Which is worse? highs or lows?

[Littlebit63_99]

I tried to "search" to see if this had been discussed before, and came up empty.

Which is worse? or causes more damage? highs or lows?

Any opinions, studies, facts? Part of the reason I'm on the transplant list is because of the swings that we (endo and I) cannot control.

Spikes' low A1C (the thread) had me curious about this issue.

BTW, Spike.......good going.

Does anyone have info on one versus the other???????????

[JasonJayhawk]

My preference -- if I'm going to chose between a high or low, I'd rather go with the high, as it will leave me living long enough to have a chance at having a low in a more controlled situation later in life. :joyman:

[DeusXM]

Highs make you feel bad but overall aren't a massive problem as long as it doesn't last for too long. Lows are more of an immediate problem and can be fatal rather quickly. Hypers kill in months, hypos kill in minutes.

[corwin]

Highs = Long term possible effect that is very small with decent average bg levels and a1c.
Lows = Possible permanent brain damage, coma and death right when it happens.
Seems like a clear choice to me.

[am1977]

Frankly, I hate highs! :argh: Just the thought that these highs can lead to possible complications is very scary to me :afraid:. Plus, they make me feel like sh!t. :rolleyes:

Lows are much easier for me to deal with (for the most part). It's so much easier for me to treat a low than for me to treat a high... hey, and it gives me an excuse to eat :eating: I know that lows for some people can be quite debilitating, but I haven't had it be that bad- ok, except for once...my little driving incident.

However, despite that one occasion, I'd take low over high any day.

[JediSkipdogg]

COrwin pretty much hit the summary dead on...

Highs...Short term highs will not cause any problems. They will give you headaches and dehydration but that's about it. Also, a semi-longer than short term high could put you in DKA, but you would need to get to around 400 mg/dl before that happens and be there about 24 hours. Long term highs are what cause problems. One, because your body gets into DKA mode more often and basically starts breaking down your cells and organs in the body. This can cause organ failure. You also risk the chance of amputation.

Lows...Lows are the opposite of highs. Short term lows are extremely bad. They can lead to one blacking out and causing harm to oneself or others, including death depending on what you are doing. Lows also make you "outta this world" just like a drunk. So you may do/say stuff that you don't remember. Now, a long term low really has no significant harm if you can maintain that low. However, it depends on how low you plan on maintaining. If you can maintain running 70 mg/dl for a week, excellent job. Just remember though, if you drop 30 points running 70, you're in the immediate danger zone.

Most people prefer to run on the high end. Myself being one of them. Doctors want patients to run 90-100 however, I prefer to stay above 100 and as close to 110 as possible. I do occasionally jump up to 300, however, I'd rather have that 300 twice a week than 40 twice a week.

[grace girl]

Even though I can control a low easier than a high, I'll take a high any day. Actually, easier isn't the word. I can control it more quickly. It takes me a little time to get a high down, but I can do it. Aside from the potential dangers, I feel horrible when I'm low, and usually for hours afterwards. (Like a drunk's hangover!)
Highs don't make me feel bad unless it goes on for days and days, which doesn't happen too much any more, thankfully.

[Littlebit63_99]

Ok, so some of this is personal preference, and, some fact. I went comatose from a low in '84.........woke to a priest giving me last rites. And, in '99 had one where I choked on my tongue and Jeff had to give me mouth to mouth.(yummy!) Sorry, had to, just had to.

But, since we all know the complications we can get from highs, and I have a neurologist who will attest to a band of brain damage from my lows,...........kind of like a head band inside the brain............mind you, I think genetics plays a part there. LOL No, seriously, lot's of strokes in family pool, no heart trouble to speak of.

I am still wondering if there are any studies which determine which is more damaging???????

Gosh, you poor people..................I must scare the living daylights out of some of you. Please be inspired to take EXTRA good care of yourselves......
I would like to have that influence on all of you, not to instill fear.

So, studies??????????????????????? Any known?
Thanx,

[Littlebit63_99]

gracegirl,

I'm with you there. A low, will make me sick for hours. Below 45, that is.

