Military Discrimination

[TShelton]

I am 22 years old and currently attending the University of
Georgia. My entire life I have wanted to serve in the
military and protect my country. Unfortunately, I am an
insulin dependent diabetic. I am in perfect health and
physically fit. I have no complications after having this
disease for over 17 years. No branch of the military will
allow me to enlist due to the fact that I am a diabetic.
Considering I am perfectly able to do anything that the
military requires, I think this is extremely unfair and
unjust. I certainly understand why they would not want a
diabetic to fill a combat position, but there are numerous
non-combat positions that a diabetic could fill. I feel that
this is a very blatent example of discrimination. I would
very much appreciate anyone who could give me some advice on
some options I might have to fight this. I could certainly
use a helping hand in this situation.

[lgvincent]

I agree. Most of the positions in the military do not involve front-line combat. The vast majority of them are in support positions. I tried for several years to serve in some branch of the military but was never able to make any headway. The government, like most large corporations is very bureaucratic in its approach to doing anything. Most organizations are created to serve a need but over time they generate so many rules that they only function to serve the rules. It's very frustrating. People are afraid to try something different, simply because it's never been done before. They are rewarded for following the rules and punished for being innovative or creative. I hope things work out for you but I believe you'd have an easier task of raising the Bismarck from the depths of the ocean than getting someone in a bureaucracy to think, it's not what they are paid to do.

[HeatherP]

Hi, and good evening! Welcome!

I commend you on your bravery and desire to serve our country. My advice would be to look into the Americans With Disabilites Act, but I don't know if that would help all that much. Perhaps contact your local gov. rep or ombudsman. I'm sorry I can't offer better advice. I wish you the best of luck.

HeatherP

[David]

I agree with Heather about looking into the Americans With Disabilities Act. The American Diabetes Assoc may have further help for you. Check out their pages at:

http://www.diabetes.org/community/advocacy/default.jsp

http://www.diabetes.org/community/advocacy/discrimination.jsp

I don't know how far you're willing to go with this, but lawsuits have been filed and won that allow T1 diabetics to now serve as law enforcement officers and firefighters. That sets a good precedent for you.

David

[TShelton]

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions. I will most definitely check into this stuff. I can't tell you the desire I have to serve in our military. I am willing to take this as far as I have to. I'm not only doing this for my own good. I truly believe that this type of descrimination needs to be exposed and changed. I wouldn't expect the military to allow just any insulin-dependent diabetic in. However, if you have tight control and are in good health, I see no reason why not. So thanks again!

[TAutry]

Hi TShelton,

Haven't seen you on the forums before. Welcome!:)

I, with the others, commend you on your desire to serve. Once upon a time, I also felt that desire and call. I passed the tests with flying colors and made it to the military physical. I flunked. I was 17 and devastated. I was equal to or better than my peers in what I could do, however the military said "no". I even asked for a waiver and was denied. To this day I have the utmost respect and admiration for the men and women of our military. After some years passing, I realized the rules did me a favor.

I went on to be a volunteer firefighter and a certified EMT. I have for the last several years led a non-profit organization that works in my hometown to support cultural events and activities. While it hasn't been military service, it has still served my community and, hopefully, done some good.

I understand your desire to fight the system. I believe you will find much more contentment by finding ways to serve where you are, however. Whether we like it or not, the military has guidelines. Where some might be able to take anything they throw at you and achieve, most will not.

Good Luck!

Travis

[TShelton]

I appreciate your advice Travis. And I fully plan on becoming a law enforcement officer should my fight against this policy fail. But as of now, I am still holding out some hope that I can help to change things. As I stated, I really think that this is discrimination. And this is coming from someone who is as far to the right as they come politically. I plan to fight this though. Thanks again.

[mg_2204]

Hello TShelton!

I understand it was your dream to serve. My son had the same one so I know what you mean. My son has finished his basic training and has gone to Germany for 6 years. He is spending Christmas with us and we are soooo happy to have him with us! He will be sent to Iraq soon...

Although you're fit and healthy, let me just say your decision to join the Army would concern me greatly if you were my son. From what I've heard (and seen when Marc came back home) basic training would... kill you.

They push you beyond your limits... and then some. Physically and mentally. You sleep out in the cold, do with little rations, little or no sleep, under constant scrutiny and insult and verbal abuse. Marc came back home once sick as a dog. Two days later, on the Sunday, he was due back at the camp. He could barely stand up but had to go back, no matter what. Upon arrival, he could hardly breathe. Pneumonia! What did they do? Gave him pills and... his training continued. Sometimes he couldn't even take his medicine, no time and... not even allowed to. He can't even explain how he managed but Marc pulled through somehow. He had this nasty cough for months. Many were sick, they all got very sick at one point or another. Builds character they said to them!

