[Deager]

Mav,

I am so at a loss for words. It is so obvious that Collette needs professional help....good professional help. I don't understand the UK system. Why aren't they doing more for her? Why does she have to wait a year?? Can you afford to go to a private doctor? Are you close enough to our border to seek help here? She is screaming for help and no one is answering her but you and how could you know what to do??? She needs to get to the bottom of what she is rebelling against. At least she calls you in time cause she obviously wants to live very much.

I don't know what to say to you to help you. I think you are doing all you can. Your support is a major thing in her life and you are at the end of your rope. It seems impossible, but you have to keep going for her sake.

You need someone close to you to talk to....a friend or relative.....or a support group if there is one there. There's got to be someone there to help you....to talk to. To listen. We can only do so much here.

I feel for you so much. I hope things get better for you soon. You are in our thoughts.

Diane

[Dewey]

Mav,

I am deeply sorry to hear this. That therapist should never have made a statement like that to Collette! Like Diane said, Collette is crying for help and that therapist isn't giving it.

I also live in the US and am not certain about the available resources in the UK. While there is not much we can do here, please know that we are listening and we care very deeply for both you and Collette. You are both in our hearts, thoughts and prayers.

[Deager]

Ack....sorry.....even tho I know you live in the UK my brain said Canada. So of course, that wouldn't help much. I'm just grasping for things you can do I guess. It is such an awful situation.

I'll keep thinking.

Diane

[PepsiLvr]

Mav,

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. Collette is so blessed to have someone like you who cares so much. Unfortunately I am not from the UK and I'm not sure what your exact location is. I've tried to locate some resources for you and this seems to be the best even though it's a bit general. Hopefully it can point you in the right direction. I found that if you use the search in the upper right hand corner you can get some revelant results.

http://www.ukonline.gov.uk
http://www.direct.gov.uk/Homepage/fs/en

Again, hang in there and god bless!

[Willow]

Collette & Mav

Can you not ask for a second opinion?

I think everyone has the right to medical treatment & it is appalling that you have to wait a year. I would ask for a second opinion because, as we all know, doctors do think differently about things.

Best wishes

[HeatherP]

I'm so sorry, Mav.

I'm sending a PM.

HeatherP

[Musqua]

Mav & Collette :

I am sorry that you are going through such a rough time. People are right when they say that depression come with diabetes. I went through a major depresssion a couple of years ago and again two years ago when I was diagnosed . At that time I did'nt know there were groups around like this one to help. I have found alot of help & guidance from these individuals here. I would do the exact opposite of your wife I would miss my inslulin for days and binge then wonder why I was getting sicker. My dtr & friends were a great help but I never really told my hsbd what I was doing. I always told him everything was fine but then one day he realized tht things weren't fine and he found help for me. I still go around thinking why me ,don't I have enough other health problems . So if you can hang in there Collette things will get better but it may take a while & Mav kudos to you for being so loving, ther are alot of partners who would just turn a blind eye to everything going on around them. So please give each other a BIG HUG and remember that we are here for you both.

Heather W.
(Another Canadian Friend)

Canadian Girls Rock

[SunniD]

Wanted Mav to read this article and see if it applies to their situation at all. Sometimes a simple change can help and some people react to the insulin they're on with depression.
Not knowing what insulin she's on at all , you might ask an endo if switching the insulins might be a viable option due to the side affects she's having on what she's on. Read this article and let me know what you think-it was posted in the IDDT.
I am not advocating pork insulin above human insulin but sometimes a switch from one human insulin to another might make enough of a difference. I am currently using Novorapid.
SunniD
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


GE insulin, hypoglycaemia and depression – a connection?


A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

Colleen Fuller, Canada

Two weeks ago I switched to pork insulin, and there are two main changes in myself that I've noticed. The first is that I haven't had diarrhea for the first time in 3 years. That might not be associated with the insulin – and it's only been the last several days, but I notice it, and I'm watching. I know that diarrhea can be a complication of diabetes, but I never had experienced it on an on-going basis until I began using GE insulin, and now it seems to be changing.

The second big thing is that my mind is energized. I just don't know how else to explain it. When I switched to Humulin in 1996 I experienced six comas in a period of about one month and was hypoglycaemic most of the time for about six or seven months. My behaviour definitely did change and the one who felt the brunt of it was my husband. I became extremely aggressive and I also began accusing him of trying to control me and disempower me. This was based on one simple fact: I had no control! I could no longer tell when I was hypoglycaemic, but John, my husband, often could at that time. By the time I began showing symptoms I was long gone and helpless. So John would say "You need some orange juice" and I would begin screaming at him: "how would you know, you're not a diabetic". I was terrible, even telling him on several occasions how much I hated him. It was awful, awful, awful and I was miserable.

I began seeing a psychiatrist in 1997 and she diagnosed me with clinical depression. There was a lot in my own past that also came up during this time, including an ex who had committed suicide in 1974. But as I look back on it now, my view of this period is changing. One of the things I complained to the psychiatrist about was my inability to focus on anything. I was finishing a book, but I was really struggling with it. She said that was a symptom of depression. The doctor linked my depression to consistent hypoglycaemia. At that time I had depleted any reserves of glucose in my body - next to nothing in my muscles, organs or brain. This, she said, affected the seretonin levels in my body. Ergo: depression. The answer? Zoloft. No one recommended I stop taking GE insulin. But for a long time I refused to take an anti-depressant. I just didn't want to take any more drugs - I couldn't handle it. GE insulin was enough!

By then after blood tests showed that no, I wasn't miraculously producing my own insulin and that was not the reason for the problems I was having - my endocrinologist wanted to switch me to Humalog and to an insulin pump. You have to understand that I was desperate, and also I now believe that my brain wasn't functioning properly - otherwise I would have began insisting on being switched back to animal insulin. (I unquestioningly accepted that I "couldn't" take it any longer because it was being withdrawn - something completely out of character. I didn't even research the subject, and research is what I do for a living.)