[Lex4153]

Oh, wow, what a scary experience!

I'd have to say I agree with most here. I'd rather take a high than a low. It depends on the low though. If it's just a slight low, like in the 60's or 70's, it's okay, as long as I have food by me, that is. But lows are super scary. I hate the idea that I could pass out and if I'm alone there's no one to get me help and you can go into a coma and die . . . Horrible thought.

It's better to have a good medium. I like how Jediskipdogg put it. I'd rather stay near 100-110 and take the high 300 once or twice a week than risk going below 60.

[Lex4153]

I wanted to ask about your pancreas transplant . . . what did the doctor say? Are transplants a bit more safe these days? You'd think with all the technology today we could make it more safe. Heck, we can transplant hearts, so why not pancreases? On a side note, too bad stem cell research was put to an end by our lovely President. I'd like to see him get a disease where the cure depended on stem cell research then see what he says about it . . .

[lgvincent]

I can't say. I don't feel good when my blood sugar is high but I've broken my nose at least three times, my thumb once, and broken my front teeth when my blood sugar is low so I'd have to say that is pretty bad.

[Cyborg]

Highs = Long term possible effect that is very small with decent average bg levels and a1c.
Lows = Possible permanent brain damage, coma and death right when it happens.
Seems like a clear choice to me.

:dito: Same here...

[Shotokan]

I agree that lows are more dangerous than highs. However, I try my best to avoid the high range while I sleep at night because that is such a long time to remain high. If I go high during the day, I do something about it right away. If I'm high while I'm asleep, I sleep right through it. At the same time I'm paranoid about nighttime lows. It's a balancing act for me.

[Lorna]

My personal preference wqould be the high, but think the long term complications are more likely from highs, theres an article in last months ballance about complications from lows, not sure if you can read it online from outwith the uk.

[spike]

gracegirl,

I'm with you there. A low, will make me sick for hours. Below 45, that is.

Goes to show we are all different. If I get down to 45, sure I feel rotten, but I'm back to normal within 25 minutes. My lows in the 40's are much worse than those I get in the 50's, based on either a Lifescan meter or Compact Plus. If I was using a Flash, that's another story...

[grace girl]

Also, just to stir it up, for me it depends on which insulin brought on the low! Or when it happens. A morning low (brought on by Lantus) is a horrible thing for me....makes me ill all day....and I'm not talking drastic low....just a 67 will kick it off.
Yet yesterday before lunch I was at 64. I felt it, ate, was back within range within 20 minutes and I felt great. If all lows were like this....I might have a different opinion.

There are so many variables in diabetes!

[Keezheekoni]

I don't feel my "highs" except for the incredible sleepiness. As for lows, when I get to 72 I start feeling shaky and get the cold sweaty thing too. I don't like lows...no one little bit!

Rikki

[DiabeticsToday]

Since I rarely achieve lows to ever be too concerned it would have to be the "highs" for me.

[spike]

I don't feel my "highs" except for the incredible sleepiness. As for lows, when I get to 72 I start feeling shaky and get the cold sweaty thing too. I don't like lows...no one little bit!

Rikki

When I was on MDI and different insulins than the past 10 years of pumping, I'd shake like a leaf when I got low. I have NEVER gotten the shakes since I began pumping with either Velosulin, Humalog, or Novolog. Not sure what to attribute my change in symptoms to, other than maybe the speed of the drop, which has slowed a lot from my MDI days. Sometimes I'd drop 100 points in 5 minutes!

[spike]

I don't feel my "highs" except for the incredible sleepiness. As for lows, when I get to 72 I start feeling shaky and get the cold sweaty thing too. I don't like lows...no one little bit!

Rikki

My marginal lows make me sleepy; not my highs. How how do you get to make you sleepy, Rikki?

[Keezheekoni]

My marginal lows make me sleepy; not my highs. How how do you get to make you sleepy, Rikki?
Spike, I'm assuming that you meant how high? Usually, it's around 210 when I start to feel sleepy. I've never been above 360 and at that time, I was near comatose...luckily I was in the hospital already! I can't say what I'd feel above that, I'm too scared to go more than 12 hours without my insulin...

