honeymoon period

[shoop99]

How long should a normal honeymoon period last for people with type 1? Its been almost 6 months since diagnosed and my doc still says im still on my honeymoon.

[poodlebone]

How long should a normal honeymoon period last for people with type 1? Its been almost 6 months since diagnosed and my doc still says im still on my honeymoon.

I don't know if there's a set time. It probably depends on how early your diabetes was caught. I started feeling bad almost 2 months or so before I was actually diagnosed. By the time I ended up in the hospital I was in really bad shape. I don't remember exactly how long my honeymoon lasted but it was only a few months.

[shoop99]

well i guess mine was caught quickly...i didnt go into dka or anything.

[Funnygrl]

I'm still honeymooning at 8 months. It can last years for some people.

[Funnygrl]

well i guess mine was caught quickly...i didnt go into dka or anything.
Me neither- mine was definitely caught quickly, which I think makes the honeymoon appear to last longer.

[ngueld]

enjoy it while it lasts!

I remember my honeymoon...i would freak out whenever my blood sugar went up to 9, haha.

[Funnygrl]

enjoy it while it lasts!

I remember my honeymoon...i would freak out whenever my blood sugar went up to 9, haha.
Well, I'm over that.

[VanDamage]

my endo told me if it goes longer than a year id be a type 2 instead of 1 BUT my honeymoon just ended and i been on the honeymoon since oct 8 oh well.btw if your gonna drink booze live it up now lol.

[Funnygrl]

my endo told me if it goes longer than a year id be a type 2 instead of 1 BUT my honeymoon just ended and i been on the honeymoon since oct 8 oh well.btw if your gonna drink booze live it up now lol.
Some type 1s honeymoon for years.

[shoop99]

So how did yall figure out that it was over with?

[psilocybin]

uhmmm...fg longest ive heard was a year...i havent heard of a t1 honeymooning for years and years...i could be mistaken

[Funnygrl]

uhmmm...fg longest ive heard was a year...i havent heard of a t1 honeymooning for years and years...i could be mistaken
Not necessarily years and years, but I have read it can go on for two years. A lot depends on how early the diabetes was caught and how early insulin was used, even if small doses were needed, and early insulin intervention can prolong honeymoon.

[psilocybin]

Not necessarily years and years, but I have read it can go on for two years. A lot depends on how early the diabetes was caught and how early insulin was used, even if small doses were needed, and early insulin intervention can prolong honeymoon.

interesting....
i still havent figured out if im honeymooning still or not...

[Funnygrl]

interesting....
i still havent figured out if im honeymooning still or not...
Generally radically less than .5 units tdd per kg or weight is indicative of honeymooning.

[dbc]

Not necessarily years and years, but I have read it can go on for two years. A lot depends on how early the diabetes was caught and how early insulin was used, even if small doses were needed, and early insulin intervention can prolong honeymoon.

Maybe it's related to age at diagnosis as well early/late diagnosis.... As in the older you are at diagnosis and the earlier in the progression you are diagnosed the longer the honeymoon?

I'm now 2 years since (mis)diagnosis T2, 18 months since diagnosis T1 on the basis of blood tests, on Metformin, no insulin yet, last A1c 6.5%. Still hanging in on honeymoon...

[Tim_Roy]

Possibly. Mine was decidedly short, I think. It's so long ago (30 years), I hardly remember it.

My friend's dad got diagnosed a year or two after I did. His wife would tell my mother he'd been cured, and that their prayers were answered.
:stupid:

I don't think my mom could bring herself to tell the poor woman the truth. One would hope that his doctor had said something. Then again, this was the 70s, perhaps he wasn't seeing an endocrinologist.

[Funnygrl]

Maybe it's related to age at diagnosis as well early/late diagnosis.... As in the older you are at diagnosis and the earlier in the progression you are diagnosed the longer the honeymoon?

I'm now 2 years since (mis)diagnosis T2, 18 months since diagnosis T1 on the basis of blood tests, on Metformin, no insulin yet, last A1c 6.5%. Still hanging in on honeymoon...
What test did they decide you were type 1 based on? Even honeymooning it's very odd to chose oral agents over insulin.

[sbuff28@charter]

Dxd at 21, im still honeymooning and its comming to 6 months. My TDD is about 15 units, and my carb ratios are average 1:35g.

I found a program online that said my TDD should be 51 units. So does that mean that my panc is still running on average 70% efficency?...

My carb ratios have been pretty stable. It seems to me my honeymoon could last over a year. The last time i changed my carb ratios where a month ago. I finally tuned in my pump and now and i can maintain a premeal 78-90 and a postmeal 110 bs. Of course i always have my bad days where they get higher, But I maintain those numbers 95% of the time.


Although I'm also still hoping i can call myself type 1.5.... we'll see.....