So I don't know... I am certain you would serve your country extremely well and I don't doubt your abilities and capacities to do so. But since I have my son's basic training so fresh to my memory still... and as a mother, I would be concerned about YOUR well being.

Don't get me wrong; I think it's wrong to discriminate someone because of diabetes. But since a military career involves basic training... and much danger to your health... perhaps it would be a good idea to inquire about this basic training first?

Keep us posted on what happens next, ok?

The very best to you!

Marie

[TShelton]

Marie,

Thank you for your reply. Tell your son that I am extremely proud of him and I wish him the very best. As for the Basic Training, I have done my research. My brother just completed Basic at Fort Benning for the Infantry, and explained that he knows I could make it through that. I have spoken with countless recruiters and military personnel. After all I have learned, I truly believe that I would make it through. There is also another bright spot for me. I am currently enrolled at the University of Georgia full-time. This would make me eligible for the ROTC program. After ROTC, I would enter the military as an officer. ROTC takes the place of Basic Traing, so I would not have to endure that. So thank you for your help and concern. Merry Christmas!

Trey

[TAutry]

Trey,

I'm glad you mentioned ROTC. Maybe you should contact the campus commander or his staff and inquire as to the physical requirements. I think you will find that you will not be eligible for ROTC.

As far as whether or not you could make it through basic training: The Army doctor that disqualified me from military service told me that he had no doubt that I could complete basic training but I did not meet the physical requirements.

Pursuing law enforcement is a fine career choice. It isn't the military, though. Police officers, sherriffs and highway patrol officers work shifts and at the end of the day go home. That is considerably different from what is frequently required of career military personnel. Irregular hours, deprivation and extreme exertion can play havoc with your health and well being, particulary with diabetes.

If you think that you can make a career in the military happen without doing what is required for basic training, you are mistaken. There is a reason ROTC takes the place of much of basic training: It is Hard Work! Even if are accepted into and complete ROTC, there is no guarantee that you will be assigned to active duty. Not every newly commissioned officer is. If you do, however, you will be required to make rank within specified periods to keep your commission. The guys in public relations don't usually climb very high or make rank very quickly. The path to rank lies in combat for most officers and enlisted men. No one wins commendations for writing good press releases or typing neat reports. Achieving in the military means leading troops into battle and coming back to tell the tale. You can't do that from some rear area post.

Let's get realistic. Your desire to fight the military guidelines prohibiting diabetics from service has nothing to do with discrimination or helping anybody else. This is about your bruised ego. I know, I had that too. It took me years to come to grips with mine. In some way, I felt that I was looked down upon because a group of doctors and their guidelines told me I didn't measure up as a man. I ran around trying to prove I did. What I accomplished was making a fool of myself, hurting some people and wasting a few years of my life. One day I woke up and put all that energy into doing other things. Since then I have been much happier and much more productive.

I am confident you will not take my advice. You will have to learn on your own. We males of the species are often that way. Pursue your challenge of the system all you like. Before you start, though, be prepared because you are setting yourself up for further disappointment. You will not win. Even if you had O. J. Simpson's dream team of lawyers behind you and millions of dollars to spend, I don't believe you would make a dent.

If this post seems harsh for a Christmas night's ramblings, it probably is. It is also the honest truth as I see it.

Travis

[mg_2204]

No one is harsh... it's called caring. And we're all here because we do care. Caring is telling someone our concerns and worries too you know! And highly interesting to read from all of you guys.

:)

Marie

[WiseWords]

