Grrrrrrr!

[Petruchio]

Type II, Dx'ed in March. I take Metformin ER 500 in the morning, and Metformin ER 750 with Dinner.

If I test first thing when I wake up, I am 160 to 190. If I wait about a hour before testing (still fasting) my BS is 110 to 130. I guess this is the dawn thingie you guys talk about. Is there any way to get a handle on it?

[duck]

Dawn Phenomenon.

It could be, it may not be. DP is an increase in blood glucose typically in your pre-waking hours. There are those who disagree and say any increase in morning sugars is DP...If that were true, than what does an afternoon increase in blood sugars signify, dawn phenomenon in the afternoon? According to the ADA:


dawn phenomenon (feh-NAH-meh-nun)
the early-morning (4 a.m. to 8 a.m.) rise in blood glucose level.

I digress. DP is typically also marked by VERY high sugars, greater than 250. The only way to really be able to say if you are suffering from DP is to have you test before bed...if that test is "normal", 120-140, and you still wake up higher, in the 170's or higher, it could be DP or maybe you have an increased metabolic need for insulin overnight. If you do test higher in the AM, you'd be best advised to wake up and test in the early hours, ie 4AM, 5AM and 6AM to get a "trend". You don't need to do this all in one morning.

On a related note, informally here it seems that "morning people" suffer from DP. My theory is the early riser's body's start working on getting them up and ready for the world. Those of us who can sleep til noon are blessed to not get DP. :tongue:

[mg_2204]

I guess this is the dawn thingie you guys talk about. Is there any way to get a handle on it?

I know how frustrated you must feel! :banghead:

I eat a small protein 30 mins (approx) before bed. When I don't fasting sugars are always much higher.

I can't go without bread, pasta, rice, etc... but I try my best to have those at breakfast and lunch time. For supper I'll stick to veggies and a bit of lean meat. Seems to work for me.

Whenever I can I take a little walk after supper. If it's not too late...

Hope that helps a bit!

PS : Even if my sugars are nice and low throughout the day I will feel like a failure if my fasting sugars aren't below 7 mmol/L (126 mg/dL). For the last 5 weeks sugars have been doing great though, even fasting ones. Yay!

The very best to you,

[mg_2204]

On a related note, informally here it seems that "morning people" suffer from DP. Those of us who can sleep til noon are blessed to not get DP. :tongue:

But if you're sleeping (thus not testing) how can you know for sure you are not suffering from DP too? I am now curious about this.

I am a morning person, never get up later than 6 am (even when I don't have to!). Sad isn't it? :)

[spike]

Type II, Dx'ed in March. I take Metformin ER 500 in the morning, and Metformin ER 750 with Dinner.

If I test first thing when I wake up, I am 160 to 190. If I wait about a hour before testing (still fasting) my BS is 110 to 130. I guess this is the dawn thingie you guys talk about. Is there any way to get a handle on it?


If you want to switch types, I might have some suggestions...




(It's a JOKE, people!!) :)

[duck]

But if you're sleeping (thus not testing) how can you know for sure you are not suffering from DP too? I am now curious about this.

I am a morning person, never get up later than 6 am (even when I don't have to!). Sad isn't it? :)

^^^That is soooo not me. If something does not wake me, I could easily sleep til noon. At one time in my life (college) I would sleep so late I'd miss the kickoff for Sunday Afternoon NFL games (kickoff at 1PM). Terrible.

Marie, I have tested that early since I am on a pump...I was testing for basal needs, and my basals don't get too whacky in the AM. I woke this morning at 61 (low). Yesterday was 112, day before at 105. And when I do wake up high as a kite, I can generally pin it on something I miscalculated.

I will admit last year, when I was working that danged job that forced me to get up at 0530, about six months into it I started going high on my commute in, whether or not I ate anything. So I adjusted my basals slightly to compensate. Maybe I was triggering something of a DP-like phenomenon, but from what I understand, DP hits in your sleep while your body is doing what it needs to do during rest.

One other thing, Petruchio: All of us release a lot of hormones in our sleep. Some of us have an issue where the hormones linger into the early waking hours, affecting blood sugars and our desire to eat. These hormones are basically the same ones that allow you to sleep for six-eight hours without having to wake to eat, and the same hormones responsible for many diabetics requiring additional insulin for breakfast than at any other time of day. So you may be "suffering" from something along those lines as well.