The lows make me paranoid...not like someone's going to get me paranoid, more like "if I don't fix this now, I'm not going to be able to call 911" paranoid! :rofl:

Rikki

[spike]

Spike, I'm assuming that you meant how high? Usually, it's around 210 when I start to feel sleepy. I've never been above 360 and at that time, I was near comatose...luckily I was in the hospital already! I can't say what I'd feel above that, I'm too scared to go more than 12 hours without my insulin...

The lows make me paranoid...not like someone's going to get me paranoid, more like "if I don't fix this now, I'm not going to be able to call 911" paranoid! :rofl:

Rikki

Rikki, yes, I wrote "how how" instead of "how low".

I know exactly how you feel about lows. I can tell you that in all sincerity, because for 18 miserable years I figured I'd probably die in my sleep from a hypo. I used to get so low, so fast that some people don't believe me when I tell them that I used to drop 100 points in 5 minutes. I had visits from EMT's, shots of Glucagon a few times. One time the EMT's responding to my call said that if I didn't be more careful, I could have a heart attack from the hypo because of the release of adrenelin. He said he'd seen it happen. That certainly didn't help my paranoia! I was afraid to go out much and even standing in a line freaked me out. I felt trapped. I still get a bit uneasy in lines, but nothing like before pumping because my lows are more manageable. I could do 360 without going comatose. I sometimes get to 300 even now and then I keep taking insulin until it comes down, and I worry the whole time about crashing. There was a thread last week about how long Humalog lasts and some say only 3.5 hours for them. I said 5. I can verify that by the times when I've shot up a LOT of extra insulin to cover a big hyper bg. (I meant verify that for ME, the insulin lasts 5 hours)

To put it bluntly, I was constantly afraid I was gonna pass out on any given day, from a hypo. I'd freak out every time I was low and would yell for my family to get me something. There was so validity to my asking for help, because sometimes I literally had to lay on the floor while waiting to be fed. Now I just have tablets, fruit or what not to take care of myself, even if I'm in the 40's. It's still no fun, but I no longer feel so threatened. I went through 18 solid years of hypo anxiety! I can't believe to this day that I'm still alive, looking back at all my serious hypos. I count myself lucky!

I hope you can get a better handle on your bg's so that you won't have to spend as much time in anxietyville as I did. You have me SINCERE sympathies, Rikki. I'd be glad to help in whatever way I can, so let me know. You can always PM too...

[Keezheekoni]

I hope you can get a better handle on your bg's so that you won't have to spend as much time in anxietyville as I did. You have me SINCERE sympathies, Rikki. I'd be glad to help in whatever way I can, so let me know. You can always PM too...
Awwww, thanks! It's too bad my class reunion was cancelled, otherwise I'd be in the bay area next week... could've had coffee or something and you could've shown me in person your pump and stuff. :) Looks like we'll be in Fremont sometime in August, after I'm supposed to get my pump. (Gotta go home to visit the parents...they don't want to see us, just the grandkids!)

Rikki

[spike]

Awwww, thanks! It's too bad my class reunion was cancelled, otherwise I'd be in the bay area next week... could've had coffee or something and you could've shown me in person your pump and stuff. :) Looks like we'll be in Fremont sometime in August, after I'm supposed to get my pump. (Gotta go home to visit the parents...they don't want to see us, just the grandkids!)

Rikki


August is just around the corner!

I'm still waiting for my first grandkids to be conceived.

[Belinda]

Highs make you feel bad but overall aren't a massive problem as long as it doesn't last for too long. Lows are more of an immediate problem and can be fatal rather quickly. Hypers kill in months, hypos kill in minutes.


Well said......

