[DeusXM]

I've got a feeling that I'm not going to get the answer I want, but here goes anyway....

Plain and simple: If I start taking supplements to accompany my weight-training, as someone with diabetes, am I going to die?

I'll give some background: There's a lot of exercise products out there, like the Ab-Belt and other electro-stimulants, which are marketed as 'not suitable for diabetics'. I'm guessing the reason for this is because they stimulate muscles, they cause blood sugars to drop without you realising, so you go hypo and then worst case, die. I'll be honest and admit that I'm using such products because I know that they're going to affect my levels, and I take precautions in that respect. However, I'm now considering to move into dietary supplements as well, specifically a product by Chemical Nutrition (a reliable and major company), called Pro-Lean II. Basically, this product enhances your metabolism to increase fat burn, so I'm already aware that if I take this product, I'd have to reduce my insulin intake accordingly. However, it apparantly also stimulates glucogon and insulin. What I want to know is, given the fact that IMHO I'm highly responsible when controlling my diabetes, and have a great deal of experience in adjusting my insulin and sugar intake, AND also on the Humalin/Humalog 4 jab system, is whether this is likely to cause major problems that I can't compensate for.

Now, before you answer (and apologies if I sound a bit rude or offensive here, I don't intend to, I'm just trying to be firm):

I don't want answers which just say that I shouldn't use artificial suppliments.
I don't want uninformed answers.
What I'm looking for is an answer from someone with diabetes who has some experience of bodybuilding and/or diet suppliements, or someone with a qualification in dietary health.

Under normal circumstances I would ask my GP or a dietician, but recently I've become all too aware that few people in the NHS are inclined to deviate from a very strict belief in what people with diabetes should and should not do. I was told by my care team that I should never go scuba diving. I'm now a qualified Sports diver in BSAC and recently 'did' the Barrier Reef. I was told that I shouldn't 'mess around' with my insulin dose. Been doing that for 4 years now with no problems. I've lost faith with my care team and indeed the whole diabetes 'establishment' because it's quite obvious that guidelines are made by those who don't have to live with the condition and therefore don't appreciate the restrictions that are uneccessarily put on us.

Hoping for a positive answer to my question (doesn't it seem like a long time ago now!), but I'm doubtful....

Cheers

[TAutry]

DeusXM,

I have often wondered about some of the 'leaning' supplements advertised in Men's Health and exercise.bodybuilding magazines. Being diabetic, as you well know, we have to consider how anything we consume might impact our condition. I think you should try one of them if you like. I would encourage you, however, to monitor your blood sugar very closely.

I returned to a serious program of exercise last September. I have seen significant increase in strength and improvement in my appearance. As a part of my program, I monitor my blood sugar 3-4 times per day and more often if I am extremely active. I have joked on here about trying out for a cover model job. If I were serious about that, I very well might try one of the supplements that are supposed to give you the 'cut' look.

If you do try one of them, please let us know how it impacts your diabetes and whether or not it really works as advertised.

Travis

[DeusXM]

Thank you for your sensible and non-judgemental reply. I think we both knew that I was going to try this stuff anyway, so thanks for not being harsh on me

I've got hopes that this stuff is going to work as advertised, as the science behind it is pretty faultless, and just to clarify, it's not one of those 'revolutionary diet pills' that all those e-mails in my Hotmail account keep advertising! In fact, the company itself was recommended to me by the gym at my university, so I guess they've got something going for them.

Since it's fairly obvious that Pro-Lean is going to affect my glucose levels, I'll certainly be keeping a closer eye on them than usual. I'll keep you posted on what happens. To the best of my knowledge, there's absolutely no research at all on the effects of these kinds of products on people with diabetes, and such a study by a major organisation looks a bit unlikely, so I guess it's guinea pig time! Still, if someone else learns from my experience, it'll be worthwhile, whatever the result. Cheers.

[Jon]

If the muscle stimulants drop your glucose faster, and without you feeling it, it may be in your best interest to look into the glucowatch. I don't know anybody who has one, but from what I understand, it can set off an alarm if your bg starts dropping too rapidly, or falls too low. Since it tests you several times per minute, and you wear it on your wrist like a watch, it sounds like a perfect peice of excercise equipment. I don't know if sweating will affect the readings though.

[Harold]

Try it, monitor a lot and keep an eye on your ketones. Let us know what you find out. The Gluco I checked every twenty minutes and I believe the II does it every ten and sweating plays havoc with the readings.

Good Luck!

[AmyMA3]

WOW!

I never heard of that, Jon...must be a new thing. How does it get a reading on the wrist?

Amy

[DeusXM]

I think the Glucowatch has been around for about a year or so now. In theory it's a great idea, but personally I don't like them, because the watch costs about £300, and pads are single use and cost about £1 each, and I'm loathe to spend cash like that. If it was cheaper (and as effective as normal blood testing), then I might consider it, but for now I think I'll stick with my old and trusty Glucotrend. Cheers for the tips though everyone.

[TAutry]

DeusXM,

I think you will do fine with the monitor you have. Initially, you will have to monitor a bunch while you try to determine exactly how the supplements affect your blood sugar. Of course you will monitor before and after workouts, I would also recommend checking your blood sugar before bedtime, if you don't already. I have found that my sugar drops an average of 40 points during the night. If I exercise late in the evening I normally have to eat a snack before bed or I will be awakened by a low, some very low.

