Low Carb Diet - How do I lower my Insulin use..?

[fgummett]

I am reading Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories"... which presents a compelling argument counter to the commonly-held belief that a low-fat (high-carb) diet is healthier: the science and observation over the last 200 years point more strongly towards an higher fat and lower carbohydrate diet as being healthy. Higher carb = Higher BS = Higher Insulin levels = Greater Storage of Fat. Insulin it seems, is not only responsible for the storage of fat but it also prevents the use of fat as an energy source. He is saying that Atkins was right. He is saying that the low-fat high-carb diet is killing us with chronic diseases.

So, I am experimenting on myself with an Atkins style diet for the next few weeks, or at least long enough to see if it affects my weight. I also have regular lipid profiles etc... so I can also see how it affects my overall health. Carrying about 150 lbs extra I figure I have little to lose by using myself as a guinea-pig. I have already found (thanks to DF) that avoiding bread, potatoes, pasta, rice etc... has helped control my BS.

BUT, I'm currently using (via a pump) around 90u of Novorapid daily (65% basal). As above, insulin is working against me in terms of fat storage and fat burning, so I am open to suggestions as to how I can cut down the amount I am using. I am assuming that as I start to eat only meat and fish (at first), my insulin needs should be less?? I am hopeful that when/if my weight comes down that will help with the IR and insulin requirements but in the meantime I am looking for suggestions such as re-trying Metformin or some other medication that may help me to take less insulin. Or does it make sense to let my BS run a little higher for a while so that I am using less Insulin?

Thanks

[DeusXM]

If you're going on Atkins you will need to drastically lower your total insulin intake. Don't let your BS run higher just to reduce the amount of insulin you need. Insulin is a perfectly natural hormone and you need it to keep your BG normal. If your BG is not normal then you'll end up doing more damage to yourself.

You reduce your carb intake and then you reduce your insulin intake to match the carb intake to give you normal BGs.

Letting you BGs run higher in order to take less insulin is pointless. You might as well just stop taking your insulin and eat whatever you like - you will lose weight in a matter of days. But you'll also go into DKA, which isn't worth it.

[Mich]

Hi Frank,

Good for you for trying something new. I can only speak for myself, but if it were me, I'd start out by testing and making sure my basal was all basal. If it's correct, you should be able to go hours at a time without eating and your blood sugar should stay the same or pretty close (allowing for meter variations when testing.)

I suspect that your insulin resistance may begin to creep downward, allowing you to eventually lower your basal. If you are going very low carb (say less than 30-40 grams a day) you should have smaller corrections at meals. Check out Atkins' book about Diabetes and see what he says about the "Induction Phase" where no carb at all is allowed. That may feel too extreme for you. Also read Robert Bernstein's book
which has some newer information on the same subject matter.

I'm not sure two weeks is quite long enough for your body to make all of the adjustments it will make. You may need to take a month or even longer. Just my opinion of course. Some members of this group are much more schooled on physiology than I.

Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.

Mich

[xMenace]

I suspect that your insulin resistance may begin to creep downward, allowing you to eventually lower your basal.

My plan was to simply lower my daily total from 90 to 70. After a week, my basals plummeted to where I was battling chronic hypos. I settled on an 85% of normal basal.

I'm not far in and I didn't cut back nearly as much as you seem to be palnning.

[fgummett]

Thanks for the feedback I should point out that I am officially Type 2 (Metabolic Syndrome) so I'm not sure that DKA would kick in but I should still be able to get into a ketotic state. I also plan to keep this up as long as it takes to see if it makes any difference. I will keep a close eye on my basal... in fact after a very filling breakfast of leftover steak, sausages and eggs I think I can skip lunch today without even feeling hungry. I must admit, after years of EVOO only, it was so weird to see solid fat in my frying pan this morning. Maybe my Mum was right after all; feeding us the leftover fat/drippings from the Sunday roast as a snack

[Mich]

I guess I'm just superstitious, but I still try to make the "good" fats outweigh the "bad" to keep my HDL up.

I know, I know. It's just a habit. Like drinking red wine and eating little bits of dark chocolate. M

[fgummett]

I guess I'm just superstitious, but I still try to make the "good" fats outweigh the "bad" to keep my HDL up.

It is hard to break these ingrained habits but after reading the book (so far) it has raised some serious questions as to what are the good fats and what are the bad... and what science if any, is behind the commonly-held dogma as preached by the AHA, ADA etc... for example, increased use of polyunsaturated fats may be linked to increased incidence of cancer. Also LDL and HDL are generally seen as the most important lipids where it may be Triglycerides that we need to watch... the emphasis on LDL and HDL may simply stem from the fact that they have been the easiest to test

[Jan B]

Good for you Frank! When I went low carb, I lost 7 lbs without even trying. I loved Gary Taube's research and book. For years, I had the belief that all fats were bad, and I was even a vegetarian who ate lots of rice and beans. No more! One of my favorite meals is sauerkraut and sausage with a side of steamed spinach. I traded the oatmeal for delicious omelets & often have huge spinach salads for lunch (onion, walnuts, mozarella, mushrooms,with flaxseed meal sprinkled on top & I find the lowest carb dressing available). I eat plenty of lean meat instead of lots of red meat. Something fun about low-carbing is how satisfied you can feel. And the longer you avoid carbs, the less you crave them.

