[mariwood]

I have tried the low carb diet, the no carb diet. I do not get terrific results from them. Furthermore, I feel awful on them. What works for me is a moderate low carb diet. There I will remain. I think my insulin requirements are different as well. I am very insulin resistant. I need to know what works for me and why. Its a long lesson I am still learning. But I find the moderation theory works best because I have a limited budget, I cannot afford expensive food, I need cheaper menus and that means carbs. Yesterday I could not find a package of meat at the supermarket under $6.00. When I follow my diet faithfully my bs are very good and very consistent. It only takes a small mistake or one good cheat and I am right into the 300's. I can go from 106 to 306 in four hours and it only takes a large portion of protein or a small portion of extra carb. I cannot eat perfect every day. I am only human. I hope I can avoid complications that kill or cripple. Who knows? I am just curious to know if anyone else out there uses a moderate approach to carbs?

[Harold]

Been there and done that also, but not for trying to lose weight. Yes a moderate carb, fat, and protien diet is what I strive for. Found that having a veggie for breakfast is difficult. Maybe I should have a glass of tomato juice with breakfast, but should that be counted as a veggie or fruit? Anyway trying to balance every meal is a real pain and not always practical. So instead I try to balance it over the course of 2 or 3 days. I would not recomend trying it this way for anyone seeing readings of 170 or more frequently. One of those things you can get away with if your in good control.

[DeusXM]

As I've mentioned on this board before, I take a moderate approach to everything I eat. It seems to me that in the messy fight between high-carb and low-carb, everyone seemed to forget normal-carb. I'm a T1 so I guess I've got a lot of flexibility though.

[TAutry]

mariwood,

Let me join the Amen corner.

I have found the moderate approach to be the best for me, too. Weight loss isn't an issue for me, but good diabetes control is. I read recently that the recommended daily carbohydrate allowance for a 2000 calorie diet, for a non-diabetic, is 300 carbs per day. I have found that, based on my lifestyle and activity level, about 150-200 carbs works for me.

I agree with Harold. I haven't found a way to include a veggie with breakfast either. I also, don't believe that an exact balance at every meal is necessary.

I firmly believe that by keeping my blood sugar under control, exercising regularly and taking my insulin, I will minimize my risk for complications. I also believe that a similar plan will work for many diabetics, both type 1 and 2.

Travis

[HeatherP]

I never really thought about it, but I guess you could say I follow a relatively moderate-carb meal plan. I don't like to inject a lot of insulin so I try to keep my carbs down.

Bkfst: 26 gms/carbs
L: 15 gms/c
D:average around 40 (but can differ greatly sometimes)

[Willow]

Does it matter if you have a lot of insulin? I mean, when non-diabetics eat a lot of carbs their pancreas produces the insulin they need. So does it make any difference if a diabetic has a lot of insulin & a lot of carbs & keeps bs good? I was just wondering...am not thinking of doing it.

[damianc]

Insulin can be seen as a storage hormone. When you're trying to metabolise a lot of glucose, be it from carbs, protein, or glycogen related, insulin helps store this glucose as glycogen and then fat. Cholesterol is also involved in fat transport, and there appears to be a very strong relationship between insulin levels and cholesterol levels. As insulin resistance increase, cholesterol appears to increase. High insulin levels result in insulin resistance. An analogy would be that cells are simply unable to cope with levels of insulin so stop listening.
My biochem's not so hot, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that insulin is also involved in triggering or working with many other metabolic storage systems which could easily be unbalanced.
All things in moderation applies to insulin also.
Non-diabetics can also be strongly resistant to insulin, it simply doesn't show up in glucose tolerance tests. But if tested for levels of insulin it'll be obvious. I guess they just have bomproof pancreases

[mariwood]

I had a great day today. I was able to keep on my moderately constructed carb diet and am still in the process of lowering my overall bs. Today I did not have one reading over 180, for me that is big news. Plus, I had a wasa cracker with my egg and a wasa cracker and banana with tuna for lunch, and pasta for dinner. So this is going to work as long as I really accurately count the carbs and do not go over my limit of 30-30-45. This is doable for me. I did cardio glide today and one long walk before the pasta dinner. When I was low carbing, I would just not be satisfied with the menu. I am getting ready to take my evening Lantus injection and I have been able to reduce that amount.
I am not an expert on insulin, so I cannot answer any questions.
All I know, is a radical diet and strict control with a super low bs is just not possible with my love of food. I would be kidding myself to think I could survive past a few weeks. It's good to know I have company out there. There is a big trend in no carb and low carb, and those people are pioneers in many ways.
But I am always the moderate. I do like to put a limit on carbs when the bs are high for other reasons than meal blunders.
And thats enough suffering for me. To be able to eat normally again is a blessing. I felt like a failure at first, but apparently there is something about my body and my insulin resistance and my insulin response where low carb was not helping much. I just cannot understand it because so many others have big success with it. Maybe more will be studied and understood regarding this national trend. And thank you thank you thank you for all the low carb options available in the supermarket now. God bless Dr. Atkins!

[DeusXM]

Erm....not necessarily true. Whilst insulin plays a role in the storage of fat, it's not as potent as initially believed. Insulin resistance also doesn't particularly feature in T1s who eat a balanced diet and exercise regularly. Insulin resistance DOES occur in T2s, but that's rather obvious - T2 is effectively a disease whereby the individual becomes resistant to insulin, and needs to suppliment their own insulin supply either with OHAs or insulin, or alternatively by going on a restricted diet and high exercise routine. There's a strong relationship between cholesterol and insulin levels, because the majority of people with T2 have high cholesterol levels, which suggests that high cholesterol is a symptom, rather than a cause, of insulin resistance.

