Mendosa - Is Diabetes Progressive

Dawn · #1 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 12:37 AM

I saw this article in David Mendosa's Diabetes Update and wanted to pass it along.

Diabetes - Is Diabetes Progressive?

Dawn

KickStart101 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 01:53 AM

Ya, I get those every mth. I didn't look at my e-mail yet.
There's nothing on yours. Is it supposed to look like that?

pepatrick · #3 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 04:05 AM

I agree with what the ariticle says..but in reality...I dont think anyone really knows. Medicine is science...Science is based on hypothesis....which is a bunch of educated guesses..Cancer is progressive if not treated..Diabetes is certainly progressive if not treated...but with the right treatment...it may not go away..but the long term damage can be reduced or eliminated..

Over the last 2 months since my diagnosis, I have read many articles on diabetes. I am definately no expert, but the more I read, the more I realize that the medical industry in large doesnt know either. I am sure there are specialists that no more than your average endo, but over all...they are clueless. This can be proven by reading some of the posts on this web site. The endos seem to give conflicting information about how to treat the disease.

My father is a type 2 for 35 years...he is 76...treats it with diet and excercise and has had no complications from it..His A1C is below 6... My grandmother died at 98 with type 2 and no complications...(or none that I was aware of)

I have read articles that tell of people that clinically do not have diabetes any more. I dont know how much of these strories I believe, but it certainly makes you question how much the medical profession really knows about this disease...

xMenace · #4 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 04:36 AM

Mendosa talks about progressive symptoms not a progressive disease. He never hits the accepted medical theories that as a type 2 your insulin production is decreasing and will continue to. You can't stop that with diet and weight loss.

But you can stop or control the symptoms, and for the progressive symptoms he's so correct. We have it in our power to maintain healthy bodies. I am halting/reversing my complications as many here are, as we all should be.

MJB · #5 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepatrick

I agree with what the ariticle says..but in reality...I dont think anyone really knows. Medicine is science...Science is based on hypothesis....which is a bunch of educated guesses..Cancer is progressive if not treated..Diabetes is certainly progressive if not treated...but with the right treatment...it may not go away..but the long term damage can be reduced or eliminated..

Over the last 2 months since my diagnosis, I have read many articles on diabetes. I am definately no expert, but the more I read, the more I realize that the medical industry in large doesnt know either. I am sure there are specialists that no more than your average endo, but over all...they are clueless. This can be proven by reading some of the posts on this web site. The endos seem to give conflicting information about how to treat the disease.

My father is a type 2 for 35 years...he is 76...treats it with diet and excercise and has had no complications from it..His A1C is below 6... My grandmother died at 98 with type 2 and no complications...(or none that I was aware of)

I have read articles that tell of people that clinically do not have diabetes any more. I dont know how much of these strories I believe, but it certainly makes you question how much the medical profession really knows about this disease...

That's the longest I've ever heard (35yrs) of a T2 going without meds and still be in control. Bravo!

xMenace, any explanation for that one? He sure seems to have stopped any progression. I'm not saying he is typical, probably far from it, but he is on no meds after 35yrs, wow!

pepatrick · #6 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 07:40 AM

I think eveyone is different...I may or may not have the same success as my father. What most of us...and including doctors go by are statistics. 18 to 20 million Americans have diabetes...our statistics are based on these number...As with all statics there are those outside the bell curve in both directions. Based on what I have read...many people do not control their diabetes to well. I suspect that a very large percentage of people do not control it well and the statistics show that those with diabetes are likely to die from it or complications. We have even seen posts from people on here admitting to not controlling their diabetes. Only in the last 30 years have we really got an understanding of the long term damage caused by high blood sugar. I beleive (and again..this is only an opinion)..with tight control the pancreas will not be taxed as much and therefor may not burn out as easily. This include excercise and tightly controlling blood sugar through diet.

In type 2 it is a metabolic disease...and many diseases are caused by nutritional deficiencies. With the right fuel, supplements and excercise and I think diabetes will be the least of our concerns.

On the other hand..lack of any nutritional control is what got me here in the first place. I love to eat...I travel quite a bit and had a huge appetite for good food. When I was diagnosed...it was time to read everything I could get my hands on. I love life way too much to have it taken away by this disease. So as long as I can...I will fight it...but I as of now...I am really more concerned about driving down GA 400 during rush hour (pretty much all day and night).

pepatrick · #7 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB

That's the longest I've ever heard (35yrs) of a T2 going without meds and still be in control. Bravo!

xMenace, any explanation for that one? He sure seems to have stopped any progression. I'm not saying he is typical, probably far from it, but he is on no meds after 35yrs, wow!

