[Evermont]

I also found this interesting (from the same source)
"In humans, approximately half of stored creatine originates from food (mainly from fresh meat and fish). Since vegetables do not contain creatine, vegetarians clearly show lower levels of muscle creatine which, upon creatine supplementation, rise to a level higher than in meat-eaters"

[kstreeter513]

Originally Posted by Evermont

I'm not into supplements generally. But recently I noticed that my lab results are showing a creatinine trend. I'll be asking my doctor soon what she thinks about supplementation to keep my numbers from falling below the bottom of the 'normal' window.

My creatinine lab results:
0.90 11/2005 (when I had my laparascopic appendectomy)
0.84 08/2007 (just prior to Dx of T2, tweaked exercise & diet)
0.74 04/2008 (continued diet and exercise improvement)

The normal range is 0.70 to 1.50, so I'm trending out of bounds. I need to learn if supplementing is the right thing to do and if so, how much and what kind. If I get up closer to 1.50 with supplementation, can I expect to build muscle faster?

Creatinine and Creatine are not the same thing. Low creatinine levels are a good thing and show that kidney fuction is normal. Creatinine is a waste product produced by your body and filtered out by your kidneys, high levels indicate kidney disease.

Creatine is something produced and stored in skeletal muscle to aid in ATP production.

[Evermont]

Originally Posted by kstreeter513

Creatinine and Creatine are not the same thing. Low creatinine levels are a good thing and show that kidney fuction is normal. Creatinine is a waste product produced by your body and filtered out by your kidneys, high levels indicate kidney disease.

Creatine is something produced and stored in skeletal muscle to aid in ATP production.

Well that's why I was out to ask doc about it, I knew they weren't the same thing but I'm uncertain about the relationship. Lower is better for creatinine sounds good, given my numbers. But now I'm left to wonder, why is there a lower limit? What does it mean to be below that limit? What should I do about it? I mean if it were not a bad thing, why would there even be a low end of 0.70?

So I see that they are different things and lower is better for creatinine - but what about this statement: "vegetarians clearly show lower levels of muscle creatine which, upon creatine supplementation, rise to a level higher than in meat-eaters" ? Is this suggesting that I should consider creatine supplementation? How can I tell if it's indicated? Is "higher than meat-eaters" a good thing?

I need to study up - but if you folks can point me in the right direction - please do!

[pumper]

Again, like kstreeter513 said, creatine and creatinine are NOT the same thing.

[Evermont]

Originally Posted by Evermont

...I knew they weren't the same thing but I'm uncertain about the relationship....I need to study up - but if you folks can point me in the right direction - please do!

Originally Posted by pumper

Again, like kstreeter513 said, creatine and creatinine are NOT the same thing.

Again, I know they're not the same thing. Repeating that answered NONE of my questions. But thanks.

[pumper]

Originally Posted by Evermont

Again, I know they're not the same thing. Repeating that answered NONE of my questions. But thanks.

OK-my apologies. I mis-read your post as saying that you continue to confuse creatinine and creatine as the same thing - which upon re-reading you clearly now understand. My error.

It is true, however, that creatinine is the break-down product of creatine. However, oral ingestion of creatine will not necessarily increase your creatinine output - since the creatinine clearance test is often part of a ratio that looks at kidney function - so, if your kidneys are healthy, I wouldn't assume that creatine supplementation would alter your creatinine profile.

As for vegetarians having lower creatine levels - that is my understanding also. Some people feel (not certain if there is science to back this up) that heavy red meat eaters have naturally very high muscle creatine levels (since there is alot of creatine in red meat) and therefore can often not see much of a result from creatine supplementation. Vegetarians, on the other hand, have lower muscle creatine levels and therefore can respond very very well to creatine supplementation.

Hope that this answers your question.

[kmengers]

Hi everyone. I am a recently diagnosed (April 21) type 1. I just got on the pump about a week ago. Before i was diagnosed I worked out all the time. I played tennis, ran track and loved to lift weights. I have worked out maybe ten times since being diagnosed. This has deffinately been the hardest challenge for me. I know there are different ways of doing this so if you've found something that works for you please let me know. I was thinking about eating without bolusing but then im worried ill go to high. the other thing i was thinking about was just suspending a couple hours before i work out. im still unsure if the only way to work out is to let ur bg get high? Im open to any suggestions regarding working out. Thanks so much.

[pumper]

Originally Posted by kmengers

Hi everyone. I am a recently diagnosed (April 21) type 1. I just got on the pump about a week ago.

Welcome to the thread - and glad to hear that you are already on the pump - I think that that is a smart choice.

Originally Posted by kmengers

Before i was diagnosed I worked out all the time. I played tennis, ran track and loved to lift weights. I have worked out maybe ten times since being diagnosed. This has deffinately been the hardest challenge for me.

Good to hear that you are already used to lifting - I think that this will be more important than ever, now that you have diabetes. I really feel that lifting is one of the best types of exercise for people with diabetes, especially since lean muscle makes you more insulin sensitive and gives you better overall control over your blood sugars.

Originally Posted by kmengers

I know there are different ways of doing this so if you've found something that works for you please let me know. I was thinking about eating without bolusing but then im worried ill go to high. the other thing i was thinking about was just suspending a couple hours before i work out. im still unsure if the only way to work out is to let ur bg get high? Im open to any suggestions regarding working out.

Dude, I don't have a good answer - and you already seem to be thinking about this correctly (ie drop insulin or increase food for exercise). But here are my suggestions.

1) Initially, try to workout at the same time of day while doing the same types of workouts. For example, if you are lifting in the evening, try lifting only in the evening for a week or two and not doing any cardio or any other type of exercise at that time of day. This will let you find out how you respond to that type of exercise at that time of day. The issue is that different types of exercise will have a different effect on your blood sugars (both during and after the exercise). Also, the same exercise at different times of day will also have a different effect on your blood sugars.

