What's a spike and whats a normal reaction to a sugar?

[davepc]

I'm still new at testing and deciding what foods are good for my body and not. I'm finding out that 'zero carb' or 'sugar free' don't necessarily mean 'no effect on my blood sugar', but I don't know whats acceptable or whats abnormal.

Quick example; I'm trying to figure out of crystal light is 'safe' or something I should avoid. I've heard differing opinions pro and con, so decided to test it myself. I noticed right away that one of the main ingredients is maltodextrin. Maltodextrin has a glycemic index comparable to raw table sugar. Unfortunately I have zero idea how much maltodextrin is in a packet, because it's not listed anywhere.

I took a packet of crystal light, and made a drink of 24oz of water and one 4g packet of the crystal light. I drank it and then tested.

pre drink: 94
15 mins: 96
30 mins: 104
45 mins: 101
60 mins: 96

Obviously the maltodextrin had an impact on my blood glucose, but that not unexpected, a healthy person would have an elevated blood glucose ingesting this stuff right? Does this mean my body tolerated it well or does it mean it's something to avoid?

I'm trying to make food decisions based on the overall value of the food, and as crystal light has no nutritional value I'm leaning towards putting it on the 'no' list, but then again it's nice to have a drink that has a little bit of flavor. But what if instead of crystal light we were talking about a healthy vitamin and nutrient packed vegetable, then the slight rise in blood sugar would be worth it, no?

[Hooterville]

Even though I have tons of faith in my no frills One Touch Ultra, those numbers are within meter variation. So they say. Having said that, my One Touch did test me at 83, the exact same number the lab got this past Tuesday. It's always been within a point or two of the lab. So how reliable is your meter?

Interesting experiment. Maybe repeat it and then decide if the Crystal Light is worth it.

[davepc]

Variance in the meter is something I haven't accounted for, good point.

Lets just assume that the meter is 100% accurate for the sake of the discussion. Is that 10 point rise enough for me to never consider drinking Crystal Light ever again, or is that 10 point rise a normal reaction to a sugar and something that shouldn't keep me from drinking it now and again. I guess it's all subjective and depends on how much we want to subject our bodies to. If it shot my sugar up 20 or 30 points then I'd say no way and leave it at that. I just don't know if a 10 point rise is something I can consider reasonable considering the food type.

[Ela]

Hey Davepc,

Your numbers look fine to me - 104 as your highest number is OK, so if you love your Criytal light - go ahead and drink it! But it's just MHO and I'm no doctor or course.

Hooterville had a good point about meter variance. I have another one - I don't have a normal "raise" in my BG after meals. I can't never say that "eating this food raises my BG 10 or 20 or whatever points". I can start with something like 80 and end up with 120 and next day start with 100 and eating the same exactly food get 101 or even lower than 100 PP numbers! There are too many things involved.

So my last word on your favorite drink would be - try again a few times and if your readings are not above the limit you set for yourself (my is 120 btw) - you are OK.

Good luck!

[Hooterville]

Variance in the meter is something I haven't accounted for, good point.

Lets just assume that the meter is 100% accurate for the sake of the discussion. Is that 10 point rise enough for me to never consider drinking Crystal Light ever again, or is that 10 point rise a normal reaction to a sugar and something that shouldn't keep me from drinking it now and again. I guess it's all subjective and depends on how much we want to subject our bodies to. If it shot my sugar up 20 or 30 points then I'd say no way and leave it at that. I just don't know if a 10 point rise is something I can consider reasonable considering the food type.

It's really up to you. I'm fine with being at those levels. Consider this, do you always have this drink in isolation? Do you drink it with food that has carbs? If you drink it between meals then maybe it's no biggie. If you drink it with dinner that in itself is going to raise you 30 or 40 points maybe you don't want an additional 10 point rise from the drink. That's assuming that the drink would give you a ten point additional rise to the food that you eat. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe with other carbs it would affect you more. It's hard to say. Sometimes I think my body can handle....let's say, one thing at a time. If I throw too much at it, it retaliates.

I know what you mean about quality. I like berries and I think they are nutritious and I'd rather eat a few berries and their nutrition than have a slice of low carb airy bread.

