[shabbie]

Originally Posted by GretchO

.......
i'm not trying to shoot this alkaline diet down for insulin requirement issues, but I do know that scientifically it's extremely difficult to change a body's pH through diet alone, whether or not the body is healthy. the diet is clearly lowering your basal requirements but does that in turn mean it's changing the pH of your body too? i can buy the diet/basal insulin relationship, but w/out blood results showing the body's pH pre and post diet, i can't be convinced that you've changed the pH of your body and thus your insulin requirements have changed. or have i missed the point entirely?

just realised i hadnt answered some of your question

apparently the way it works is that in a normal body operates at pH neutral 7.3.
the cells of the body are surrounded by fluid which supports them and will be whatever pH is natural for that cell/organ.

the pancreas for instance is naturally an alkaline organ, it should be surrounded by alkaline fluid. but because we have become diabetic our pancreas is surrounded by acidic fluid which means the organ is unable to function efficently.

just suppose that if by adopting a more alkaline input (food/drinks) we are able to alter that balance and the fluid becomes alkaline again, could there be the possiblity of the islets becoming active again??

the jury is still out on whether this is happening to me all i know is i'm using less insulin.

[genie86333]

Ok, I'm not shooting down your ideas because I don't know what is going on inside your body...but what I want to know is why you think that this is due to changing the Ph balance & not from the lowering of carbs? (because as you said you were eating 130-175 grams/day - which, although it's a lot less than much of society today eats, it's more than some of us eat in a week & now you're eating things that are "mostly water.")

[DCaplinger]

Wow. I'm not even sure I should jump in on this. I can't believe how negative some of the replies have been on this, however there are logical reasons why her pH has increased because of this diet. It's actually very simple... she's detoxifying.

If she's stopped eating meat and processed foods, then the load of junk that is in our average diet has been removed as well. She's eating green leafy veggies, which are high in phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, and are much better for the body than processed foods. Her diet DID cause her pH to raise, but not because it's an alkaline diet. It raised her pH because her overall wellness has increased. This is also evident in the lowering need for insulin, which is also because of her wellness and diet.

Our bodies are constantly trying to reach a state of neutral homeostasis. An acidic body cannot do so, and is prone to infection and disease. pH is effected by many factors. There are ways to naturally turn your pH more alkaline, but I will agree, it's not possible through diet alone. However, changing your diet is a good place to begin.

Do not be so quick to criticize someone who comes here to make a comment or seek suggestions. While some of you are so dead set against the idea of raising your pH as a way of being healthier, there are some of us, including myself, who do believe it can be done naturally. My doctors agree with me on that.

In the United States, naturopathy is an area of science. The doctors that practice it locally here are MD's. They are required to be MD's or DO's by state law. They are not quacks. They have the same medical training as any other medical doctor. The biggest difference between them, is that a Naturopath will not typically prescribe medications as a part of their treatment plan.

[GretchO]

sorry for being skeptical but no evidence (beyond anecdotal) has been offered yet. so, if your body is constantly aiming to keep its pH betwen 7.35 and 7.45 (otherwise you'd get very ill very fast and then you'd die) how much are you actually changing your pH? i'm seriously asking because it's interesting to me. do you know what your body's pH was when it was "acidic" and what it is now (via blood test as saliva and urine tests aren't adequate)?

i'm not saying naturopathy is bad or wrong, i'd just like to see some data on this pH thing.

[DCaplinger]

Gretchen:

I don't know where you got your information regarding the usefulness of urine pH testing, but I'm afraid it isn't correct.

Originally Posted by http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/test/urine-ph/overview.html

What Abnormal Results Mean

A high urine pH may be due to:

* Gastric suction
* Kidney failure
* Kidney tubular acidosis
* Urinary tract infection
* Vomiting

A low urine pH may be due to:

* Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (such as emphysema)
* Diabetic ketoacidosis
* Diarrhea
* Starvation

The test also may be performed to investigate:

* Alkalosis
* Interstitial nephritis
* Kidney tubular acidosis - distal
* Sepsis

Review Date: 10/22/2007
Reviewed By: Robert Mushnick, M.D., Clinical Assistant Professor, Department of Nephrology, SUNY Downstate Health Center, Brooklyn, NY. Review provided by VeriMed Healthcare Network.

Metabolic abnormalities can be tracked. As I've already said, there really isn't much to the idea of an "alkaline diet", however the benefits of healthier eating and wellness help the body reach homeostasis, which would mean the pH would be within "normal" or more alkaline numbers. You and I cannot normally test our blood pH, however labs can.

I can't offer any studies or further scientific evidence to the subject, as this isn't my argument to defend. I only jumped in to lend support to the fact that keeping our bodies more alkaline is better for our wellness. Of course, there are dangers in being too alkaline, just as there are with being too acidic, hence the constant balancing act by the body to stay neutral.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a health nut. Wait, yeah I am, but I don't take it to the extreme. I am very skeptical (as should we all be) of snakeoil remedies.

Regards,

D

[shabbie]

many thanks to all of you for posting
also thanks to Darian for sticking your neck out here, your intervention has been very much appreciated

i have not had my blood pH levels measured at all, (british doctors wouldnt entertain spending money on non-essential tests) only home test kits for testing urine and saliva have been used.
saliva tests before dietry changes were 5.0 - 5.5
and are now 6.8 (7.3 being neutral)

i've been eating alkaline foods for the last ten days now and in the wee hours of last night i had to reduce my basals for the 3rd time in 2 days, im now pumping on a temp basal rate of 40%.

all that change in just 10 days!

i take bicarbonate soda at bedtime
lots and lots of alkaline fruits and veggies
chromium picolate
fish oils
vitamin b complex
kelp
glucosamine sulphate
vinpocitine
magnesium
zinc


magnesium zinc and chromium have been started a week ago.

i tried chromium about a year ago and didnt notice nay difference in bg's at all, but decided to take it again now to support the pancreas.

