[Cyborg]

Apparently like there has been some research on how high-fat diets cause diabetes...

[mzizgayle]

hmmm, but what about us strange ones whose diets did not have high fats

[DeusXM]

hmmm, but what about us strange ones whose diets did not have high fats

Arguably there are several different types of T2 - as well as those who are obviously caused by poor lifestyle choices, I'm also convinced that there are cases where a genetic element plays a part.

I'm glad I read the article though. I was about to post something that a high-fat diet tends to be high in calories (and thus equates to 'poor lifestyle choice) but it's interesting to see there's something specific in fat that causes disruption to insulin production.

It certainly seems to fly in the face of the theory that human beings need to eat a high-fat, low-carb diet to avoid diabetes. In fact it makes a lot of the 'truths' behind low-carbing suddenly look just plain wrong.

[sweetcheeks]

lmao, well this is another fine example of

"what in the he!! am i suppose to eat?" syndrome

one minute this is bad, the next its not, etc etc etc...over and over again....

explain this to me............ what can i eat, that wont eventually cause some kind of deadly disease or kill me in the long run??

get my drift, i refuse to worry over every little nit picky thing that goes into my mouth, ie, aspartame, sugar, this, that, blah blah blah

i'll live till i die, and not a minute less, not a min more


not frustrated, but cant stand scientist sometimes thinking they got the answer to everything.


lmao

[notme]

I guess the research is important and we need to find out why so many get diabetes. My diet was no different than most people growing up and certainly was not high in fat.

I am glad they continue to do research to discover why so many of us get diabetes. However, I sure wish there was one answer instead of lots of guesses. sigh......

[moorejames]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

...
It certainly seems to fly in the face of the theory that human beings need to eat a high-fat, low-carb diet to avoid diabetes. In fact it makes a lot of the 'truths' behind low-carbing suddenly look just plain wrong.

Deus,

I realize you're a type 1, but how do you reconcile your anti low-carb with the fact that "going by the meter", higher carbs leader to higher BS?

I'm a non-insulin type 2, I can't bolus for it. I also can't maintain any control if I'm eating any breads or pastas.

I'm serious here, what exactly would you suggest I do? Go on insulin so I can eat carbs again?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-carb. I eat a lot of veggies. A lot. I seem to do OK eating veggies (well, except for potatoes).

T1 and T2 are such different diseases. It's the thing I find most frustrating about this board that the conversations end up being so co-mingled.

While I think your stance on things is probably spot on for T1's, I frankly don't think you have a clue when it comes to T2. Nor, probably, should you.

[Injecto]

Originally Posted by sweetcheeks

I'll live till i die, and not a minute less, not a min more

I just like that line. Cool.

Originally Posted by moorejames

I'm a non-insulin type 2, I can't bolus for it. I also can't maintain any control if I'm eating any breads or pastas.

I'm serious here, what exactly would you suggest I do? Go on insulin so I can eat carbs again?

My diabetes educator has said to many of the T2s in the courses I've been on that they should think about going on small amounts of insulin to help control spikes. There is just such a stigma and fear of taking shots (that you get over rather quickly I might add) so that many T2s don't take insulin. Perhaps covering your carbs, at least the ones you "know" give you trouble (breads/pastas), with some insulin is a good idea.

[mzizgayle]

MooreJames I do understand your frustration as I am a non-insulin type 2...(wow we have a new classification lol). I have had days where I ate the same thing, in fact most of the time I do, yet at times the same foods can affect me so differently.

It does get bad (and yes it sucks to have to spend this kind of time just to be able to eat) when I have to keep track of carbs/protein/fibers to be able to decide if I can eat something extra and then wonder what it will do to my numbers - to have to check portion size etc.

[sweetcheeks]

Originally Posted by notme

I guess the research is important and we need to find out why so many get diabetes. My diet was no different than most people growing up and certainly was not high in fat.

I am glad they continue to do research to discover why so many of us get diabetes. However, I sure wish there was one answer instead of lots of guesses. sigh......

dont get me wrong, they need to do the research, but these "studies" as they call them, are not scientific, just that studies, i just wish they would stop publicating it to the effect of just because its a study so many people thinks its a proven fact and can live by it to be the truth and dont understand "studies"

and the diabetes meds/insulins have came along way since the beginning of time, so yes im glad they are there and they have ways for people to continue to live normalish lives

but when it comes to foods, it just doesnt make sense to keep saying well if you tomatoes or drink tomatoe juice, you have a less risk of cancer because of the lycopene

ok scientist, are you saying if i dont like them or dont drink it that im gonna die of cancer?

my granny always watches the news and she takes everything to heart, bless her heart, but if she heres one things wrong for ye, she gets on the phone and says, you better stop eating that, it will kill ya! lol


sorry i sound so negative today... i havnt went to sleep yet since getting off from work this morning at 8am lol

[mark-TN]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

It certainly seems to fly in the face of the theory that human beings need to eat a high-fat, low-carb diet to avoid diabetes. In fact it makes a lot of the 'truths' behind low-carbing suddenly look just plain wrong.

Sorry Deus, I do not see where in the article that the researchers studied a low carb diet. There is a huge difference between a low carb, high fat diet, and a high carb, high fat diet. The diet they where studying was a "high fat Western style diet." This would be a diet high in processed carbs and unhealthy fats and as this research in this article shows may be the reason for the explosion in diabetes around the world today.