I'm sincerely hoping this helps & I look forward to you sharing more.

[fgummett]

Thanks Jan. I'll almost certainly be favouring the lean meats and fish later, but for the early stages where it is pretty much just meat, I'm going to have to watch the budget and buy what is cheapest.

Update on basal testing... as above, after a filling breakfast, I missed lunch today and an hour ago (12:30) was getting a headache (usually means I'm heading downwards) at 4.8mmol/l. I lowered my basal to 50% for the next 4 hours, and an hour later (1:30 pm) I just tested at 5.2mmol/l. Early days of course but highly suggestive that I will be using a lot less insulin

[BlueSky]

... I am looking for suggestions such as re-trying Metformin or some other medication that may help me to take less insulin. Or does it make sense to let my BS run a little higher for a while so that I am using less Insulin? ...

Frank,

Reducing the carbs will reduce your insulin needs a lot. Interestingly, I found that reducing carbs had the biggest impact on basal requirements. As a T2, insulin resistance is obviously an issue for you. And I would suggest that the best way to further improve insulin sensitivity is exercise. Aerobic exercise has an immediate effect. And building muscle results in a permanent improvement in insulin sensitivity.

[fgummett]

Thanks BlueSky... I'm already starting to see lower BS with the lower carbs. I'm walking at least 1/2 hour daily and exercise is something I will definitely be ramping up as the weight goes down. I used to be much more gung-ho with exercise but I found that between the D and carrying an extra 150lbs or so, it seems to take many times longer for my body to recover, especially after resistance training. From what I have read, my body is probably in a state of chronic inflammation would could explain the slow healing. Maybe I should ask my doctor for a C-Reactive Protein test?

[matingara]

It is hard to break these ingrained habits but after reading the book (so far) it has raised some serious questions as to what are the good fats and what are the bad... and what science if any, is behind the commonly-held dogma as preached by the AHA, ADA etc... for example, increased use of polyunsaturated fats may be linked to increased incidence of cancer. Also LDL and HDL are generally seen as the most important lipids where it may be Triglycerides that we need to watch... the emphasis on LDL and HDL may simply stem from the fact that they have been the easiest to test

Frank!

This reminds me of that moment in "Field of Dreams" when the brother-in-law turns around and asks "When did all these ball-players get here?"!!!

i am so glad you have read about, and are trying this approach. my triglycerides have PLUMMETTED since i reduced carbs!

see the signature!



-- Joel.

[fgummett]

Well it's been a few days and I guess my body has answered this question for me: I still have great BS levels but I am now only needing around 50u of Novorapid daily... down from around 80-90u previously! The bulk of the Insulin is basal, with virtually no bolus; as I am eating mostly just meat, eggs and cheese. Ketones in my urine... ketosis (NOT ketoacidosis!) is good. I do have some headaches but I suspect my brain is missing the carb-high... I'll keep an eye on it. Most importantly I AM NOT HUNGRY! Those of you who do not have a fat issue may not be able to relate but I have basically been hungry for the last 25 years, this is remarkable

[sprzepiora]

Well it's been a few days and I guess my body has answered this question for me: I still have great BS levels but I am now only needing around 50u of Novorapid daily... down from around 80-90u previously! The bulk of the Insulin is basal, with virtually no bolus; as I am eating mostly just meat, eggs and cheese. Ketones in my urine... ketosis (NOT ketoacidosis!) is good. I do have some headaches but I suspect my brain is missing the carb-high... I'll keep an eye on it. Most importantly I AM NOT HUNGRY! Those of you who do not have a fat issue may not be able to relate but I have basically been hungry for the last 25 years, this is remarkable

I know exactly where you are at as I had it happen to me twice. I started with 36u of basal and a bolus ratio of 1:8. I started low carbing it, about 75 to 100 grams a day. Just a few days into it I had lots of problems with going low, it was like a constant push downwards on my levels. I had to adjust my basal rates, so I then took 26u of basal and adjusted my bolus ratio to 1:10 and have stayed there for a while now.

During this time I was walking a couple of times a weak, nothing serious as I had started walking daily earlier, but it hurt my hips. Well, this week I started a new routine:
Mon - Bike 30 mins
Tue - Walk 30 mins
Wed - Bike 30 mins
Thur - Walk 30 mins
Fri - Bike 30 mins
Sat - Nothing, often lots of yard work.
Sun - Long bike ride, anywhere from one to two hours

Well, I started fighting lows again and decided last night to adjust my basal rate down again.


As of this moment I am taking about 10 units of bolus a day and 20 units of basal a day. With half of the days I am taking about 4 or 5 units for bolus. So I know my rates are still a little wacky. I really need to do some basal testing as I believe my basal rates are probably still to high.


It's pretty cool not having to take so much insulin isn't it?

[fgummett]

Thanks... its is so great to have that positive feedback of looking at the daily total insulin count on my pump over the last couple of weeks I even get excited at watching the keto-stix turning purple... much to the embarrassment of my 17 year old son

I am also walking briskly 30 minutes each day but was already doing that... although I now notice my knees are not so sore as they have been for a while... might be coincidental but either way I ain't complainin'

The biggest single hit on my basal was my midnight to 09:30 which had been at 4u/hr to cover the DP bump... almost overnight I had to cut that back to 3u/hr to stop going low.