[HelenM]

If I get down to 45, sure I feel rotten, but I'm back to normal within 25 minutes.
I'm more like this. Yesterday whilst I was waiting in a restaurant to have order taken started to feel shakier and shakier tested at 12.45 and was 52, asked for some bread (French bread very fast!) and at 1.05 felt much better, tested and was 72. I guess I'm lucky because at the moment hypo's are easy to deal with and don't seem to have any lasting consequences.

[Emm]

I find lows easier to get out of - so long as I'm not SERIOUSLY low, and so long as I have something quick acting. If I take something that isn't super high in sugar then I can feel wiped out for hours afterwards.

I've never had a very serious low - 1.8 is my lowest ever (which I think equates to around 32 for you non mmol/L people). That seemed serious enough to me at the time but at leat I've never ended up in hospital or conked out. (touch wood and all that!)

Highs are horrible, take longer to recover from, leave me STARVING - I hate that! and I just get so tired & sluggish. I'm much more likely to eat and stay high, coz my mood is always 'grrrrrrrrrrrrr'. Also the fuzzy eyes etc hit me if I'm over 13 (235 ish I think) and that means no driving or reading. I can't even keep a conversation going.

I'm also scared of the long term effects, so would rather recover fast from a low than suffer for ages with a high that sets me off in a vicious circle.

I guess this is one of those things that goes by personal preference, experience, and how well prepared we are.

[Yvonne Burns]

I also prefer highs because at least I can think. Besides, highs creep up and lows hit me like a wrecking ball. I try to check my B.S. so often that any high is reduced quickly. :hmmmm: :cool: :smile: :itsme: :wink: I love these icons!!!:wavey:
--Yvonne

[gettingby]

I don't know where I read this (may have been here) but I've heard that lows cause more problems with memory than highs do. Not sure if it's true or not. I've been through the whole spectrum. Lowest ever was 17(unconscious) and the highest was in the 800's (was in DKA). I have to say that the lows scare me more than anything. I've had lows where I use the 15/15 rule and only come up 3-5 points so I eat more glucose and end up with a rebound high. Ah, the joys of our affliction. (NOT !!!!!!!):-

[xMenace]

Basically it's a frying pan or fire choice. Of course I'd take a high over a low. But my optho might have a different opinion. I'd trade those 3000 lasers for a bunch of lows in a heartbeat.

I've taken three ambulance rides so far. The first one was quite serious. I took my pre-breakfast dose (has always been quite large), sat down, leaned back in a soft chair, and I fell back to sleep. I woke up going the front door feet first and I remember seeing my neighbor running down the street in her pink robe. Gawd I wish I hadn't woken up ;) The third was kinda nasty too. I was in bed and started convulsing. I was kicking the bed-post at full throttle when the wife came in. That was last August and I was finally playing hockey pain free by March. Nothing broken tho. I went low at a party last summer, and I remember being in the bathroom with a drink and realizing I was low. At that moment my legs gave out and my chin hit the ledge. Good thing I'm tough or it;d been another trip.

On the positive side, my Endo says he's only ever lost two patients and they were suicides. The body does have a remarkable ability to save itself by releasing sugars and shutting down, except for those extreme doses like my first. Up till that time, about age 35, I'd always woken up during reactions. Doc gave me the incredibly awful news: I was getting old! My body could no longer release adrenalin like it used to. From now on I could nod out without any warning and had to be more careful. Sheesh. A week later my wife called em back again to get me when I stood up in bed naked trying to keep the ceiling from collapsing. She couldn't convince me otherwise.

Dunno what the conversion rates are, but two Saturdays ago I tested at 1.8 (36?)[1.8 X 18 = 32.4]. Of course I then shot up to 19 shorty after. Since highs almost always follow lows anyway, I guess I do like highs better!

Keep the faith!:tee:

[MJM]

Personal opinion only: Because of the speed at which lows can comatose you I would think that they are the the ones that need instant attention. I've had both, mostly lows and ended up in hospital many times down the years. I think however that there is more damage done to internal organs with high blood sugars and particularly with hyperglycaemia, which I think is more difficult to correct and also takes longer to correct. That opiinion is from a lay person and could be complete balderdash.