[sparrow1]

And there's another side to this coin. Not that anyone has done this on this forum, but last night I came under severe criticism for looking after my diabetes. A guest in my house has had D for 20 years, never tests and has an A1C twice a year. He ate everything that was on the table. When I told him that I test 7 times a day, record everything I eat, etc. he said That's obsessive!" Now THAT was judgmental.

[cheryl]

I understand what you were trying to say Redland, sometimes when someone is in sort of denial or not ready the last thing you want to hear is kind of like mean or straight to the point, I am highly sensitive, I am glad i was on my other forum when i was starting on the turning point of my life. If I would of started here I would of been so turned off, but that is the honest to god truth, and just how I feel...it is a little more straight foward a lot here, and way like talking like a strict doctor.....in my opinion,

I think what Red is trying to say tough love does not work with everyone, some but not everyone, if you choose to give advice or support to people then, you need to honestly look at how you do and what type of person this really is. Not everyone can handle the tough love approach.....

I can't i get upset, it makes me cry, and I don't think that anyone is mean that is the way certain people are but not everyone can handle it, and some can it depends on the person.....

Not trying to ruffle feathers not all are tough love.....and tough love is good but not for all especially at the beginning but some are at the beginning....

Cheryl

[andypoo]

I went through the whole gamut of trying to do what other people were doing or at least that's what I thought. No matter what I did "D" was always there,telling me "you can't do that." You're a bad person for eating that cake" "You can't eat this,because you're different then everybody else" "No,No,No! Put that down! don't do this ,don't do that! You're sick!" That was just me telling me. But,I had plenty of others telling me also,that I shouldn't do certain things,because "you have DIABETES" Until, it completely molded and changed me into something other than what I wanted to be. I became afraid of everything,,and felt GUILTY about everything that I did that was not in the realm of "taking care of myself" I was so busy "TAKING CARE OF MYSELF" that I forgot to live life to the fullest,I put up a protective shell around myself,and let "D" run my life. When I did "break out" for a time,I was made to feel ashamed of myself,but through it all I still managed to do some of the things I love, go on float trips down the Current River,go to concerts,partys,going to wineries,and even trying out the wine,even though I managed to do these things, I believe I stifled myself from my fullest potential. I wouldn't change my life for anything,but if I had to tell someone now how to live there life having diabetes, I'd tell "GO FOR IT,BIGTIME! GRAB ALL THE GUSTO YOU CAN!" Don't limit yourself,you can do anything you want and enjoy,just do it,don't let anyone tell you that you can't,never let anyone tell you how to live your life! It's YOUR life,no one else's!

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by cheryl

Not trying to ruffle feathers not all are tough love.....and tough love is good but not for all especially at the beginning but some are at the beginning....

Cheryl

Yes, but I think the biggest thing is interpretation of what people say (or misinterpretation, as the case may be). We can't always tell that someone is just expressing personal experience or if they're giving "tough love," unless they say so in their posts. Likewise, we sometimes don't know what others need when they ask for help, so we just try to help as best we can. I am probably guilty of the "tough love" approach at times, but it's not that I intend it that way.

As said before, it's all subject to interpretation. This place has a lot of lovely people and while we may sometimes disagree or come across "wrong," I truly don't think any of it is intended to be harsh.

[REDLAN]

I intended my post to be a bit controversial, and I hope that I haven't offended anyone - I just wanted to raise some points I obviously felt quite strongly about - I didn't realise quite how much until I wrote it.

and it's OK, I don't feel ganged up on, I was expecting my post to raise some quite strong reactions. It's good that we can have this kind of discussion without losing our cool.

I'd like to take up cheryl's point about "tough love." I wholeheartedly agree that this doesn't work for everybody. In the early days when I first diagnosed, because my control wasn't spot on I got the shock tactic lecture - and it wasn't as though I wasn't trying - for me this was a big turnoff - especially when I was diagnosed the treatment regime was very inflexible - I guess if I had been diagnosed today I would have been more inclined to travel down DeusXM's route.

I would like to directly answer Who?'s points - I have known quite a few people who have subsequently died after an illness, and I have been with a few people when they actually died. From what I have seen, people get old, they get sick, and then they die. I actually assumed that this is what will happen to me - I will get sick, and then I will die. I personally can not understand this notion of trying to live as long as possible - I assume that I will feel the same about getting ill and dying when I'm 55 as when I'm 65 or 75. We could get into a philosophical debate about this, but I don't feel that it would be helpful. I just accept that other people do not feel this way.

the other point which I wanted to challenge was the one about denial. It's also a medical viewpoint - people who don't look after themselves must be in denial. I never ever felt like I was in denial - it was just that I made another choice - for me that choice with my philosophy on death and how I felt about my life at the time was completely rational.

I know that when people made the comments about denial it was not intended in any other way than to show sympathy and be supportive to the poster. For me, however I feel that the use of such a term devalues the choices that I made, and in some way is like saying "you aren't being rational" - I know this isn't what is meant, but this is what it feels like.

Dewey made the point that the posts can be open to misinterpretion - and I'd like to emphasise that I am not in anyway pointing fingers.

On a different tack there are people who don't take care of themselves, that we would very much like to start because we care about what happens to them.

what I'm trying to say is that shock tactics and saying they are in denial may not be the best way to reach them - it did nothing for me in my journey.