[Petruchio]

Thanks for the responces. To give you an idea, :
July 3rd
3 hours after dinner(8pm) = 119
Midnight = 94
July 4
wake (9am) = 169
Before Breakfast(10am) = 135
3 hours after dinner = 121

I usually get up around 9am to 10am. I go to bed between 2am and 3am. I used to work graveyard shift for 25 years. I guess the hours kinda stick with you. :dontknow:

My target is BS of 100 to 120. Maybe one of these days I will get a handle on this stuff. :stupido2:

[4519]

Just a note. The typical time after eating to check is 2 hours. By then you should come down to your target.

Why are you shooting so high? Below 100 is the ideal target range. Myself I check 60 to 90 minutes to see where I peaked. I know I will come down in 2 hours. If you don't come down to your target range in 2 hours then you are 'over-driving' your diet or not on the correct medicines or not taking enough of them. This is a mulit-sided problem, not always that easy to pin point why your numbers are high.

[mg_2204]

I have tested that early since I am on a pump. I woke this morning at 61 (low). Yesterday was 112, day before at 105. And when I do wake up high as a kite, I can generally pin it on something I miscalculated.

I will admit last year, when I was working that danged job that forced me to get up at 0530, about six months into it I started going high on my commute in, whether or not I ate anything.

Thanks for the info! So you've tested and you've seen a diff between getting up really early and getting up later.

I am doomed... :banghead:

Are ALL early risers bound to be badly affected by the dawn syndrome?

Any good reads about dawn syndrome by the way? Thanks in advance!

[Penny]

Thanks for the info! So you've tested and you've seen a diff between getting up really early and getting up later.

I am doomed... :banghead:
!

Me too! The only time I can sleep late is when I am very sick, and then it usually no later than 9. I have woke at 4 or 5 in the morning an tested, I am always low...60 to 80. But if I go back to bed until 7 without eating anything, I always test high. A couple of times, I ate, took my medicines and some Novolog, to cover what I ate when I couldn't go back to sleep. Those times I never went high. I do have a small snack before I go to bed, between 11 and 1. It doesn't seem to make a difference. I always envied people who could sleep 8 hours or more a night.

[duck]

Me too! The only time I can sleep late is when I am very sick, and then it usually no later than 9. I have woke at 4 or 5 in the morning an tested, I am always low...60 to 80. But if I go back to bed until 7 without eating anything, I always test high. A couple of times, I ate, took my medicines and some Novolog, to cover what I ate when I couldn't go back to sleep. Those times I never went high. I do have a small snack before I go to bed, between 11 and 1. It doesn't seem to make a difference. I always envied people who could sleep 8 hours or more a night.

I wonder if you have "rebound highs", where your body detects the low and says "Hey Mr. Liver, gimme some sugar!"? But again, if you can't sleep in, I'd call you a "Morning Person", and your morning highs are consistent with the duck's informal survey.

[duck]

Thanks for the info! So you've tested and you've seen a diff between getting up really early and getting up later.

I am doomed... :banghead:

Are ALL early risers bound to be badly affected by the dawn syndrome?

Any good reads about dawn syndrome by the way? Thanks in advance!

I dunno if all early risers are bound to be affected badly...I don't think I did a poll, but I seem to recall making a thread about this and asking people who suffered from DP if they were "morning people" and I don't think there was any variation. Maybe time for another poll, no?

I have to add one caveat about the highs I was getting while commuting to my last job...I have never worked in a more stressful job, ever. I hated the commute, I hated the city and though "hate" is a strong word to apply to people, I literally hated some of my co-workers, as they were just about genuinely evil. So I know while riding the train in, I would just well up with stress, so that could have had something to do with it.

[gluco]

In the news lately, we are being told that we must get more sleep to ward off diseases like diabetes and cardio vascular issues. How much? More than six hours that most of us are getting.

March 15, 2006 -- Skimping on sleep or overindulging in sleep might make diabetes more likely.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/120/113592.htm

XXL from Too Few Zs? Skimping on sleep might cause obesity, diabetes
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060401/fob2.asp

Get sufficient sleep. Lack of sleep seems to cause some immune-system components to mistakenly attack the body. That may worsen autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis and also cause arterial inflammation, which contributes to heart disease. In addition, insufficient sleep impairs the function of other immune components needed to prevent disease; in one study, a single night of partial sleep deprivation slashed the activity level of natural killer cells by about a third. And lack of sleep may be harmful in other ways, too: It contributes to weight gain and diabetes by disrupting hormone levels, and it diminishes mental and physical performance.
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/crh/displayc.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=368007