[Jonathan_R]

Actually, there have been clinical studies on this. One of which is in endojouranls.org. I have also seen the ph levels as the blood sugar rises. It would make sence then, that an alkaline diet would help fight acidosis, which is a major concern among us diabetics. If you look, you will find the science.

Here is a list of foods and there approximate ph. US FDA/CFSAN - Approximate pH of Foods and Food Products The goal with the diet is 80/20. 80% alkaline and 20% acid. I would caution though, not to go to far and end up with alkadosis.

[tiny]

Hello all, I am new to this forum thing. A little infor about me is I was diagnosed pre diabetic 3 years ago. My doctor put me on the low glycemic index diet nearly 3 years ago and I have followed it as close as I can (with some cheats here and there) I have not had an eppisode in almost 2.5 years, were my blood surgar drops drastically, fast and I would pass out. These eppisodes would put me in bed for a day or two.

I have been reading up on this alkaline diet, and as far as I can understand it doesn't follow the low glycemic index, and it tells us to greatly reduce meat and dairy intake. Correct???

The low glycemic allows several things the alkaline does not, so if I were to change my diet to alkaline wouldn't the increase in fruits that are not on the low glycemic index mess with my surgar levels??

BTW I am not looking for weight loss either, the low glycemic diet had already been helping me lose weight.

[Jonathan_R]

The alkaline diet is more complex than that. It can be low glycemic if you want it to be. The main thing is the ph. 80% alkaline, 20% acid.

Read this: pHbalance - The pH Theory and pHbalance - Misunderstandings

See if that helps.

[DeusXM]

I have also seen the ph levels as the blood sugar rises. It would make sence then, that an alkaline diet would help fight acidosis, which is a major concern among us diabetics.

I think you're confusing cause and symptom here.

It's a well-known fact that if the body lacks the insulin required to supply glucose to anywhere that requires energy, the body enters a metabolic state called diabetic ketoacedosis, where the body literally consumes itself.

The side-effect of this is that the blood becomes more acidic - it is not acidic blood that causes DKA.

pH levels will rise if BG rises provided of course that the BG levels are rising because of a lack of insulin.

Acedosis is NOT a concern for anyone with diabetes if they are treating their diabetes correctly. Furthermore, an alkaline diet would do nothing to prevent DKA. DKA is a metabolic problem caused by a lack of insulin, not a lack of a neutralising pH. The best case scenario you could hope for by treating DKA with an alkaline diet would be that instead of the acid overwhelming your body, you'd simply starve to death over a week or so, instead of a few days.

You really, really need to get your head around the idea that your body needs insulin and that a T1 simply cannot survive without it. I've seen your post elsewhere where you're looking into treating T1 with diet and exercise. It is not possible.

Glucose is the fuel. The muscles are the engine. Insulin is the fuel line. If you don't have insulin, you can't fuel the engine. It's basic biology. It doesn't matter what you eat, whether it's no-carb or alkaline. If you're a T1, if you don't take insulin, you WILL die, and it'll happen pretty quickly too - we're talking within 48 hours in some cases.

[AliB]

Hi Sharon. I haven't posted on here for ages but picked up your thread after searching for Alkalizing and Diabetes links.

I have followed the Diet before, but didn't stay on it. However, during the few weeks I was on it, all my Candida symptoms went away, my IBS cleared up, I lost weight and my BG levels stabilised.

I only stopped because my stomach got a bit sore, but as gut bugs don't like an alkaline environment I suspect they were getting a bit narky.

I don't subscribe to the idea that the body pH is not affected by what we eat. When body pH is mentioned, what is really being alluded to is the pH of the blood. The body will do whatever it can to maintain the right level - even leaching minerals out from other areas of the body in order to do so.

A comment was made that if the body didn't maintain its pH balance people would get very sick and die. Well, I have news for them - they do. What are most of our modern, and not so modern diseases caused by if not deficiencies?

Ok, so sometimes deficiencies are caused through gut damage and malabsorption issues (more than people realise methinks), but also through malnutrition (and believe it or not even within our trash food-laden Western diet there is plenty of that too) and if the body can't get the minerals it needs from its diet then where the heck else is it going to get them from?

Itself.

What is multiple organ failure if not the body consuming itself from the inside out?

Yes, the low carbohydrate element of the diet will undoubtedly help reduce the sugar load, but rejuvenation of Islet cells? We'll have to wait and see on that one.

It seems that many people have been able to dump their medication - and not just type 2's. Victoria Boutenko managed to reverse her 10 year-old sons' type 1 on an all-raw diet and he has never had to go on insulin. Not never.

I'm a type 1.5 on insulin and Metformin. I have been low-carbing for a while with good results. Now I am revisiting the alkalizing diet to see if I can make it work this time. There is a lot of very logical scientific argument behind it. I like logic. Give me logic and reason and common sense over the idiotic nonsensical stupidity of 'The Establishment' anytime.

My adage for anything that is out there - don't knock it till you've tried it..........if we can walk on the moon, anything is possible...........

[isis_rainbow]

Yeah, sorry, I agree...even the oxygen we breathe in and the carbon dioxide we exhale have an effect on our pH levels. I think it's more of what you're eating.

[tealas]

Certainly, it is worth a $10 roll of pH tape to check it out. We are all the ultimate evidenced based researchers here, day in and day out with all the testing we do. We are so used to checking our blood sugar levels, it is very easy to try testing your first morning urine and saliva pH levels too.

See for yourself what the relationships are between pH levels, the foods you eat, and your average blood sugar levels. You might not find anything stunning, but you also might find another aspect of diet that is as powerful as "low-carbing".