[REDLAN]

I'm afraid that some may find this post challenging.

but I feel I have to answer the posts that go my friend/father/mother has died of diabetes and didn't look after themselves, please make sure you look after yourself.

I can only imagine what it must be like to lose someone to a debilitating illness, and how difficult it is to come to terms with those feelings, especially when we see them not looking after themselves.

This is followed by several posts about how they must have been in denial of their diabetes.

I can't answer whether these people were in denial, I don't know them well enough, but I do know why I didn't take care of my diabetes for 20+ years, and why I've decided to take care of my diabetes now. I have seen it from both sides.

I was never, never, never and I repeat never in denial about my diabetes - I knew I had diabetes, I knew what I was supposed to do, I knew that there was a risk of complications - I'd had the lectures - if you don't behave yourself and live like a monk your feet will drop off, you'll go blind etc. etc. When I was diagnosed the care regime was strict and inflexible - and I did it for about 3 years.

And I asked myself did I want a life of restrictions, don't drink, don't have cake, fingerprick tests that left bruises and scars on your fingers, and maybe a few extra years tacked on the end. I hated that life - it wasn't a life at all in my view - a few extra years of being miserable wasn't a price worth paying - least not when I was 19 and at university.

So I vowed that diabetes came second - at no point would I say "I can't I'm a diabetic" - and so I didn't - I tested when I felt like it, ate what I wanted, and drank and did whatever I wanted. And started smoking as well.

I knew there was likely to be a price to be paid, but in my book this was a price well worth paying.

regrets about that life?

Not a single one - even if it does mean losing a few years (actually I have no idea how you would even know how many years you'd lose)

So I got to 39, and my poor control started to catch up with me - I was feeling tired alot of the time, I got thrush and athletes foot, and had quite alot of time off sick. All those years I ran an A1c of around 10.5.

That was when I decided to start actually controlling my diabetes, not because I'd accepted I had diabetes, but because I wanted to have energy and feel well.

Having done the control stuff I know what it's like from the other side, and I can tell you not bothering is a **** of lot easier and less stressful.

There is always a price to be paid - I have much much better health and energy, but I also get

bad moods, bouts of obsessional behaviour, relationship difficulties with my wife, and it gets me down at times.

I filled out a coping with diabetes form - the same as 6 months ago - and I've marked as a minor problem things like "feeling burned out by the constant effort needed to manage diabetes"
which weren't a problem 6 months ago.

In short there is an emotional cost to good control - I've had to sit down and re-evaluate what I do and I've got a better balance now.

I'm still determined that at no time will I ever say "I can't do that I'm a diabetic." - just that I will make sure I test as well.

so here's the question...

If you had my life, what would you choose?

Please, please, can we stop making judgements about people who don't look after themselves. Just because we can't understand someone's choice doesn't mean that it isn't valid. Instead of holding them up as an example, can't we just be sad when they die?

[Dewey]

I'm sorry that you feel you've had a tougher go of it with caring for yourself than not, but I don't consider people expressing their opinions as being "judgmental" (myself included).

Each of us have different views on life, Diabetes, etc., and we're all entitled to those views. I always try to say that this is the Internet, and things will not always sound the same when read by people all over the globe as they're meant when written by the person posting them.

Life experiences have personally contributed to the way I feel about Diabetes. Admittedly, I have a harder time understanding how it would be easier not caring for ourselves, especially because there are worse conditions out there. An example of this is that when I was diagnosed with Diabetes, I was losing my grandfather to Lung Cancer. So, from my point of view, what he had was a he** of a lot worse than anything I was going through....some may not share my opinion, but it's that personal experience that led to my views on Diabetes, etc. Am I saying your views are wrong? No. I'm just saying you have your feelings based on your experiences, and I have mine, and other people have theirs.....and we're all entitled to them.

[Penny]

Good job Dewey! I was trying to think of a way to say the same thing. And Redlan, I respect your opinion too, and your right to post it. That's what this forum is for.

[caswellhb]

Goodness!!!! How on earth can you write these things? I am so sorry that you find it easier to live like this.
I have lost two parents to diabetes and one of them died horrifically.
I am a little surprised that you would raise this objection. However, as a psychologist, I accept that you have the right to your opinion.
Everybody deals with diabetes in their own way and I cannot see that your way should be placed above and beyond the ways that other people deal with it.
I hope your way works out, I truly do! I am grateful for other opinions and all the care and support I can get.

Heather.

[DeusXM]

This might not be appropriate, but I don't see how having good control and having a life are mutually exclusive. Much like yourself, I've never said "I can't do that because I have diabetes." I eat what I like, I drink what I like, I essentially do what I like. I have done ever since I was diagnosed.

I've spent all day in bed after spending the last 24 hours drinking whiskey. I've dived the Great Barrier Reef. I ate a 16-inch pizza for a bet. I've eaten doner kebabs and lived to tell the tale. I've stumbled round Amsterdam so stoned I thought the whole world was tilting to the right and if I let go of the table leg we'd all fall off the planet.

