[Ronin]

Fellow Cyclists of DF:

I've been experimenting with pedaling styles and wondered if others may have used one of the following to their advantage:

When spinning the pedals it is important to "pull through" the bottom of the stroke and actually bring the pedal back up. However, sometimes I read the instruction to "lift" and others say "pull."

The lift makes a nice circle and an even spin but the back side adds no power.

Pulling also makes a good spin but adds some additional power to the pedal stroke from using the hamstrings as well as the quads.

I like the feel of the power, but I find that I'm pulling my butt into the saddle and if I pull too hard I actually cause my hips to rock from side-to-side (not good -- really not good)

So the question for all you spinners is: Do you simply lift or do you actually pull-up on the backside of the pedal stroke and why?

[sprzepiora]

Well, since I just started biking I just mash the peddles I have been thinking that like lifting weights proper form is the key and that I probably am not doing it. So if you have any pointers please post them.

[type2rider]

When I first started riding a couple years ago, I was a masher. I was limited while climbing some of the steeper mountain bike trails. Then I got spd pedals and started doing the "pull up" motion on the upstroke.

Now that I have thousands of miles under my belt (road and mtn bikes), I apply power to the pedal throughout the entire motion. With practice it will become second nature. You will have more power, less stress on the joints, and you will have increased endurance since you are not burning out one particular muscle.

I was just discussing this with my friend who just got into biking.

[REDLAN]

There are actually 4 components to the pedal stroke - the point is to ensure that the pedal stroke is as circular as possible. The components are as follows

1) Downstroke - everyone can do this pretty naturally without thinking.

2) Bottomstroke. At the bottom of the stroke, the foot is pulled parallel with the ground. It's the same sort of motion you would make when trying to scrape something off the bottom of your shoe. This technique extends the portion of the stroke over which you can apply power

3) Upstroke. The idea here is not to actually pull up, but instead think about driving the knee towards the bars. This helps to round off the stroke. Upstroke only really matters at low cadences on hills. Everywhere else when you're spinning the idea is to ensure that the downstroke leg is not having to lift the upstroke leg. The amount of power you are able to deliver when spinning with an upstroke is negligible.

4) topstroke. If you drive the knee towards the bar, then the topstroke will take care of itself. Your foot simply loops over the top and into the downstroke.

I learnt this stuff from a book by Ned Overend.

If you have clipless pedals, there is a drill you can practice to improve your stroke. Choose a reasonably flat piece of road, change down a gear and unclip one side and then pedal with the other leg. After a bit swap legs.

The first time I did this the results were somewhat amusing

It does improve smoothness in the stroke though. Although I am still better with my right leg rather than my left.

[Ronin]

Redlan, et al.,

Point #3 in your list is the exact point of my question. There seem to be two schools of thought on the issue of the "upstroke."

What Mr. Overnend posits is the "lift" school of thought. Just sufficient effort to make sure that your power stroke on the opposite leg doesn't have to lift the other leg as well.

That being said, there are those who actually put some oomph into that upstroke thereby using both sides of the leg muscles.

I've seen the "Pro's" pull out of their pedals in finish line sprints so I guess they must be putting a lot of effort not only into the downstroke, but the upstroke as well. Therefore, this move must add considerable power not to mention added speed.

The basis of my orignial post was to query the active cyclists to see how many of my fellow cyclists are in the strong upstroke community versus the spinning community with a mild upstroke.

[dex123]

i ride flats normally so no pulling 4 me, unless im road biking, where i do this when standing up on an extreme climb or putting on a burst of speed

[Ronin]

Hi Everyone:

Today we did an "experiment" on the tandem. Once a week we try to do some interval training and we try to do it the day prior to a scheduled rest day and seeing as tomorrow we have a lot of scheduled items today was perfect.

So, we decided to test out using a firm pull on the upstroke, although not strong enough to make our hips rock (actually easier to type than to do).

What we discovered was that there is a whole lot of power available when you do that and the resulting speed increase is awesome. The downside is that it just is not sustainable for more than about five minutes at a time.

As with all intervals, the first gives the most results and each successive one slows down a bit from the first. Of course, in recovery days you get stronger as a result of having done the interval training.

I guess I answered my original question.

Reactions, Comments, Questions,...

[Axel Slinger]

I don't use toeclips because I think they are dangerous, thus no pulling up for me either. I always believed that if you ever have to get your feet on the ground in a hurry you will not want your feet to be tied to the peddles, and since that is exactly what toeclips do, that is why I don't use them. I just don't go for having my feet tied to the peddles.