Anyway, I did accept his advice and switched to Humalog and to the pump. After two days on the pump I was still hypoglycaemic all the time. I remember sitting at the table in our dining room all alone, in tears. I felt overwhelmed with diabetes and I thought "my life used to be more than this".

Diabetes had always been there, but it had never dominated my life – my life was made up of other things like love and work. My logic then proceeded like this: I don't want this life, but is there another life for me? Is it this life or no life? I felt there was no other life, and that I would forever more be poking my fingers every 30 minutes and chugging apple juice, waking up surrounded by paramedics and that I would lose my autonomy and independence. I wanted to die - I don't know if I wanted to commit suicide, but I definitely didn't want to live my life any longer.

I didn't tell my husband I was feeling this way, but when I saw my psychiatrist I told her and she seemed upset, and really insisted that I begin taking the Zoloft. So I did, because I was upset, too. Suicide was something I'd had to deal with in the past, and so it frightened me to think of myself veering in that direction. She also counselled me to give the Humalog and the pump a chance. These things all probably helped me: the Zoloft, my psychiatrist and the insulin pump, not to mention my family and my husband.

Then about six months ago I began to experience this inability to concentrate or to focus on anything. I don't know exactly how else to describe it. But I'd stopped seeing the psychiatrist by then, and I'd been off the Zoloft for a while. I didn't want to get back into that routine, I guess I just wanted to get on with my life. So I ignored it. But it got worse and worse, and ultimately this is what forced me to finally switch back to pork insulin. I'd been reading quite a lot about GE insulin and its possible link to depression in some people. I could feel myself moving in that direction again, mainly, I think, because of this focus thing. I can't write when I can't focus. I'd been missing deadlines during this period, which is really terrible.

Lo and behold! I have been more productive in the last week than I have been for months. It might have nothing to do with the insulin, but that's the only thing that's changed for me. I feel energetic and very, very focused.

Perhaps that sounds all airy-fairy, but it's how I feel. When I told my endocrinologist, who I credit with saving my life and who I greatly admire and like, that I wanted to switch back to pork, he was surprised. He didn't even know animal insulins were still available. But he said the only important thing is how I feel. My blood sugars have always been excellent, both on animal insulin and on GE insulin - except during that bad period when my HbA1C's were extraordinarily low. (That's when they began testing me for endogenous insulin.) So, he said, as long as my overall control is good, he himself is not wedded to the GE insulin. "I'm not a salesman for the drug industry," he said.So there's my story with insulin and depression. I'd never been depressed before I went on to GE insulin, or at least I'd never been diagnosed with it. I feel that by switching back to pork insulin I've been able to avoid taking an anti-depressant. I feel better and more energetic and more focused. I should also just add that the other night I woke up sweating and hypoglycaemic. I was so happy! This hasn’t happened for quite a long while. I trotted downstairs and gulped down a glass of orange juice!

I will never, ever go back to taking GE insulin.

[mav]

Thanks for that

It would be applicable if only she would take her insulin in the first place.

[lgvincent]

I thought they had stopped making the beef and pork insulins.

[SunniD]

The pork is now on the market in Canada again and the beef has always been on the market in England. The states ship over the necessary beef organs and then a glitch prevents them from shipping back the beef insulins to sell in the states.

I've been helping out a researcher in Florida who's working on the glitches in the system so diabetics who need these insulins to live can have them as it's really hard to import them. The researcher is 63 and got diabetes at the age of 3 and still doesn't
have too many complications to speak of. She's only been on pork or beef and she is a truly remarkeable woman.

In Canada, you have to get a special letter from endo sent to the Federal Minister of Health or Health Canada stating you need beef insulin and then they will help clear it so you can import it to Vancouver, B.C. by a case. Then you have to ship it to where you live. Long process, slightly costly and by the way there is No chance of mad cow disease in beef insulins. That is a myth. They are very purified and a highly filtered product.

SunniD

[lgvincent]

That's interesting. However, I found I was just as depressed while using the animal insulins as I am now with the Humulin.

[SunniD]

That's interesting. However, I found I was just as depressed while using the animal insulins as I am now with the Humulin.


__________________

Igvincent, you are probably right about that. Any insulin is a
foreign body put into our body and bodies will all react uniquely.
Sooner or later we all will probably notice depression symptoms.

For Mav, I believe your wife is truly smart and her body is telling her what will help if she's hesitating on taking the insuliln. I was
like that when I was on Humulin R and N and my windpipe was collapsing and everytime I sat down or layed down my bgs went
to over 20 mmol/L. The only time I felt good was the half hour before I took my shot so I would prolong taking it for as long as possible.

My sister's body was craving salt before her mult-organ shutdown
and not just an extra sprinkle from the salt shaker. She was literally eating it out of the box. When she passed out her bgs were 23.0 mmol/L and her Na and Cl were extremely low. No wonder she craved the salt. She lost her pancreas and adrenals
and became a type one at 50.

My body tells me when it's out of wack. I used to get headaches when my bg hit 8.0 mmol/L because I kept my bgs so low most of the time. When my Na and Cl are low I get a slight craving for salt.
I get nauseaus and slightly dizzy when my Na and Cl are one number below the normal limit. The symptoms are probably
caused from the diuretic I'm on but the craving is the body telling me there's an imbalance.

I'm not a doc but think it would be worth discussing with Colette's endo. You'll never find out if another insulin helps if you don't try one. Aventis is coming out with a new short acting insulin soon again so there will be another one on the market and Detemir is the newest long acting insulin that's coming out that's not as acidic as Lantus so improvements are coming in the near future.

SunniD