[Hooterville]

I just noticed your signature, Dave. That's some crazy weight loss! Congratulations.

[davepc]

I just noticed your signature, Dave. That's some crazy weight loss! Congratulations.

Thanks. It's amazing how our bodies respond to a healthy calorie controlled diet and exercise. I've never lost this much this fast, I suspect that being in almost constant ketosis from the low carb diet has helped. I'm not doing any gimmicks. I have a calorie goal, and eat to that every day, and keep my net carbs arround 30g a day. Daily exercise, ussually a brisk walk of at least a half hour, though usually I wind up doing 60 to 90 mins. Recently I added in three days a week weight lifting to improve my lean muscle mass, but the bulk of my loss was just diet and walking.

Now to just do it for the rest of my life.

[davepc]

I tried to edit my last post to add some more detail, but the 10 min edit window ran out...but to follow on to what I was saying...

I weigh and measure anything that goes in my mouth and log it all. I can tell you how many ounces of salmon I ate on May 7th or how many eggs I ate for breakfast April 29th. Carbs, calories, fat, if it was on the nutrition label or in a database/book I know all of the numbers. It was a pain in the *** to start, but uncontrolled weight and blood sugar was more of a pain. Now it's routine and I didn't even think about it. Takes me less then 90 seconds to log a meal, even if I eat something new.

Obviously the weight loss will slow down as my caloric needs get lower and the 1500-1800 calories I eat a day are more in line with my body needs to operate, putting me at less of a deficit.

Just an example, today my body needed 2100 calories just to lay in bed and not do anything. I made it do 700 calories worth of exercise. However i only gave it 1400 calories In food. My body had to find an extra 1400 calories to operate. Luckily (or unluckily) my body has lots of extra energy storage, so it had to tap into that reserve today. It had no choice, I made it necessary. It takes 3500 calories to burn a 1lb of fat. By my math I made a good dent in one lb of fat today.

Of course all these numbers are rough estimates, my pedometer is not the ultimate authority to how many calories I burned walking, nor is the rule of thumb equation used to determine my basal metabolic rate iron clad, but they are good goals posts and the results speak for themselves.

[Tribbles]

I took a packet of crystal light, and made a drink of 24oz of water and one 4g packet of the crystal light. I drank it and then tested.

pre drink: 94
15 mins: 96
30 mins: 104
45 mins: 101
60 mins: 96

Obviously the maltodextrin had an impact on my blood glucose, but that not unexpected, a healthy person would have an elevated blood glucose ingesting this stuff right? Does this mean my body tolerated it well or does it mean it's something to avoid?

The maltodextrin is there to help with the Aspartame that sweetens the drink and is the source of the 5 calories I suspect. That would put the carb count at 1.25g per pack and give a rise of around 4 or 5 points in your levels. I suspect that the 15 min reading is the true one given the GI of maltodextrin and at that point because your body has enough insulin to deal with such a small amount, and that the 30 min reading is largely due to something else (meter variability, food eaten in the last few hours, random body activity,...)

[Subby]

By the way, CGMS readings show that non-diabetics have blood sugars all over the shop through the day, if generally under 100-120 (Often spiking to 140 or even 160 20-40 min after meals with a rapid return to more fasting type levels). It seems generally normal to have little 'spikes' to sugar, carbs, stress, basal variations, coffee, adrenalin, you name it.

I have not seen CGMSes of non diabetic low carbers to prove how much this is down to purely sugar/carbs, to back up claims such as Bernstein's that normal needs to be what is it? 75 or something. This lack of data is kind of strange and a bit suspicious. Would not be hard to do.

[davepc]

Thanks for the response!

I'm leaning towards thinking that the affect of this particular food item is negligible in the grand scheme of my overall sugar control.

[jer.lawrence]

Just wanted to agree -- the 10 point change is so minimal, I think our bodies can go through 10 point swings on and off throughout the day with or without food. I would have a hard time even attributing that to the Crystal Lite.

[Hammer]

By the way, CGMS readings show that non-diabetics have blood sugars all over the shop through the day, if generally under 100-120 (Often spiking to 140 or even 160 20-40 min after meals with a rapid return to more fasting type levels). It seems generally normal to have little 'spikes' to sugar, carbs, stress, basal variations, coffee, adrenalin, you name it.