[someone]

Originally Posted by DeusXM

Because whilst I'm always aware that I have diabetes, I've never let it stop me from doing anything. The way I see it, as long as I've got glucose tablets in one pocket and insulin in the other, I've got all my bases covered. I'm not saying it's easy. On the other hand, I also don't understand why managing diabetes should be so phenomenally difficult.

Couldn't agree more... very well said.

[Who?]

Redlan;

I share your horror of "living forever."

My concern was that you could have a stroke at 45 and live to 55 (for example) and then you would have ten years to reflect on the fact that if, perhaps, if you hadn't been indifferent to caring for your diabetes, your last ten years might have been better. That is what we all want.

Perhaps such a thought will not ever enter your head, I don't know.

I wish you luck and hope you can arrest, if not reverse, whatever damage has occured during your years of lax care.

[REDLAN]

thanx Who?

the thing is I've been incredibly lucky - I have no complications from diabetes after 20+ years of poor control - although I would like to think that it's down to my devil may care attitude - it's nothing more than blind luck really.

I'm living proof that complications aren't just down to A1C's - although that isn't an invitation to neglect oneself mind you.

What's done is done - I don't look back and think if only - and I'm not frightened of what might happen - although the only way to know is to experience it - the chances are that I will feel just the same as the next person.

I was reading a story in the doctors the other day about the woman who pressured the NHS into prescribing a new anti-cancer drug for women with early stages of breast cancer - the drug had been shown to prolong remission. The woman had been diagnosed with a very aggressive form which meant that surviving her cancer was very unlikely. She's now in remission, she knows that the cancer will return, but it has bought her an extra couple of years to be with her foster son. She views herself as being extremely lucky.

I think the lesson this woman gives us is that even in the midst of tragedy people seem to manage to find something positive in the experience, that makes life worth living. I hope that when my time comes I can be like her.

[VinceF]

Quantity does not equal Quality

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

I guess if I had been diagnosed today I would have been more inclined to travel down DeusXM's route.

I think Deus's post hit it right on the head for me.I've accepted diabetes into my lifestyle and have not let it stop me from doing anything. Anger and denial can both lead to bad choices.

[flash]

"Little bit of Soul", by the Music Explosion. Was that 1969 ?

Redlan your logic blows my mind .......

Flash

[LancetChick]

Originally Posted by flash

"Little bit of Soul", by the Music Explosion. Was that 1969 ?

Redlan your logic blows my mind .......

Flash

What does that mean?

[jleonard]

More than anything, what I got from the original post, and what I belive, is that there are two diabetic lives for all of us. Pre complication and post complication. Regardless of control, one day complications will appear. And no matter how long you were able to buy time, it won't matter because on that day, life will change forever.

I have had diabetes for 15 years. Only 2 years ago I started having retinopathy, higher BP, etc, Nuropathy, etc. It has totally changed how I see life.


I used to think "I can slide here" and "sneak this there". Not anymore. Emotions are easy to hide when things are going OK and we're proud of a low A1C. But try having that and still having major health problems. We humans like to believe that we are in the drivers seat. Guess again...

[princesslinda]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

Please, please, can we stop making judgements about people who don't look after themselves. Just because we can't understand someone's choice doesn't mean that it isn't valid. Instead of holding them up as an example, can't we just be sad when they die?

As one of the "judgemental" posters here on the forum, I feel that telling the story of my mom's journey/struggle with diabetes has merit. Sure, it would be great to tell everyone newly diagnosed and not sure they want to do what needs to be done "don't worry, do what you think best and all will be fine," but that's just not the way it works. I think those of us who have seen the complications of diabetes brought on by lack of good control (whether because of denial or choice, the results are the same) have the responsibility to share their experiences on the off-hand chance that someone out there may be more inspired to take better care of themselves. As a T2, I actually have the choice of ignoring my diabetes and could have several years without problems, but the consequences of my actions will definitely catch up with me...and even though it would be because of my choice, my family would also have to suffer along with me, giving them the right to judge my actions.

I was truly devastated by my mom's death, so sadness doesn't even cover it. Twelve years later, I still miss her daily....But I feel that recounting her situation might help someone else avoid her fate...yes, it's tough love, but i'd rather be scared into taking care of diabetes that to coast on until it's too late...and there is a point when it becomes too late and you can't undo what's happened. result...

Redlan, I understand what you post was about and the point you are making is a valid one. Perhaps tough love is not always the way to go, but most of us need a kick in the pants on occasion to keep us on the straight and narrow.

I'm sorry that you don't agree, but I intend to keep sharing my story in hopes that it will be a reminder or a wake-up call to others....as well as to myself to do what I need to do to have quality and quantity of life...both are important to me.

[GhostRydr]

I've not chimed in till this point, as I'm new to Diabetes, and family members in the past that did have it were during my youth and I wasn't that aware of what was going on, till now.

Everyone has a different persepective, everyone has a different way of dealing with things that happen. For me, it was initial shock, then anger at having Diabetes. That lasted about 2 days. Then I got myself maddog mean, dug in, found this forum, talked with trusted others around me (thanks Shanda) and found I could do this, and make the changes.

From my perspective, and mine only, I see some of the stories here shared, not to be 'tough love' but to not only share the grief of losing a loved one, but to also perhaps say "hey folks, we're more than just pixels upon a screen, I care and here is something that could happen if we aren't mindful".

Of course I could be all wrong, but this is my take away. I do understand that everyone views things differently, and if i'm on or in chat, i'm always willing to lend an ear to listen up at any time.