I do however tend to place my feet on the peddles in the same position as you would if you had toeclips, because it does increase your power level. The power from each stoke is much more efficient.

[Ronin]

Hi Axel!

Everyone is entitled to his own beliefs. I don't use "Toeclips" (those are the cages into which you put your shoe) but I do use the SPD-SL system of shoe cleats and pedals that connect me to the pedals.

Are these dangerous? No more dangerous than ski-bindings to a skier. Make them too tight and you will have a problem, but at the proper adjustment a simple sideways twist will have you released in a instant.

The most important thing is that you do keep active and if bicycling with block pedals is your thing that is fine with me.

[dar917]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Fellow Cyclists of DF:

I've been experimenting with pedaling styles and wondered if others may have used one of the following to their advantage:

When spinning the pedals it is important to "pull through" the bottom of the stroke and actually bring the pedal back up. However, sometimes I read the instruction to "lift" and others say "pull."

The lift makes a nice circle and an even spin but the back side adds no power.

Pulling also makes a good spin but adds some additional power to the pedal stroke from using the hamstrings as well as the quads.

I like the feel of the power, but I find that I'm pulling my butt into the saddle and if I pull too hard I actually cause my hips to rock from side-to-side (not good -- really not good)

So the question for all you spinners is: Do you simply lift or do you actually pull-up on the backside of the pedal stroke and why?

Do you mean sort of pointing your toes down and then pushing against the pedal on the uptake? Cuz I don't do that, not on purpose anyway....

[Ronin]

Hi Dar!

The lifting/pulling on the upstroke requires that you are using either toe-clips or cleats. That allows you to actually pull up during the upstroke because you are connected to the pedals.

As I mentioned in a later post, this does add power & speed but I also found that it is really not sustainable for long periods of time.

[dar917]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Hi Dar!

The lifting/pulling on the upstroke requires that you are using either toe-clips or cleats. That allows you to actually pull up during the upstroke because you are connected to the pedals.

As I mentioned in a later post, this does add power & speed but I also found that it is really not sustainable for long periods of time.

Ah OK! Thanks. Yeah, I don't think I would like to use toe clips either. Maybe for long commutes on smooth road, but in the city? No way!!

[Ronin]

Hi Dar!

The use of cleats/toe-clips is really about the particular sub-culture of bicycling that you belong to. They are not for everyone.

Linda and I are part of the sub-culture that is spandex clad, helmet wearing, cleated shoes, drop bars, narrow tire, high-zoot bike people that ride both for exercise/training as well as speed.

I'm even one of those males who shaves his legs during the cycling season for a whole host of reasons (vanity, ready for road rash, massage friendly, but mostly vanity - I've got great leg muscles).

Are we competitive? Yeah, pretty much for our age group although we do not "race" but do love to pass other people on the road, particularly those that are decades younger than we are.

Other cyclists use their bikes for transportation and ride traditional block pedals and that is just fine with me. Whatever reason you ride is your decision and does not increase or decrease my respect for anyone who rides a bike with regularity.

[Gordonm]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Hi Dar!

The use of cleats/toe-clips is really about the particular sub-culture of bicycling that you belong to. They are not for everyone.

Linda and I are part of the sub-culture that is spandex clad, helmet wearing, cleated shoes, drop bars, narrow tire, high-zoot bike people that ride both for exercise/training as well as speed.

I'm even one of those males who shaves his legs during the cycling season for a whole host of reasons (vanity, ready for road rash, massage friendly, but mostly vanity - I've got great leg muscles).

I am one of those weenies also. Although I have not shaven my legs (yet). After riding for many miles in toe cleats, I use Look cleats, I would never go back. The power you get is wayyy better. As far as unclipping that is not even an issue. I can get out of them quite fast when needed. Yes I have fallen over but it was my own dumb fault, quite comical when it happened and I just laughed it off. I clop around in my big cleats when walking but they are not made for walking, just transfering power. The SPDs and egg beaters my wife uses are much better for walking. You just have to get used to them and be confident about your biking.

[Ronin]

Hi Gordon!

My SPD-SL's are actually a bit bigger than the Look cleats. My first cleats were the small SPD's and they work okay, but don't hold the shoe as well as the larger platform, the SL's also remove the "hot-spot" that the small cleats can make you feel.

My wife still likes her small SPD's and that is fine with me -- never argue with your spouse on these issues.

There are those who fear cleats and clips largely because they are only used to block pedals. Perhaps one day they will upgrade.

That being said, I wonder if wearing cleats on a city-bike/shopping bike might make one a really strange charachter.