[Funnygrl]

No, it doesn't mean your pancreas is still functioning at 70%, but it does mean your pancreas is likely to still be functioning.

Those estimates take people with type 1 and 2 into account often, so they tend to be higher for people with type 1.

[psilocybin]

my tdd is like 40 units...i am 130lbs

[poodlebone]

Generally radically less than .5 units tdd per kg or weight is indicative of honeymooning.

I weigh 155 pounds (75kg) and my TDD has been averaging about 23 units. I've been Type 1 for 19 years. 22 is quite a bit less than 37.5 (.5 x 75kg). My TDD is likely to decrease even more as my CDE had me lower my late night/morning basals and increase my dinner I:C ratio to 1:25 this afternoon. Monday's TDD was 17.85 units. I don't avoid carbs, either.

[Funnygrl]

So you are around .3 units per kg. I'm around .25. Interesting. That's just something I read somewhere. Everyone is different. I thought the estimate seemed a bit high too.

[dbc]

What test did they decide you were type 1 based on? Even honeymooning it's very odd to chose oral agents over insulin.

The GAD antibody test came in with a highish reading - like twice what it should have been (sorry, don't have the number in my head...) and the second test whose name escapes me was the clincher - normal range <1, mine came in at 29.

The original T2 diagnosis (by my G.P.) was on the basis of a GTT - I think I was something like 18-19mmol/L at the 2 hour mark!

The metformin angle was proposed by my endo when my A1c started creeping up - he seems to keep up with latest research & showed me a research paper which indicated it could be useful for T1 in the early stages. It works for me up to a point, mainly (I think) because I keep to a fairly strict low carb diet.

[dbc]

I found a program online that said my TDD should be 51 units. So does that mean that my panc is still running on average 70% efficency?...


Probably not - my endo reckons that by the time T1 diabetes is able to be diagnosed the pancreas has already lost more than 80% of the beta cells. Not sure what the basis is for that opinion.

[Funnygrl]

The GAD antibody test came in with a highish reading - like twice what it should have been (sorry, don't have the number in my head...) and the second test whose name escapes me was the clincher - normal range <1, mine came in at 29.

The original T2 diagnosis (by my G.P.) was on the basis of a GTT - I think I was something like 18-19mmol/L at the 2 hour mark!

The metformin angle was proposed by my endo when my A1c started creeping up - he seems to keep up with latest research & showed me a research paper which indicated it could be useful for T1 in the early stages. It works for me up to a point, mainly (I think) because I keep to a fairly strict low carb diet.
I've read that early insulin intervention preserves beta cell function. i'm surprised he didn't put you on insulin right away. I really see no reason for trying to postpone the inevitable with oral meds.

[HelenM]

I've read that early insulin intervention preserves beta cell function. i'm surprised he didn't put you on insulin right away. I really see no reason for trying to postpone the inevitable with oral meds.

This paper in Postgraduate Medicine online( March 2005) http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2005/03_05/nabhan.htm contains a discusion of the various treatment options in the early stages of LADA.

[Funnygrl]

From that paper:

Insulin therapy decreases endogenous insulin secretion, which in turn may slow the immune process of islet cell destruction, as shown in the Tokyo study (9). The better a patient's beta cell functioning upon entry into the study and the higher the level of his or her glutamic acid decarboxylase antibodies, the more effectively insulin preserved beta cell function.

[dbc]

I've read that early insulin intervention preserves beta cell function. i'm surprised he didn't put you on insulin right away. I really see no reason for trying to postpone the inevitable with oral meds.

I tackled him on that issue a while back - he was worried about the risk of going hypo. So we compromised - I'd come back at the next appt with detailed a bs profile to compare with the A1c.

Did that (appt was 2 weeks ago). Turns out as long as I stick to a low carb diet my 1hour PP reading is around 8.5mmol/L, 2 hour PP is 7. Highest ever 1hr was 12.8 (I was in rebellion and had pizza!!). With these numbers, many medical people would put me as pre-diabetic, technically-speaking. So the insulin decision has been put off for review till next appt.

[sbuff28@charter]

Yeah thats definatly true. After a week of really good control like 85 fasting ...105 two hour... my TDD has gone down from 15 to like 13 units. I almost went hypo a couple of times working out so i lowered my basal.

so i guess my unit/kg is .14?

I didn't think diabetes was supposed to get better 6+ months down the road. I thought be much worst off. My doc was telling me honeymooning is only a couple months....wrong....

I wanna be on a honeymoon forever! that'll be fun.

I am so thankful i have this time now where i can still give a rough estimate of everything i do and still have good numbers

[Funnygrl]

Yeah thats definatly true. After a week of really good control like 85 fasting ...105 two hour... my TDD has gone down from 15 to like 13 units. I almost went hypo a couple of times working out so i lowered my basal.

so i guess my unit/kg is .14?

