[pumper]

Hello everyone

I'm think that we should start a tread for people with diabetes who lift weights. This could be for fitness buffs, power lifters, olympic lifters, bodybuilders and any other type of weight lifters.

This thread could cover topics specific to diabetes and weightlifting such as:
-impact on insulin use (ie lowered, higher, basal rate changes)
-bodybuilding diets and the impact on blood sugars
-supplements (protein powders, creatine, etc...)
-ability to loose weight and drop BF% (ie getting 'cut')
-ability to put on muscle mass (ie 'bulking')
-types of workouts
-types of cardio

In addition, this could be a great forum for mutual support. Any comments, help, discussion from anyone would be great. I'd like other weightlifters/bodybuilders with Type I diabetes to post questions and answers and opinions on this tread, all in a diabetes context.

I've been bodybuilding on and off (mainly off recently...) for the last 10 years. There are often problems and adjustments that we need to make in bodybuilding in order to take our diabetes into account-in terms of blood sugars, insulins, etc...

I'm currently trying to get back into bodybuilding. I've always found that there is very little information out there about diabetes and bodybuilding.

So, considering that there are already a number of diabetic bodybuilders on this forum, why not pool the incrediable amout of experience, knowledge and wisdom about bodybuilding and diabetes.

So, anyone (with Diabetes), please post a question/suggestion for all to read and learn from.

Anyone willing to join in?

[xMenace]

Ya,

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

[pumper]

Originally Posted by xMenace

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

First off-saw your location...I'm originally from New Brunswick also...Near the Edmudston reagion, but haven't leaved there in a long time. Great to have anoher New Brunswicker here...

My two cents on protein powder. My brother-in-law is a bodybuilder (at near competitive level...) and he has never used ANY protein powders... So, I think that they are NOT ESSENTIAL to putting on mass. People who exercise alot do need more protein-but you and I should be able to get that protein from a balanced diet.

BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders. However, be aware, that many (but not all) protein powders have added sugar.

So, you lift?

[Evermont]

Originally Posted by pumper

...BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders...

I agree with you that protein powders are often not needed. As a somewhat muscular 22 year vegetarian I can tell you without reservation that I've never had the least interest in protein powders. Since Dx 5 months ago I've been doing regular cardio and strength training and I'm building muscle noticeably with balanced diet only. I get protein from a variety of sources, eggs (egg beaters), lowfat dairy products, beans, soy products, lentils, nuts, etc. I've taken the time and trouble to learn how to do this right and it's paying off. No shortcuts.

Now, I'm not out to impress anyone. Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat. My goal simply to lose weight slowly and steadily and by doing so, improve my insulin resistance.

I like free weights but use other equipment too.

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

[kstreeter513]

I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.
So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

[pumper]

Originally Posted by Evermont

Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat.

I like that way you say that...

Originally Posted by Evermont

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

Great! For now, I'm hoping on a really great thread. I fear that there arn't enough people with diabetes who lift weights to make a subforum a viable option (though I would love to be shown wrong that that one). So, it would be great if you were willing to join in a thread on this topic.

In terms of a subforum on nutrition, there should be enough general interest in the topic to make that a more viable option.

[pumper]

Originally Posted by kstreeter513

I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.
So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

Just my opinion here...not that much experience to back it up. In my mind, the huge importance of the post workout meal is questionable. It makes sense on paper, but I'm not certain that it has been scientifically proven. Most of the articles that talk about the importance of the post workout meal are written by people who have no scientific training-so, in my mind, many of them might not know what they are talking about. My issue is that they talk about the post-exercise period as a time when the blood stream is COMPLETELY empty of all nutrients (carbs, proteins) which is something that I don't believe happens to that level, especially in a person with a good diet. However, it does make sense that the blood stream would have fewer nutrients in it.

[pumper]

Originally Posted by kstreeter513

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

Sorry dude for two postings-got interrupted.

My bottom line...You'll still pack on muscle even if you don't have a post-workout meal (or the "perfect") post workout meal because in my opinion, there are always nutrients floating around in your blood stream and because your body rebuilds muscle for several days after a workout. So, your window of opportunity shouldn't be that short (ie, its not like you only have 1 hr in which a post-workout meal is effective...)

Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

Let me know what you think.

[xMenace]

Originally Posted by pumper

So, you lift?

I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by pumper

.... if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.....

I think that is one of those YMMV things. I have always been lean and have had great difficulty building muscle. This was in spite of strenuous resistance workouts and eating lots of meat, fish, chiken and eggs at meal times. It all changed when I started having a full-cream milk based protein shake after resistance workouts. I lost a lot of muscle while recovering from a back injury. Post-workout protein shakes enabled me to build a fair amount of muscle very quickly. I was delighted, and I am still kicking myself for relying on mealtime protein for all those years ....

[pumper]

Originally Posted by xMenace

I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts

Excellent-you've got the exact opposite problem that most bodybuilders have...(ie huge upper body, tiny legs). Like you, I find that I can put mass on my legs much more easily than anywhere else... and a good pair of muscular legs can be as inpressive as a good bicep peak.

Originally Posted by xMenace

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

Wow-lifting with your son... won't you be the cool dad (I can only hope to do the same with my own kids when they get old enough (currently in the "oven"...). Good luck with that!!!

[kstreeter513]

Originally Posted by pumper

Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

Let me know what you think.

See, this is where I am strange I suppose. My exercise of choice is running so to keep from going low during a run (which happens very quickly if I don't adjust insulin) I reduce my basal insulin about three hours before I start. By the time I begin my jog, my BG is about 150, and my circulating insulin is low.

For runs under one hour, a normal I:C ratio works well to cover any post exercise carbs. For runs lasting 2+ hrs., I need to approximately triple the insulin to cover a given number of carbs even though my BG's are always around 100 when I finish running.

My only guess here is that my stress hormones (glucagon, epinephrine, etc.) are extremely elevated due to the energy demands placed on my body. I think it takes that much more insulin to bring these hormones down to a normal level. If I don't triple the insulin, the sugars will easily be in the 300-400 two hours later.

I do, however notice that after the initial PWO bolus, I will be very insulin sensitive for the next few DAYS following a long run.

[Sugarhead]

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

[pumper]

Originally Posted by Sugarhead

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

Yes, I've heard of that, but I'm not quite certain how to do it... I know that non-diabetic bodybuilders take insulin as a growth hormone (which is very dangerous) but obviously how they do it might not apply to you and I...

I'm currently trying to figure that out myself and have a few good leads on it. I'll post something here once I've figured it out.

But maybe some other people on this thread know how to do it?

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by Sugarhead

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

Here's an idea. It may not be sexy and fast, but it will work.

The secret to getting fitter, to getting in better shape, the secret is putting in the time and working at it.

If you want to get leaner, you need to watch what you eat.

If you want to get more muscular, you'll need to do strength training, you can use weights or bodyweight exercises for that.

I think it's dangerous when people and we're all susceptible to this, think about how can we shortcut the process. When we think, "Instead of thinking how if I work at it for year where will I be, how can I maybe just mess around with how I dose my insulin to have everything happen faster?"

From what I've been able to do and learn about over the past year, I think guys like Ross Enamait have good programs to teach people about the principles behind getting in better shape, becoming more fit, more muscular, and losing fat. Stonglifts.com is another decent site with good advice.

Following those principles and working at them consistently will make you leaner and more muscular as long as you follow your diabetic responsibilities of doing your best to make your metabolism function like the normal population's.