Mark

[moorejames]

Originally Posted by mzizgayle

MooreJames I do understand your frustration as I am a non-insulin type 2...(wow we have a new classification lol). I have had days where I ate the same thing, in fact most of the time I do, yet at times the same foods can affect me so differently.

It does get bad (and yes it sucks to have to spend this kind of time just to be able to eat) when I have to keep track of carbs/protein/fibers to be able to decide if I can eat something extra and then wonder what it will do to my numbers - to have to check portion size etc.

Yeah, I'm just in a pissy mood today for some reason. It's actually beautiful out today (a rarity in Ohio) so maybe that's it. I'd rather be outside enjoying myself.

[moorejames]

Originally Posted by Injecto

My diabetes educator has said to many of the T2s in the courses I've been on that they should think about going on small amounts of insulin to help control spikes. There is just such a stigma and fear of taking shots (that you get over rather quickly I might add) so that many T2s don't take insulin. Perhaps covering your carbs, at least the ones you "know" give you trouble (breads/pastas), with some insulin is a good idea.

If it comes to it, I'll have no problems moving to injections.

I seem to be in really good control these days and I'm not too terribly cranky about the things I can't eat, for the most part.

[jen_slc]

Originally Posted by sweetcheeks

dont get me wrong, they need to do the research, but these "studies" as they call them, are not scientific, just that studies, i just wish they would stop publicating it to the effect of just because its a study so many people thinks its a proven fact and can live by it to be the truth and dont understand "studies"

and the diabetes meds/insulins have came along way since the beginning of time, so yes im glad they are there and they have ways for people to continue to live normalish lives

but when it comes to foods, it just doesnt make sense to keep saying well if you tomatoes or drink tomatoe juice, you have a less risk of cancer because of the lycopene

ok scientist, are you saying if i dont like them or dont drink it that im gonna die of cancer?

my granny always watches the news and she takes everything to heart, bless her heart, but if she heres one things wrong for ye, she gets on the phone and says, you better stop eating that, it will kill ya! lol

These studies truly are scientific studies... the problem is when the general media gets a hold of the results and relays them to the general public - then they get misinterpreted and taken personally, when in reality, study results are based on a population, not an individual. So in a study where they found a decreased risk for prostate cancer associated with increased lycopene (tomato) consumption, the result that they're reporting is an overall, general risk in the population. Whether tomatoes have a positive effect on your own personal prostate cancer health is always questionable.

I agree with you, though, life's too short, I eat what I want (mostly) and I'm healthy. There are studies out there investigating everything under the sun, showing results in both the positive and negative, so what do you trust? It can be very difficult.

Just remember that studies are not proof, just supporting evidence or suggestions that X is a risk factor/protective for Y.

[DeusXM]

but how do you reconcile your anti low-carb with the fact that "going by the meter", higher carbs leader to higher BS?

Simple. Non-diabetics have spikes in BGs with no health problems relating to that. A temporary increase in BG is not harmful. The idea that BGs need to be kept rigidly between 4-5mmol/l, 24/7 is incorrect, and control that rigid offers no advantage over BGs that range between 4-8mmol/, provided the more elevated BGs only last a couple of hours at most.

I'm serious here, what exactly would you suggest I do? Go on insulin so I can eat carbs again?

Well, I'm not an authority on T2, but I think an increased amount of exercise and medication are options available to you. However, I'm not knocking low-carb diets in general - I'm knocking the particular paleodieter school of thought that says we should eat large amounts of protein and fat.

While I think your stance on things is probably spot on for T1's, I frankly don't think you have a clue when it comes to T2.

Neither do I. This is part of the reason why I think I've only posted about 4 times in my 5 years on this site in the T2 forum. I also agree with your idea that T1 and T2 are essentially completely separate diseases which just have similar symptoms.

There is a huge difference between a low carb, high fat diet, and a high carb, high fat diet. The diet they where studying was a "high fat Western style diet."

Indeed. This was what I initially thought, since a high carb, high fat diet would also be high in calories. However on reading the article I noted that it was specifically a component of the fat that was affecting insulin production, not the carbs.

I still stand by my idea that a high fat diet is generally a diet high in calories. The same also goes for a high carb diet. Both apparently are responsible for increasing the risk of developing diabetes, which seems to add credence to the point I've made all along - if your diet is high in calories, then you're going to run into problems. Unfortunately telling people to generally reduce their carb intake seems to generate too much of a sense of needing to take personal responsibility. People prefer 'quick fixes' and the idea that if they cut something very specific out of their diet, their problems will be solved, instead of taking a holistic approach to the matter.

Again, I've demonstrated on this very board that a high-carb diet doesn't mean a predisposition to diabetes or obesity - otherwise everyone in China and Japan would be fat and diabetic.

[BlueSky]

Once again, the journalist has jumped to a conclusion which is not supported by the research in question. The title of the article ...

Researchers Discover How A High-fat Diet Causes Type 2 Diabetes

... is misleading. According to the copy, the link they discovered is to MODY, which is a small subset of T2 diabetes. Most T2 diabetics don't have a problem with "failing beta cells" in in the early stages. Insulin resistance causes beta cells to produce copious amounts of insulin. And beta cells only start failing much later on. The research did not attempt to explain what causes insulin resistance in the first place. So the reported causative link in the article title simply doesn't make sense. The article title and body copy are about two quite different things.