I have not seen CGMSes of non diabetic low carbers to prove how much this is down to purely sugar/carbs, to back up claims such as Bernstein's that normal needs to be what is it? 75 or something. This lack of data is kind of strange and a bit suspicious. Would not be hard to do.

Subby, I am curious about this. From what I have experienced with non-diabetics (family members and friends), and from what I have seen posted here by others, I can't help but think that a non-diabetic's numbers are not all over the place, and in fact rarely go above 100, no matter what they eat. If a so called non-diabetic's numbers go up to 120 or higher, then I can't help but wonder if they are pre-diabetic.

In a thread here in the forums where it was asked what your non-diabetic friends or family members numbers were after they ate a carby meal, the typical reply was less than 100, with a few going as high as 105. When I tested my family members or friends, I got the same results. The last person I tested was my 32 year old daughter. She was at my house for a visit, and I had picked up some snacks for her that she said she liked. She drank two regular sodas and ate half a box of Triscuits. I figured the total carb count to be about 170 carbs. I tested her BG and she only went up to 95.

I have seen similar results with my friends and other, non-diabetic family members. This is what leads me to think that if a person, who is supposed to be non-diabetic, has an after meal BG of 120 or higher, then that person isn't a non-diabetic, but is a prediabetic....or a diabetic, only they haven't been diagnosed yet.

I realize that my results aren't scientific, but I can only go by what I see, and I have never seen a true non-diabetic ever go above 120....typically never above 105.

[Subby]

Subby, I am curious about this. From what I have experienced with non-diabetics (family members and friends), and from what I have seen posted here by others, I can't help but think that a non-diabetic's numbers are not all over the place, and in fact rarely go above 100, no matter what they eat. If a so called non-diabetic's numbers go up to 120 or higher, then I can't help but wonder if they are pre-diabetic.

In a thread here in the forums where it was asked what your non-diabetic friends or family members numbers were after they ate a carby meal, the typical reply was less than 100, with a few going as high as 105. When I tested my family members or friends, I got the same results. The last person I tested was my 32 year old daughter. She was at my house for a visit, and I had picked up some snacks for her that she said she liked. She drank two regular sodas and ate half a box of Triscuits. I figured the total carb count to be about 170 carbs. I tested her BG and she only went up to 95.

I have seen similar results with my friends and other, non-diabetic family members. This is what leads me to think that if a person, who is supposed to be non-diabetic, has an after meal BG of 120 or higher, then that person isn't a non-diabetic, but is a prediabetic....or a diabetic, only they haven't been diagnosed yet.

I realize that my results aren't scientific, but I can only go by what I see, and I have never seen a true non-diabetic ever go above 120....typically never above 105.

I don't have time to go and get the illustrative links and graphs, but yes, as you say your results are not scientific, and there is scientific evidence to show "true non diabetics" are all over the shop albeit usually below 120-100 (I didn't say otherwise), and do spike up to to 130-140 or even up to 160 post meal. I will post links later.

The main point is the impression you can get from the likes of some low carbing sources that claim such things as true non-diabetic levels are stuck at a rock steady 75 or 80 or such, adding to the op's confusion as to whether a "spike" to 100 is particularly abnormal or dangerous. Metabolism doesn't seem to work like that, though it's not like these things have been thoroughly proven - you'll definitely still get low carbers claiming anyone will be rock steady on 75 if they low carb. They just don't always seem to have really good scientific evidence to back it up, form what I've seen...

[davepc]

I appreciate all the responses and info.

People always say "eat to your meter" but as a recently diagnosed person it's hard to know exactly what that means for me.

Since I have no baseline idea of what my blood sugar should do to any particular stimulus it's hard to make heads or tails of all this sometimes. I don't want to be the obsessive person who is sweating every tick up or down day to day, but I want to be aware of whats generally safe for me and what could cause a problem. I appreciate having somewhere to kind of work through this sort of in public with some insights from those who have been through it.

I'd ask some family member who are t2 for advice, but they shovel chocolate cake into their mouth like its no big deal and take an ever long list of meds year after year and don't know or don't want to know what their bodies are doing.