[brettruben]

To regulate the food intake human beings have 2 centers called feeding centre and satietary center. Feeding center stimulation leads to increased food intake and uncontrollable hunger where as satietary center stimulation causes cessation of food intake by inhibiting feeding center activity. There are some receptors called glucostats which gives response increase blood glucose content which occurs as soon as the person takes his meal. Glucostats excite the satietary center which inturn inhibits the feeding center.

But in diabetic patients because of deficiency of insulin hyperglycemia occurs which cannot stimulate the satiety center. So even though the food intake is normal the satiety center is not stimulated and feeding center is always active which lead to increase in the food intake and uncotrolled hunger leading to obesity. So diabetic patients are advised to take low calorie diet and sugar free drinks.

[pdxdennisj]

You make a number of statements that may or may not have a foundation in medical literature. There was no question. Did you just want to make the statements?

[davef]

Originally Posted by pdxdennisj

You make a number of statements that may or may not have a foundation in medical literature. There was no question. Did you just want to make the statements?

He has other posts of a similar tone. I reckon he found a text book and likes to cut and paste.

[fgummett]

Perhaps this is just spam but at least the title has it right, Diabetes causes obesity... NOT the other way around

[jkane13]

That's not 100% true either. They share some things in common, but neither "causes" the other. There is no absolute link to support saying either one causes the other.

[fgummett]

Originally Posted by jkane13

That's not 100% true either. They share some things in common, but neither "causes" the other. There is no absolute link to support saying either one causes the other.

Perhaps... but I feel the need to try and redress the balance where the medical establishment seems so certain that the cause and effect between obesity and diabetes has been proven... it hasn't

With that said, there IS biochemical evidence that fat-storage is strongly promoted by high levels of insulin... as seen in Type 2 and one of its main precursors, Insulin Resistance... especially on a high-carb diet.

[owlyn]

I am waiting for him to try to sell us something.

[PERKDOUG]

There need be no causality between diabetes and obesity. They are associations with the same underlying cause, that being over consumption of refined (fast acting) carbohydrates such as sugars, flour, rice, beer and other easily digested starchs in the western diet. Take obesity by itself, I challenge you to gain weight eating the Adkins induction diet of high fat, moderate protein and less than 20 grams of carbs per day. As for the type 2 diabetic or the obese who may read this post, reflect on the refined carbohydrate portion of your diet leading up to your condition. Put a pencil to it using a nutrition book. If you are honest in your analysis, as H. Ross Perot is known to have said "I think I see a pattern here." The pattern is simple: breakfast cereals, fruit juices, bread ,beer, candy, soft drinks, pasta, pizza, low fat milk, ect. In short, fast acting carbohydrates form a high percent of your diet. These "fast actors" cause you to eat more than you would eat on the Atkins protocal or any diet lacking them. Take them out of the diet and see the improvement. Easier said than done. I consider type 2 and obesity to be the end points on what properly should be called Carbohydrate Addiction. I have suffered from it myself and overcome it by simply limiting my intake of the "fast actors" resulting in the lose of 30 pounds of fat with no hunger during the process. Over time, your craving for the "fast actors" will decline. It is somewhat like curing an alcoholic but probably a lot easier.

I hope this post does not stir up unpleasant feeling. I wanted to express my opinion after much reading of the available literature and my personal observations.

[yannah]

Originally Posted by PERKDOUG

There need be no causality between diabetes and obesity. They are associations with the same underlying cause, that being over consumption of refined (fast acting) carbohydrates such as sugars, flour, rice, beer and other easily digested starchs in the western diet. Take obesity by itself, I challenge you to gain weight eating the Adkins induction diet of high fat, moderate protein and less than 20 grams of carbs per day. As for the type 2 diabetic or the obese who may read this post, reflect on the refined carbohydrate portion of your diet leading up to your condition. Put a pencil to it using a nutrition book. If you are honest in your analysis, as H. Ross Perot is known to have said "I think I see a pattern here." The pattern is simple: breakfast cereals, fruit juices, bread ,beer, candy, soft drinks, pasta, pizza, low fat milk, ect. In short, fast acting carbohydrates form a high percent of your diet. These "fast actors" cause you to eat more than you would eat on the Atkins protocal or any diet lacking them. Take them out of the diet and see the improvement. Easier said than done. I consider type 2 and obesity to be the end points on what properly should be called Carbohydrate Addiction. I have suffered from it myself and overcome it by simply limiting my intake of the "fast actors" resulting in the lose of 30 pounds of fat with no hunger during the process. Over time, your craving for the "fast actors" will decline. It is somewhat like curing an alcoholic but probably a lot easier.

I hope this post does not stir up unpleasant feeling. I wanted to express my opinion after much reading of the available literature and my personal observations.

not at all. I think you are right on. However, I got diabetes form a drug called Zyprexa, and I think that getting diabetes is kind of complicated. but also agree with you as part of the answer.