Originally posted by TShelton
I am 22 years old and currently attending the University of Georgia.
My entire life I have wanted to serve in the military and
protect my country. Unfortunately, I am an
insulin dependent diabetic.
I am in perfect health and physically fit.
I have no complications after having this
disease for over 17 years.
No branch of the military will allow me to enlist
due to the fact that I am a diabetic.
Welcome to the real world.
I believe you, when you suggest that your health is without
complications, although technically,
it cannot be called "perfect health."
After only 17 years, if you have been properly taking care of
yourself, you should be without any serious complications.
However, that does not mean some things will not develop
further on down the line. If you want to make it a career,
suppose that in ten to fifteen years, or when you are in your
mid to late thirties, you develop hypoglycemic unawareness ?
Even now, without that issue, I know that I wouldn't want someone
to be walking around in my presence with a machine gun and
a low blood sugar !
Originally posted by TShelton
Considering I am perfectly able to do anything that the
military requires, I think this is extremely unfair and unjust.
You could have issues that prevent you from doing things
that a non-diabetic can do.
For instance, in times of combat, under stress,
even at the motor pool, or while doing KP,
and more so if in an unexpected combat situation,
perhaps while guarding a museum in Iraq,
what if you got low, and were shaky or unsteady in your thoughts?
What if you got high, and had to take a piss, or were fatigued,
while you were supposed to be guarding a day-care center,
or some Moslem women? Gonna pull it out and take a pee in front
of them because your blood sugar is high?
Sure, these are contrived examples, but they could happen.
The military can't take that chance. Fair? Of course not, but
that's the way it is, and I think it should be so !

What if you needed to go on an unexpected march when your
BG was low ? Sounds to me like you are not being realistic.

Diabetics are also prevented from being taxi-cab drivers,
long distance 18-wheel truck drivers, and commercial pilots.
Fair? Would you want to be in a small car alongside of an
18-wheel truck when the driver got low? Or in a plane,
with a low pilot? What if it was hijacked, and he could not
eat on time? I realize that some truck drivers may be high on
pills to keep them awake, or some pilots might have had a
drink before getting behind the controls, but
two wrongs don't make a right.

Fact is, as much as you do not like it,
you are unfit for military duty in a combat or other
possible difficult situation. Even if they try to put you in a
behind-the-scenes area, that would represent discrimination
to those who are risking their lives on the front lines.

Originally posted by TShelton
I certainly understand why they would not want a
diabetic to fill a combat position, but
there are numerous non-combat positions that a diabetic could fill.
(see above comments) There could be some solutions,
although they would involve preferential treatment.
Presently, they do not exist in the US military.

Israel does offer alternative service to men and women
whose religious convictions prevent them from serving in
areas where they may have to take a life.
Personally, I think all armies should operate
that way for everyone, but that is a separate editorial.

In a situation with preferential treatment,
you would still need to complete basic training,
(or ROTC which is pretty much the same and then some),
and have access to weapons that kill, which is not good
when you are low.
Nor is driving a truck, peeling potatoes, or digging latrines.
What if you were going across the Iraqi desert as a truck driver,
and lunch was late? Or would you also want preferential
treatment so that you would not have needed to go to Iraq?
Might have made some soldiers upset with you, and
rightfully so.
The religious Jews in Israel serve in non-military positions
in areas separate from the army.
There are such areas in this country, as the Peace Corps,
VISTA, and numerous community centers or projects.
I would dare say that more good could be done in any of those
projects than in the military, although you wouldn't get to be
a macho, gun-toting, GI-Joe !
Originally posted by TShelton
I feel that this is a very blatent example of discrimination.
I would very much appreciate anyone who could give me some advice
on some options I might have to fight this.
I could certainly use a helping hand in this situation.
Some of this type of "discrimination" is designed for the
protection of others, as I have pointed out.
I also felt that it was grossly unfair when I could not
earn a few extra dollars one summer between college breaks,
as a taxi-cab driver, but I understood the reasoning, even if
it did not apply to me, at that time. And, I wasn't planning
to retire as a cab-driver.

If you want to attempt to fight it, you could try talking to the ACLU,
although I am not at all sure they would be interested.
Depends on who you talk to, and how well you present
your side of the story.

As you would be up against the military,
your chance of getting them to admit that they might be wrong,
is very doubtful.
Then the other side, is what if you had a chance at wining,
and diabetics could be drafted, at a later date, as a result
of your "victory?" There would probably be a lot of people
with diabetes who would want you to lose !

I do think that your best bet would be to pursue other
avenues of service to your country.
I believe that even Jimmy Carter is looking for a few good carpenters.
;)

[Harold]

I certainly understand why they would not want a
diabetic to fill a combat position, but there are numerous
non-combat positions that a diabetic could fill.

Having been in the military and knowing this sort of goes against the PR put out I have a suprise for you. The military considers all postions in it's ranks as combative. When everything goes wrong they hand everyone a rifle.

[bigsapper]

And remember that PVT Lynch was a cook in a 2nd echelon maintenance unit.

As a combat vet, I can tell you that the military is correct in denying access to type 1s. I'd go back in a heartbeat if they would take me.