A well controlled T1 will put on weight simply because insulin will make you put on fat - see the thread in the Type 1 board. However, this is the same for any individual, diabetic or not. Provided you eat a balanced diet and exercise regularly you shouldn't put on weight - after all, with insulin injections you're simply replacing what your body would be producing anyway - 'a lot' of insulin is the amount of insulin you personally need that causes a hypo, and the amount of insulin required varies according to personal weight, food consumed, exercise performed and personal metabolism.

A diabetic who takes a lot of insulin and a lot of carbs WILL put on weight simply because they're taking in far too many calories - instead of eating to keep their body going, they're actually eating to counteract the insulin, which is completely wrong since you should take insulin to counteract what you eat. In other words, the nonsense about diabetics should stuff themselves with loads of starchy carbs is plain rubbish. An ND who eats loads of carbs will obviously have a pancreas that will produce enough insulin to cover this, but they'll put on weight. This isn't because of the volume of insulin, it's because of the number of calories. It's the same for a D too.

Bottom line - don't inject insulin and then eat an appropriate amount to stop a hypo - work out what you're eating, then take the appropriate amount of insulin to stop a hyper.

[TAutry]

Deus,

You make a good point about calories. Even with all the hype regarding low fat in the 90's and now low carb, here in the US, as a people, we are fatter. Since 1990 the average weight has been going up. A recent article in Men's Health suggests that far too many people are overindulging in supposed low fat, low carb, sugar free and no sugar added foods. Rather than using those foods as part of a well-constructed eating plan, too many of us are using the 'low' as an excuse for gluttony.

No matter what the current hype says, to lose weight one must burn more calories than one ingests. Reduced caloric intake and/or increased physical activity are the only proven methods to do that.

Travis

[HeatherP]

Bummer Travis, but unfortunately you're right (and Deus, too )

[mariwood]

This is my thread about moderation in diet. How did it get to be about insulin and weight gain? I am interested in hearing from diabetics that are successful with a moderate carb diet. If you are having success with the ADA diet and a bit of moderation, I am interested in hearing how you tweaked the diet to work for you. I have previously stated that I do 30-30-60 menus and exercise daily. This is the first week for me and so far so good.
My bedtime bs was 123. I have been able to cut my insulin requirements down too! For the past several months I have been going to bed with bs in the 200's! My doctor will be shocked when she reviews my diary! I am a little worried about going low at night, but I have to get over that. Is 123 ok at bedtime? I guess its different for everybody anyways.

[damianc]

I don't believe the glucose/insulin relationship is strictly linear. As body glucose increases there will often be a disproportionate increase in insulin requirements. Agreed, this shouldn't really happen with a balanced calorific intake. Moderation in CHO intake should lessen the chance of even slight insulin resistance.
I don't think we need to make any distinction between T1 T2 and ND here. Insulin resistance CAN occur in any group.

I've only been reducing my CHO intake over the last two months or so, and have not really yet settled into a rhythm in terms of diet. My average reading is about 90 (5 mmol) and I prefer not to let it exceed 6 mmol (108) where possible. I think as time goes by you get to recognise more patterns and are able to fine tune your diet and insulin.
Provided your basal dose is not being used to lower BS you shouldn't risk night time hypos. Ideally a basal insulin should suffice for basal metabolic requirements and no more. Any need to reduce high sugars or to cover meals and snacks is more easily covered with smaller quantities of faster acting insulins.

[DeusXM]

Sorry Mariwood....umm...success story with a moderate-carb diet? Well, I eat what most people would consider a 'normal' diet ie. moderation in everything including carbs.

Last A1C - 6.2
BMI - 20.3
Last major hypo - Um....haven't ever actually had a major hypo.

Sound like success?
Works for me anyway

[TAutry]

Mariwood,

It appears to me that you are making progress. I would consider 123 to be fine at bedtime. Although, last night at around 11, I was at 137. Due to severe thunderstorms my bedtime was delayed and around 12:30 this morning I began to feel 'low'. I tested and it was 64. Why did I drop so? I suspect my body reacted to the extreme weather.

I have had a number of overnight hypos during my 14 years of diabetes. I have never had anything that I consider severe, even with blood sugar in the low 40's. I normally wake up, realize what is happening and take care of it. Like last night, if I am low I find it difficult to go to sleep.

As I have stated in other threads, the moderate diet approach works for me, when combined with regular exercise and my insulin. Have I been successful? I think so. I haven't developed any complications. My last A1c was a 5.9. I normally wake with bs between 80 and 115. When I get a cut, it heals faster than many non-diabetics I know. My overall health is good and I maintain my weight well. Best of all, I feel good, physically and emotionally.

I actually believe that I am in better condition because of diabetes and my approach to it than I would be if I wasn't diabetic. So, as weird as it may sound: I am healthier because of diabetes.

As to your situation, keep at it since it appears to be working. As the cliche goes: 'Rome wasn't built in a day'. Be thankful for small improvements and don't sweat the minor setbacks. Set an overall goal and focus on it.

Keep us posted on your progress. One of the nifty things about Diabetesforums is the non-judgemental, support and encouragement that we offer to each other. We all, to one level or another, are dealing with similar issues. We are here for you.

Travis