I didn't think diabetes was supposed to get better 6+ months down the road. I thought be much worst off. My doc was telling me honeymooning is only a couple months....wrong....

I wanna be on a honeymoon forever! that'll be fun.

I am so thankful i have this time now where i can still give a rough estimate of everything i do and still have good numbers
It seems like both an older diagnosis age plus faster, tight control both lead to longer honeymoons.

[grdella]

Mine is .1 which is 7 tdd divided by 65kg. And that is 10 months after diagnosis. Not sure what is going on with me sometimes...I think I am going to ask my endo how they determined I am definitely type 1. I would like to see if they ran antibody test or just assumed! And I run on the low side often. I could easily lower my basal from .15 to .1 or .05 and probably be fine. I have to snack all day to stay around 100. Oh and my bolus rates are 1 unit to 90 grams and if I do not snack I will be hypo after 4 hours but right around 100 after 2 hours.

[Brouts]

stupid question...what is honeymooning? :confused:

[Funnygrl]

It's brief period after the diagnosis of type 1 when beta cells that make insulin still function, sometimes even at close to normal levels. It can last weeks to years depending on God-only-knows-what.

Given your recent diagnosis, I wouldn't be surprised if you were experiencing some of this.

[psilocybin]

well, besides getting that test done is there anyway else to tell if we are honeymooning???im extremely curios

[sbuff28@charter]

I can tell im honeymooning for a number of reasons.

1. "2 units is not twice as much as 1 unit." The more insulin i put into my body the more it replaces the amount my panc is producing. Therefore sometimes 1 unit will drop me 40 points, but 2 units will drop me 60 or 70.

2. My blood sugars will go down anyways, even if I didn't inject ANY insulin. This makes my basals really hard to pin down since i don't really even need basal. BUT I still have a .3 u/h basal because i like to rest my panc.

3. My sugars seem to balence themselves out and i can have pretty gross carb estimations and still get by.

4. I can take 8 shots of liquor and not go hypo as long as i eat 20g carbs some hours later.

[Funnygrl]

I can tell im honeymooning for a number of reasons.

1. "2 units is not twice as much as 1 unit." The more insulin i put into my body the more it replaces the amount my panc is producing. Therefore sometimes 1 unit will drop me 40 points, but 2 units will drop me 60 or 70.

2. My blood sugars will go down anyways, even if I didn't inject ANY insulin. This makes my basals really hard to pin down since i don't really even need basal. BUT I still have a .3 u/h basal because i like to rest my panc.

3. My sugars seem to balence themselves out and i can have pretty gross carb estimations and still get by.

4. I can take 8 shots of liquor and not go hypo as long as i eat 20g carbs some hours later.
Lol, the more I read about honeymooning, the more I realize I definitely am doing it still, though less and less. For me 2 units drops me twice as much as one unit, but I do get away with a lot more than I would if I wasn't honeymooning, and almost always have excellent blood sugars. My basal is a bit higher than yours (ok, twice as high), but I didn't seem to need basal at all for a long time.

[psilocybin]

anyone know of any symptoms or anything besides sky rocketing bs's that has anything to do with the honeymoon period finishing?

[trailrunner]

I am totally still honeymooning, there are some days I don't even need insulin at all, and then some days I need it with every meal. I am on 1unit/60 carb ratio, so whats that break down too? .2 per kg?

[Funnygrl]

I am totally still honeymooning, there are some days I don't even need insulin at all, and then some days I need it with every meal. I am on 1unit/60 carb ratio, so whats that break down too? .2 per kg?
The break down is based on tdd- how much is your basal? And how much bolus are you taking in a typical day?

[corwin]

I can tell im honeymooning for a number of reasons.

1. "2 units is not twice as much as 1 unit." The more insulin i put into my body the more it replaces the amount my panc is producing. Therefore sometimes 1 unit will drop me 40 points, but 2 units will drop me 60 or 70.

2. My blood sugars will go down anyways, even if I didn't inject ANY insulin. This makes my basals really hard to pin down since i don't really even need basal. BUT I still have a .3 u/h basal because i like to rest my panc.

3. My sugars seem to balence themselves out and i can have pretty gross carb estimations and still get by.

4. I can take 8 shots of liquor and not go hypo as long as i eat 20g carbs some hours later.

It's pretty similar for me only I'm on twice as much basal, about 0.7u/h. However 1u of insulin will drop me 100-120. If I'm anything below 200 taking 1u will get me hypo if I won't eat any carbs in the following 2-3 hours. The way the numbers seem to fix themselves is great, sometimes it feels like no matter what I do I'm 80-120 2 hours after eating. My carb ratio isn't as high as other honeymooners, it's about 20:1 or maybe 22 depends on the time of day.