You obviously have a strong desire to serve your country. There are many ways to do that than serving in the military. You should focus your energy in that direction.

Good luck.

[Jon]

I am curious about why you want to join the military. Is it for the benefits like the paid college and the free medicall, or is it because you like the look of the uniforms and the prestige of serving the country? Instead of fighting a losing battle, maybe you could find another way that you could serve the country and meet your needs. Or maybe this will inspire you to find a way to cure this **** disease so that we don't have this problem anymore.

Funny, I was just telling my son that one of the advantages to being diabetic is that he never has to worry about being drafted!

[EdnBama]

Do the rules about diabetics apply on to the Army, or also other services, such as the Air Force.

My dad is retired Air Force ... and I know that there are many jobs on AFB's that would be no more risky for a diabetic than are for me working for the state government.

I certainly understand that there are reasons for not putting a diabetic in a position like combat or even guarding something.

But there are many positions, especially stateside, where someone can serve without being a threat to national interests or his or her fellow servicemen/women.

The Army isn't made up only combat troops, just as the Air Force isn't all pilots.

--Ed

[bigsapper]

While most "peacetime" duties give an impression of a ???-type duty, in fact all service members regardless of branch need to be prepared for combat. An entire nation's fate depends on it. You can't get any more "in the rear with the gear" than a cook in a 2nd echelon maintenance unit. And they ended up on the wrong side of the stick big time.

Make no mistake, the military service is no place for compromising, regardless of branch or duty position. Some of the highest decorated vets at my local VFW post were in the Coast Guard.

Remember, there *are* other ways to serve your country. Simply being an honest, productive member of society without being a burden on your fellow citizens is a fine and worthy start.

[EdnBama]

With no disrespect to my dad ... but I doubt if all heck had broken loose, he would have been in the combat loop as a stateside paralegal in the Air Force.

Not to be argumentative ... but regardless of how many servicemen and servicewomen are sent on active combat missions, there are plenty of jobs of an administrative-type nature that will still have to be filled at bases and posts in the US, not to mention the Pentagon.

If we consider the suggestions that a diabetic can serve by being a civilian police officer -- what's the difference between that and being an MP at a stateside Army post or a Security Policeman/woman at a stateside Air Force base?


--Ed

[EdnBama]

... by the way ...

... imagine that, tshelton ... an Auburn man standing up for a Georgia man!

:p

--Ed

[bigsapper]

Not to be argumentative ;) ...
But the *first* duty and responsibility of *any* servicemember is to be able to pickup a rifle and fire it in the general direction of the enemy. That's why basic rifle marksmanship is one of the first things *all* servicemembers learn.

It's nice to have a warm, fuzzy feeling for the personnel who are able to perform their war-time mission from the percieved comfort & security of national soil. But there's a lot of risk here at home. Don't forget the 184 souls that perished at the Pentagon on 9/11. Also, it's feasible that we become embroiled in a conflict that requires *all* personnel to deploy.

Anyway, military policy is what it is. Doubtful that this will change although there are medical exceptions granted for exceptional cases. Here's one. (http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2003/12/marine_with_pro.html)

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Happy Holidays!

[EdnBama]

I guess I'm just not seeing any real difference between certain jobs in the military (regardless of branch) and the level of risk with police officers.

If anything, police might be considered to have more significant risk since they have potential to deal with problems everyday rather than just when called to active duty.

And I certainly don't believe that just because the policy is what it is that no one should question it or that people should assume it won't change.

There should be an open dialogue and, if change is worthwhile or warranted, it should be implemented. But likewise, if change is problematic, it should be avoided.

However, the status quo shouldn't be maintained merely because it is the status quo ... and people shouldn't find artificial reasons (or prejudicial reasons ... or ignorant reasons) for limiting people with diabetes from being public servants ... especially at a time when we are being told there aren't enough people in the service to properly maintain proper troop strengths and guardsmen/women are being called for extended periods of deployment.

And frankly, although we all know that there won't be a case where every single armed forces member is called to a combat zone, if they were ... then we'd probably be in a heck of a mess and will be glad to have anyone and everyone capable of holding gun -- military or civilian -- diabetic or non-diabetic -- taking up arms to protect our interests.

--Ed

[mccubbij]

I was in the regular ARMY when I was diagnosed with T1. I was immediately pulled from duty as a Satellite Communications Equipment Repair Tech. I worked in an air conditioned non-combat environment. I had to move to a class-room environment where I had to teach. It took eight months and a medical review board but they managed to put me out.