[foxl]

Cortisol, eh ...? My old chum from the adrenals.

I love those clicks! Wish I could reproduce them myself at home, but would end up with serious sneering. I am still working on the Bengali "dh" sound since it is part of my daughter's name! No we did not name her something we could not pronounce, she came with it, and we kept it.

Sad though, if you live in the English-speaking world, we are soooo chavinistic about the sounds that do not occur in English. Many are beautiful.

But I digress ... back to the cortisol ... do VAMPYRES experience dusk effect, and if so, is it only if they are preying on big juicy T2Ds? (JK not all big and juicy).

[Ckoei]

My knowledge of vampire-biology is a bit scrappy (limited to Terry Pratchett's vampiric photographer Otto Chriek, who reverts to a pile of ash every time he uses a flash).I just hope they carry along floss & toothbrush, especially if T2 suckee(s) is/are hyperglycaemic.

Human diabetic night-shifters are still welcome to respond to the dusk-phenomenon question (if they are not afraid of vampires, gnus,tinfoil hats,aliens,etc.?)

And maybe the initial question should be limited to Type 2s who do not use insulin. Insulin absorption & action is not always that predictable, so one cannot necessarily blame fat and farinaceous fare for an elevated morning BG. It seems that my supposedly level-headed Lantus usually (but not always) raises its head enough to prevent me from experiencing a phenomenal dawn.

I'd better protect the rest of the thread with this "garlic"!
(Too lazy to copy&paste a picture)

[notreally]

I have tried everything suggested here and haven't found anything that really helps. I have tried carbs and protein, carbs and fat, carbs and fiber, no carbs, no food at all. My body doesn't care at all. Still between 140 and 160 until I eat in the morning then a quick spike and dive down into 100-120 range for the rest of the day except around meals.

Night readings at 110, wake up at 148 isn't uncommon at all.

[Caravaggio]

In my case, the factor is when I eat dinner. If I eat dinner early I have lower readings in the morning, even if I have a molten chocolate cake for dessert. Before anyone starts complaining, I don't have molten chocolate cake every night, nor do I eat the entire thing.

If I eat a late dinner, I get higher morning readings, even if the carbs come from only the side veggies or the veggies in the salad.

Whatever the number, my morning FBG does not keep rising in the morning until I have breakfast. The number seems to peak around 9:00 a.m. then starts to go down until around noon. I've not tried not eating after 12 noon so I don't know what will happen if I starve myself for a day.

Also, whatever the number, my morning BG drops big time as soon as I eat something.

DP or Somogyi Effect? I don't know.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

DP or Somogyi Effect? I don't know.

I know I must sound like a record stuck on repeat sometimes, but basal testing will answer this question and help reveal your basal or biological profile. On the side, why would you consider it likely somogyi effect (or rebound from lows for the rest of us)?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by notreally

I have tried everything suggested here and haven't found anything that really helps.

From what I can gather it's a hormonal response based on the 24 hour body clock, so it's not surprising that food and diet may not be central to the issue.

I understand that the DP may in some circumstances, be the first point that some type 2s might really need to consider that diet and exercise approaches may no longer be a complete answer for them, something that would have been very tempting to believe as a permanent solution before. A tricky time to deal with, I imagine. I wish you all luck in arriving at whatever answers you need!

[Caravaggio]

Originally Posted by Subby

I know I must sound like a record stuck on repeat sometimes, but basal testing will answer this question and help reveal your basal or biological profile. On the side, why would you consider it likely somogyi effect (or rebound from lows for the rest of us)?

Because I don't know if my high morning number is from having lows. In the tests I've done, I've seen several numbers on the low range (between 60-70) but they are rare. Are these numbers low? I don't get high numbers at 3 a.m. So, I think that it is DP but I may occasionally get low or risk getting low. When I started eating early dinners my morning BG has gone down. However, I'm always concerned about actually getting a low while asleep, especially because of the amount of time between dinner and breakfast, so I have soy milk before going to bed.

[Subby]

It's an interesting question. As for is that low enough to get a liver dump, I really can't say. There will be theories out there but your body may well be unique. Here's where basal testing or testing hourly or 2 hourly under controlled conditions is good for, you not only see the point you are at, you can see a trend.

So, maybe next time you see a reading and suspect it might be low enough to set off a liver dump, be sure to test over the next few hours to see if there is a definite rise, apparently in reaction to the low. You might be able to better answer the question, then.

I know what you mean about your concern with going low while you sleep, but don't forget your body generates and meters out it's own energy all the time, and not just in the form of emergency liver dumps! The fast overnight shouldn't automatically increase any kind of risk of hypos for a non insulin taking type 2. Of course, there's that "shoudn't", a subjective term, and here's my further clause, that I have very little experience dealing with type 2.

[Caravaggio]

Originally Posted by Subby

It's an interesting question. As for is that low enough to get a liver dump, I really can't say. There will be theories out there but your body may well be unique. Here's where basal testing or testing hourly or 2 hourly under controlled conditions is good for, you not only see the point you are at, you can see a trend.

So, maybe next time you see a reading and suspect it might be low enough to set off a liver dump, be sure to test over the next few hours to see if there is a definite rise, apparently in reaction to the low. You might be able to better answer the question, then.

I know what you mean about your concern with going low while you sleep, but don't forget your body generates and meters out it's own energy all the time, and not just in the form of emergency liver dumps! The fast overnight shouldn't automatically increase any kind of risk of hypos for a non insulin taking type 2. Of course, there's that "shoudn't", a subjective term, and here's my further clause, that I have very little experience dealing with type 2.

I have checked this with my doctor and he told me to note down my activities for the day as well. Like you, he said not to worry too much about getting lows while sleeping because I don't use insulin and I'm not really at risk for lows given my current medical regimen. He considers the rare 3 a.m. low or almost-low cases as possibly caused by my activities which I have not taken note of at those times, food or drink that I might have overlooked while recording my food/drink intake, or other reasons.

This discussion has now convinced me to do a series of tests again at 3 a.m., which is no fun.

Thanks.

[Lloyd]

None of the above.

My DP is extremely regular, which is why when I treat it with an insulin pump I can almost completely null it out.

-Lloyd