas.

As far as the nuts go, that's really intriguing. I started 1200 calories a day in early Dec., (soon after diagnosis), and my weight loss has been going at a pretty good clip.

A lot of that time I was eating 1/4 cup of almonds a day.

In the last week I haven't been eating almonds and the loss seems slower. I may have to have almonds for my snack tonight!

FTW

[karen]

Still time to register for his teleseminar tonight.

Please join Dr. Bernstein tonight, Tuesday, February 27, 2007, at 7:00 p.m. CST on his 4th Free Live Teleconference. It's not too late to get in on the call.

Registration and the call are free, but you must register.

Please note, if you miss the call it will be available in the next couple of weeks at diabetes911.net.

[BriOnH]

I hope my question gets asked .

I will be listening tonight.

[REDLAN]

Cyborg, I'm confused...

I don't agree with your statements whatsoever. I've read the Atkins books and his diet plan does depend on a lack of carbs, not calories. If you are low-carbing on an Atkins diet, what exactly are you replacing the carbs with? Lard???

As far as nuts go, they are full of fat. Perhaps eliminating carbs while introducing large amounts of fat in it's place can help to control bg, but in terms of weight loss, it's the calories that count, IMO...

so which is it?

weight loss depends on removing carbs and is independent of calories consumed? Or as I was trying to say is dependent on calorie intake?

is it me or are these 2 statements contradictory?