Although we are assuming that these supplements will have some effect on your blood sugar, it may or may not be significant. The nature of supplements is variable. Some people have great response from them, others barely notice a difference.

Good Luck with it.

Travis

[DeusXM]

Pro-Lean: Initial Report

I've been taking this stuff for 24 hours, and already it's having a very marked effect on me, and I'm already starting to have second thoughts. Although 24 hours is by no means enough time to make any accurate judgements, I can already make some conclusions.

1. This particular suppliment SERIOUSLY affects glucose levels. Since taking it, my BMs are averaging around 12-14, and effectively I've had to double my insulin dose just to get a reasonable reading.

2. This product also contains an appetite suppressant, which could be potentially VERY dangerous. Last night I had a reading of 2.4, and yet I didn't feel hypo in the slightest, not hungry at all, so I'm very glad I checked.

3. This stuff raises your body temperature like nothing else. It's 15oC here, and I want to walk round in my underwear because I feel so hot.

HOWEVER: It's fully possible that these effects are being amplified by my student lifestyle. Alcohol has a huge effect on my levels anyway, and I've been out drinking every night, so this is by no means a fair test. I'll keep you posted, because 24 hours really isn't enough time to make a judgement.

[Jon]

It doesn't sound like you are off to a very good start. I would definately avoid the alcohol for a while if you are going to continue taking those supplements.

Pay attention to anything abnormal with your heart also. Blood pressure changes or chest pains. Many diet pills can cause major heart problems. I am sure you have heard about the recent Phen-fen problems. People losing weight like crazy and feeling good, then all of the sudden their heart stops.

Good luck!

[mweber]

deusXM
what other supplements do you take,I lift weights on a 5 day a week workout schd..I currently use optimum nutrition pro complex protien,gen's creavescent creatine,a multi vitamin,4000mg of vitamin c,glucosamine & chondroitin and gin sing.I would be thankful of any info since there isnt much out their.

[DeusXM]

Currently I don't use any other supplements. However, from personal experience I know that vitamin C affects blood sugar in a very detrimental way, and also that such large quantites are proven to have no effect on improving the immune system. Certainly Vit C helps, but only up to a certain amount. How much exactly, I can't remember, but its a lot less than 4000mg.

Returning to Pro-Lean, I'm pleased to say that I've sorted myself out. My bg's now normal cuz I've increased my dose, and in fact I'm probably better controlled because now I'm testing up to 6 times a day. I'm also able to spot hypos better again now. However, the stuff does raise your body temperature, but I'll confess that I was VERY hungover when I wrote my last post, which pretty much explains my inital symptoms anyway.

As for actual fat loss, the product is having the effect I'd expected, a reasonable amount, but obviously not a miracle cure. I've now expanded my fitness routine anyway, since it's almost impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time, so I've taken up squash in an effort to get my cardio sorted out, as well as continuing to lift weights.

Therefore, after a week or so, I'm pleased to report that Pro-Lean DOES work, and providing you sensibly manage your diabetes and continue to excersise, you should not suffer any health disasters.

[DeusXM]

Well, I've finished the course, and quite obviously, I'm still alive. So, in case anyone actually IS interested in my conclusions.

In the month of taking the tablets, I lost about 2-3kg, not a massive amount really, but if you offset that with the World's Unhealthiest Lifestyle (tm), then I'm personally quite pleased.

Some things to note though:

When you take these tablets, you're really aware of them at first. Your body heat increases a heck of a lot, and you can literally feel the fat burning. After a few days of taking the tablets you notice the effects a lot less, and after a week you probably don't even notice the temp change, but if you take a break from them and start again, the cycle restarts.

Futhermore, the caffeine temporarily makes you feel wide awake, but once the burn has finished you feel very fatigued - the same kind of fatigue you feel after a heavy workout, rather than one caused by bg levels.

Ah yes, bg levels. I found I had to increase my insulin dose by about 2-3 units per jab to counteract the increase in bg, which could be caused by either the caffeine or the fact that the tablets stimulate the release of glycogen in order to remove weight. Personally I'd go with the glyco since I find that, contrary to other threads on the site, caffeine has a negligable effect on my bgs (and I drink 500ml of Red Bull A DAY!).

Something else to note: These tablets are not suitable for people with high blood pressure or heart problems, regardless of whether you have diabetes or not. Simple fact, these conditions and increased metabolism do not mix. Therefore I'm going to suggest that these tablets probably are NOT suitable for the majority of people with Type 2 diabetes since most individuals with the condition have such issues as well, but obviously if you're clear of heart problems etc. then there's probably nothing stopping you.

On the whole, if you are seriously overweight or unfit, then you probably should develop a proper exercise routine first before taking these suppliments. Pro-Lean is therefore (probably) safe for people with diabetes, providing they sensibly manage their condition and general health already.

DISCLAIMER: All the above is based on my personal experience which may or may not be an accurate reflection of other individual's situation. Therefore I cannot take responsibility for any problems arising from other people taking Pro-Lean or other weight suppliments. In other words - don't sue me if you take this stuff and something goes wrong!

[TAutry]

DeusXM,

Thanks for the very well written field report. The ads for the various fat burning supplements make them look very appealing. I'm glad you didn't suffer any adverse reactions.

Travis