[EeyoreButterfly]

The Atkins diet is successful only because it eliminates an entire food group. Therefore people are likely to eat less since so many foods are off limits, which results in a lower caloric intake. Many people are not able to keep up with such a limited routine and will soon go back to their old patterns.

In 2006 a study was published of all commercially available diets and programs. Atkins was one of the diets studied. Do you know what it found? There was only one, I repeat, one commercially diet program in which participants were able to lose the weight and keep it off. It was not Atkins. It was Weight Watchers.

I do Weight Watchers and have had great success with it, as have many people I know. The key is that there are no off limit foods. Instead you are essentially using a simplified version of calorie counting that encourages you to make healthy choices. (Whole grains instead of refined, more vegetables, fewer processed foods, etc.) In the end, a diet that teaches you portion control and allows you to eat what you want in a smart way instead of blindly eliminating entire food groups is more likely to be successful. Research has shown this.

Recommending Atkins to a person with diabetes is irresponsible. Atkins can result in ketones because the kidneys must work harder to filter protein. This is very dangerous for people with diabetes.

Research has repeatedly shown that being overweight puts you at a higher risk for diabetes. Being overweight in and of itself does not cause it. There are people who are Type 2 who are not overweight, just as there are people who are overweight or even morbidly obese who do not develop it. That said, by being overweight you do put yourself at a higher risk than you would normally otherwise be.

As for diabetes causing obesity, this is the first time I have heard anybody say that. I don't think that you can draw a direct cause and effect relationship. There are plenty of people for whom diabetes does not equal obesity. In fact, since diet is one way Type 2 is controlled, many Type 2's actually lose weight after being diagnosed.

In the end, we cannot take personal responsibility out of the equation when it comes to weight .Yes, there will always be a select few for whom diet and exercise will not be enough. But there are very few people who fall into that category. Medical science has shown us time and again that what matters is calories in vs. calories out. If you consume more than you expend, you will gain weight. All this fishing for another reason seems like an attempt at justification to me. A way to ease the conscience and say that you really tried but there were forces at work that conspired against you.

[PERKDOUG]

Originally Posted by EeyoreButterfly

The Atkins diet is successful only because it eliminates an entire food group.

I presume you mean carbohydrates. Atkins does not eliminate an entire food group. The diet cuts back on carbohydrates to 20 g/day in the induction phase which is the first stage in the Atkins protocal. The later phases of the diet allow more and more carbohydrates to be added until you begin to lose contol of your weight at which time you cut back some on the carbs and that level of carbs constitutes a maintenance diet to be carried on for life.
You should read his book even if you have no intension of using the diet. I try to read and own them all, Ornish, Atkins, Sears, Heller, Agatston, Eades ect. For me the subject of diet is an obsession along with heart disease and cancer. For the obese and type 2 's the understanding of diet may be the difference in living 20 extra years or not. These books reveal a subject somewhat like religion and politics. You get differing science and methodology. You read and decide who is right then follow that diet protocal. You will find on these Forums that something akin to the Atkins protocal is the most favored by the type 2 sufferer.
As for Weightwatchers, it resembles Alcoholics Anonymous because it involves group meetings and mental support from other Weightwatchers. The meetings, which inspire better compliance, make comparisons with other diets invalid in my opinion. If the Atkins groups in the research had meetings like Weightwatches the results might be quite different. But for those for which it works, go for it. I am able with no real effort to stay thin just cutting back on the refined carbs, no meetings no special food.

[fgummett]

I just don't even know where to start with this one so I'll simply suggest you do some reading and/or watching of your own:

What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

Big Fat Lies with Gary Taubes, 02/06/08 Stevens Institute of Technology

[yannah]

All I want to say is I have been eating less than 50 carbs a day for 3 months. I have gone form 229 to 177. Everyone in this room right now is eating pumpkin roll, I have no interest in eating pumpkin roll. I don't feel deprived. and I am not hungry.

[shiny!]

Originally Posted by EeyoreButterfly

In 2006 a study was published of all commercially available diets and programs. Atkins was one of the diets studied. Do you know what it found? There was only one, I repeat, one commercially diet program in which participants were able to lose the weight and keep it off. It was not Atkins. It was Weight Watchers.

What study?? By who, Weight Watchers?

[shiny!]

Originally Posted by EeyoreButterfly

Recommending Atkins to a person with diabetes is irresponsible. Atkins can result in ketones because the kidneys must work harder to filter protein. This is very dangerous for people with diabetes.

LCing is probably going to save my life where diabetes is concerned. Please do your research before offering advice of this nature.

I'm glad you've found something that works for you, but for every Weight Watcher who say's they have found the way, you will find someone who does Atkins/LC that will say the same thing.