2) Since you are lifting, I'm assuming that you might have some bodybuilding goals. So, I'd try to avoid eating extra to bring your blood sugars up for a workout - because that means extra calories. (Though, I would take extra carbs if you are about to start a workout and your blood sugar is below 100.) What I would do is to reduce your insulin - but you need to do that ahead of time. I'd suggest giving yourself a 50 % temp basal 1 hr prior to the start of the workout, during the workout and 1 hr after the workout. If you go low during the workout, then give yourself even less insulin (ie 25% basal 1 hr prior) and if you go high, then reduce the temp basal less (ie 75% basal 1 hr prior). That will give you the opportunity to learn how your body reacts to that type of exercise at that time of day.

For me, I have to give myself more of a reduction in temp basal (50%) for cardio and less of a reduction (70-80%) for lifting. If I lift in the morning (when most people are insulin resistant), then I have to give myself no reduction (ie no basal). So, expect different types of exercise to affect you differently - and also different based on the time of day. Yes, it gets complicated - but there is often a physiological reason for the differences.

I hope that other people will chime in with their experiences.
I'd suggest that you read (and post questions) in these other forums (in addition to here...) to learn as much as possible.

diabetes and bodybuilding - Diabetes Daily Forum
Any body builders out there?? - Diabetes Daily Forum
A Thread for people with Type I Diabetes (Insulin-dependent) Only - Page 7 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Hope that this helps man - ask more questions if things don't make sense.

[andrews730]

whats up? im new to this site and am loving what i am finding. I have been a diabetic since 5th grade and started working out when i graduated high school which was about four years ago. i am tryin to gain about 15 more pounds and am loving the information you guys are putting out there. I take 33 units of lantus in the morning and 1 unit to every 8 carbs of humalog when i eat. let me know if anybody has any questions and i'll definately do the same

[pumper]

Originally Posted by andrews730

whats up? im new to this site and am loving what i am finding. I have been a diabetic since 5th grade and started working out when i graduated high school which was about four years ago. i am tryin to gain about 15 more pounds and am loving the information you guys are putting out there. I take 33 units of lantus in the morning and 1 unit to every 8 carbs of humalog when i eat. let me know if anybody has any questions and i'll definately do the same

Great to have you on board Andrew!!! Any advice that you can bring to this forum is always appreciated.

Keep on lifting buddy.

[andrews730]

thanks. yea im about to go to the gym in a few and do some chest and arms and i'll drink a protein shake with several scoops of oatmeal in it for a post-workout shake to get me some good carbs in it. I will do my insulin to cover it and will try putting it in my triceps maybe just because they will be pumped from working them. I know someone said to inject in the muscle but others disagree and I don't know so I figured I would try it for myself for a little while cause I dont believe it could hurt me to try. And also since I am on a scale of about 1 - 10 or around there for my humalog, say if I have 60 carbs in my shake including my milk and oatmeal, if I should do 60 units of humalog or a little more? I know the 60 would take care of what I eat but does anyone have info if I should inject more in me to maybe shoot me a little low or is that stupid? haha...remember I'm trying to get bigger so just lemme know anything if you can thanks

[RikBrooks]

I hope that this post isn't too long. I've worked out off and on my whole life. I turn 51 tomorrow. I've been having a hard time finding that magic combination that will work for me at this age but I'm making very slow but steady progress.

First of all for my bodybuilding I need a lot more rest time. Not just because I'm diabetic but also my age. I overtrain very easily. So now I train only one body part per workout. Mostly I do big compound exercises, 3 sets of 8-10. I take creatine but no protein powder. My exercises are designed so that the exercise of one muscle group doesn't affect the group that I'll be exercising tomorrow. For example, No triceps then chest the next day.

I do these exercises Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday - the days that I don't do Muay Thai. On the same day I do a one hour walk/run. Right now I'm running for a minute and walking four, repeat until an hour is over.

On Monday and Thursdays I do an hour of Muay Thai. That's a great aerobic exercise but it's also a pretty good resistance exercise. Punching and kicking other people is hard work. It's also amazingly difficult to hold pads for someone that punches and kicks hard.

On Saturdays I work clearing land on my farm. That is by far my hardest workout. It entails cutting down trees with a chain saw then cutting off the branches and cutting the trees into two foot sections. Then I carry those over and pile them up for seasoning. Imagine doing standing rows for 12 hours straight. It's a workout.

[Pasaway]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I'm off track here. I'm new to this forum and I just wanted to get your advised. I been starting to workout and lift some weights but also would like to start working on my abs. I'm afraid that once I develop muscle on my stomach is I got no where to inject my insulin. I use a pen to inject insulin 4 times a day on my stomach and was wondering where do you guys inject your insulin when you guys developed muscle???

[RikBrooks]

LOL, Son, that just doesn't strike me as a problem waiting to happen

[BrianSCohen]

Originally Posted by Pasaway

Hi Guys,

Sorry I'm off track here. I'm new to this forum and I just wanted to get your advised. I been starting to workout and lift some weights but also would like to start working on my abs. I'm afraid that once I develop muscle on my stomach is I got no where to inject my insulin. I use a pen to inject insulin 4 times a day on my stomach and was wondering where do you guys inject your insulin when you guys developed muscle???

Ok, first, you won't get washboard abs by working your abs, you get them by dropping your bodyfat. You will need to get to like 10%. I doubt I will ever get to that point.

Alrighty, now that you are in shape for your first bodybuilding contest, here are some suggestions from Dr. Bernstein. The man is in great shape (Secrets To Normal Blood Sugars-Painless Insulin Injection).

Good luck on those abs.