Actually he used to take insulin before meals...The only time he takes insulin now is at Thanksgiving and Christmas meals...other that...none at all..

volleyball · #8 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 07:51 AM

I thought that the pancreas reduced output was an aging issue. As a diabetic, we have a head start. But it doesn't mean that we cannot maintain a liveable level for the rest of a normal life.
One of the rise in diabetes is that people are living much longer so they naturally reach a stage where they would be considered diabetic.

xMenace · #9 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB

That's the longest I've ever heard (35yrs) of a T2 going without meds and still be in control. Bravo!

xMenace, any explanation for that one? He sure seems to have stopped any progression. I'm not saying he is typical, probably far from it, but he is on no meds after 35yrs, wow!

IMO you can have type 2 symptoms without being in steep decline as shown by that graph. Typically these people are grossly overweight but not necessarily so. Losing all that weight can virtually eliminate the condition. In reality, everyone's pancreas is shutting down. Given enough time, everyone would become diabetic. Some have steep declines, most diagnosed type 2's, and others have gentle slopes.

Said gentlemen have underproducing pancreases but with very small declines in production. Anomolies. There's no separate classification for them, and that makes generalizations impossible.

georgepds · #10 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xMenace

Mendosa talks about progressive symptoms not a progressive disease. He never hits the accepted medical theories that as a type 2 your insulin production is decreasing and will continue to. You can't stop that with diet and weight loss.

For those who'd like context, this graph is from Ian Blumer's site, FAQ #9

frequently asked questions

Alice · #11 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:01 AM

The article is certainly a "positive thinking & doing" message. But I take issue with him alluding to the fact that Bernstein is the only diabetic diagnosed in the 40's who has avoided severe complications...not quoting him, but the gist of what he said...again, he should have added that others have had success with healthy eating, exercise & medication...not following the severe low-carb of Bernstein.

I'm not a Bernstein basher...his overall message is good. But too extreme for me. I feel that Bernstein gets a lot of credit for common sense that many diabetics follow every day.

pepatrick · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:35 AM

Another thing to consider here...When on a strict diet of low glycemic foods, the pancreas does not work as hard. When a non diabetic eats a bowl of icecream they spike their blood sugar and the pancreas goes into over drive to produce insulin. Imagine a diet rich in proteins, omega-3s and low in carbs (atkins and various others)...for a life time..the pancreas might survive a little longer. Healthy life and avoiding diseases is a tough balancing act. The foods we love to eat (icecream and other sweets) are bad for us...The food we dont like is good for us...or at least food we dont like as much. I think most of us know this quite well...but we chose early on in life to neglect it...then we get diabetes. We pay for the indulgence.

My father was my age (42) when diagnosed...At the time he was overweight but not severly...6'1" and 240 lbs...at the time of my diagnosis I was severly over weight...6'4" and 292 lbs...and I am sure I was at least 20 lbs heavier, but losing a bunch of weight quickly was one of my symptoms.

In a way we have been given a 2nd chance to change (or atleast slow down) the complications from our glutenous eating habits.

georgepds · #13 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xMenace

IMO you can have type 2 symptoms without being in steep decline as shown by that graph. Typically these people are grossly overweight but not necessarily so. Losing all that weight can virtually eliminate the condition.

Two questions

1) do you have a reference for the above? I've seen this stated several times, but cannot find a study.

2) Is the critical difference the insulin release

TIA
--George

pepatrick · #14 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 11:13 AM

I think what the deal is...is no one really knows..Everyone is slightly different and is going to respond to treatment differently. What may work for one may not work for the other. The same prinicipal applied to cancer patients. Some people who get cancer treatment survive with no longterm consequences...others...well..I think you know...

slipperyelm · #15 (**permalink**) 10-03-2007, 08:56 AM

The Ian Bluming chart which has been posted is, according to the Bluming FAQs, based on UKPDS. Is that study not done on people with type 2 diabetes who eat the fairly high carbohydrate diet generally recommended in the UK? I mean, isn't the diet in the UK recommended for T-2s really just the same diet recommended for the general public. A generally "healthy," supposedly "well-balanced" diet? There is nothing about it that is different than what is said non-diabetics should eat, is there?

I have never had a C-peptide study to see what my insulin production is like, yet I suspect it is very high even fourteen years after diagnosis. The reason I think that is that when I took an insulin stimulating oral medication, I would have hypoglycemic episodes often. I took it at the smallest dosage available. This tells me my pancreas not only pumps out a lot of insulin, but still has capacity to do even more. I had to stop the insulin stimulating drug, because I was too responsive to it.

I truly don't think my phase II insulin production is in decline, I just have insulin resistance. I do think I would go into insulin production decline if I ate as many carbohydrates as I used to at the time of diagnosis. I had a very, very high carb diet, and really, I continued to eat high carb for the first several years after diagnosis.

Had I started low-carbing earlier, I think I would be better off now.

How much does a C-peptide cost test, folks? I don't think my insurance would pay for it, but I'd consider getting one when my budget has a little wiggle room if I could afford it. See, I have read many times that many type 2s produce way over the "normal" amount of insulin. It just isn't doing the job to clear glucose into he cells where it is needed. Am I the only one who has read that?