Basically, I've done a lot of things that I'm proud of and quite a few that I'm not proud of. Why am I telling you this? Because whilst I'm always aware that I have diabetes, I've never let it stop me from doing anything. The way I see it, as long as I've got glucose tablets in one pocket and insulin in the other, I've got all my bases covered. I'm not saying it's easy. On the other hand, I also don't understand why managing diabetes should be so phenomenally difficult.

The fact that my last A1C was 6.7% and I've a BMI of 22 suggests that reasonable control and general health are not always mutually exclusive of 'living'.

Obviously yes, I am sad when people die of complications relating to diabetes. I look at them and I always worry that one day that might be me. But (and as horrible as this may sound) I actually draw some strength from when people die from complications. Because invariably, they didn't look after themselves. They had A1Cs in the 9s and 10s, or even worse. And because of that, I think 'I can stop this happening; I AM already stopping this from happening'.

I don't know. Maybe I've just been lucky. But having diabetes simply doesn't seem to be that big a deal for me, and I guess I just don't understand why there seems to have to be a choice between 'living' and not treating it, or 'existing' and treating it. Perhaps one day that might happen, but until then I'm not going to worry about it too much.

[MJB]

I think that virtually everyone, diabetic or not, does things that are not in their best health interests.

How many people routinely cruise through the fast food drive thru for a burger, fries and a coke and really believe they are doing what's best for their body?

How many live in LA or a similar city and truly believe that the air they breathe daily is healthful?

Life is about choices, compromises and risks versus rewards. And for all of us those are individual decisions.

[caswellhb]

I think it does need to be taken into consideration that the latest Post was about a T2.
I think Redlan's reaction was to this post.
Personally, I wish there had been something like this forum available to my parents. The warnings may have saved their lives!

Heather.

[LancetChick]

I don't think the comments were judgmental as much as they were an expression of "why"? If I had been in your shoes, I wouldn't have let myself go, and neither would I have become a slave to my disease. Neither option was acceptable to me when I was diagnosed 20+ years ago, so I found a way to get both freedom and tight control. And despite the huge efforts I've made to educate myself, I'd call my own diabetes management easy now. That was always my goal, and it never once occurred to me to let myself go. I can't imagine taking pleasure in my garden or my animals if my body were gradually deteriorating with no end in sight, not to mention the horrible feeling of hyperglycemia. I don't believe that any diabetic is condemned to choose between spartanism and death.

[caswellhb]

Well said Lancetchick!

Heather.

[E-NICE]

I lost my mother to the big D 17 year ago. Yes it hurts and make me sad and angry sometimes and she did not take good care of herself. But I also take that as all the more reason to take care of myself to if not avoid her fate at least slow it down as much a possible.

[DeusXM]

Personally, I wish there had been something like this forum available to my parents. The warnings may have saved their lives!

That's true, and this brings up another important point. I've nothing but sympathy for those who've had diabetes for so many years, because the only reason I'm able to live my life the way I want is because we've only had the tools I need for a decade or so. I was so lucky being diagnosed just 9 years ago because I've always had the options of MDI and blood glucose testing.

If you've had diabetes for far longer than that then I totally understand why for many people it was a case of 'what's the point?' They simply didn't have the plethora of options to have their cake and eat it (literally) like I've always had. It's the people who get diagnosed now and seem to think they have to live like a monk for the rest of their life that I don't understand.

[notme]

Absolutely Deus! I was diagnosed in 1986 and I went through many years of "why try". I was put on a diet of carbs and low fat. I was given NPH and REG and got keto sticks and a meter. A very slow unreliable meter.

I also don't believe that people are judging. I think they are saying "there by the grace of God go I" and hope that all they have done to keep control will save them from the same demise.

REDLAN, I know that your must feel a bit ganged up on with your post. Please don't. You bring up many valid points and brought to the table a good debate. The people on this board are here to help. They are generally a kind a thoughtful group with moments of anger and frustration. I doubt anyone meant in any post to be judgemental, just saddened that someone died and hopeful that they have done enough to save themselves.

[caswellhb]

Redlan, we really are not ganging up on you. Just expressing opinions.
We all have different views and different ways of living our lives. Please accept our differences.

Heather.

[Who?]

Originally Posted by REDLAN

In short there is an emotional cost to good control -

I don't even know where to begin a response to your post, but I'll just make two points.

1. There sure is "an emotional cost" to a stroke, dialysis two or three times a week, no feet, blindness and so on.

2. You seem to be assuming that any (severe) consequences of your diabetes will be instantly fatal and having "lived a good life" as they say, you will depart and all your cares will be over.

That isn't often the way it works. Many have quite a few years to spend profoundly disabled contemplating their unwise (to use a euphemism) choices of earlier years.

I think I had better shut up now.

[Harold]

To many people it's not a matter of denial, but rather a resentment of diabetes. Having diabetes means you have to do a little more to take care of your health. No, it may not be easy, and nearly impossible for some, but for most it can be placed on a level with oral health and hygiene. In my opinion the Resentment of having diabetes causes the emotional difficulties and everything that leads to.