Sugar

[CarlyesHope]

:hello: Hey Everybody this is Carlye
ok i dont fully understand the consept of sugar
why cant diabetics have sugar:questionm:questionm:questionm
if we count for it and our blood sugar stays in the good range
why should we worry about it:questionm:questionm
does it do something to our pancreas:questionm:questionm
:hmmmm: :confused:

[corwin]

The only problem with sugar is that it's hard to bolus for it. Suger raise your bg levels in 10 minutes and the insulin stays in your system up to 5 hours. If you calculate correctly and keep your bg in normal range it's fine. Soon many will add that it's impossible to keep in normal range so I'll emphasize that it's a big IF and it's very hard to eat pure sugar and keep good numbers. It doesn't do anything to our pancreas.

[camjen1]

Finally someone who thinks the same as me. I always tell my parents that I can eat anything I want because as long as I take my insulin for it and stay within normal range I'm just like any other person. I just stress that non-diabetics have something that automatically gives them insulin while we diabetics just have to go one more step and do it by hand.

[duck]

:hello: Hey Everybody this is Carlye
ok i dont fully understand the consept of sugar
why cant diabetics have sugar:questionm:questionm:questionm
if we count for it and our blood sugar stays in the good range
why should we worry about it:questionm:questionm
does it do something to our pancreas:questionm:questionm
:hmmmm: :confused:

To say a diabetic "can't" have sugar is not necessarily true. We CAN, but its effects may not be welcome.

My only real issue with "sugar", ie, table sugar, sucrose, is that there is ZERO nutritional value in it. If you subscribe to the school of thought that too much insulin in your lifetime is bad for you, and the less insulin you take in on a daily basis is better for you, than adding "sugar" to your diet may literally be worthless at best and deadly at worst. If on a normal day you only need 40 units of insulin to cover meals and your metabolic needs, but you add plain old sugar to your consumption that day and that requires another 10 units of insulin...If you run the numbers over a month, that's 300 units of insulin, or a week's worth of insulin to cover table sugar. Over a year, that's 3,650 units of insulin, or about 3.5 vials of insulin--that's a lot. For a substance that added ZERO nutritional value to your body, only calories.

You are right, you can bolus for sugar, and that's fine. But the empty calories and the increase in insulin needs can become worrisome. Use it responsibly, otherwise it can add pounds to you, make you feel bad if you miscalculate, etc. I don't avoid it like the plague, but I can't think of the last time I added sugar to anything, not with such workable alternatives as Splenda available.

[duck]

Finally someone who thinks the same as me. I always tell my parents that I can eat anything I want because as long as I take my insulin for it and stay within normal range I'm just like any other person. I just stress that non-diabetics have something that automatically gives them insulin while we diabetics just have to go one more step and do it by hand.

Whereas that is true, non-diabetics have as much "trouble" caused by sugar as diabetics, but they don't realize it. Insulin in excess has deliterious effects on their bodies as well as ours, and certainly many people can attest to how extra fat is not healthy hanging off our bodies.

[CarlyesHope]

To say a diabetic "can't" have sugar is not necessarily true. We CAN, but its effects may not be welcome.

My only real issue with "sugar", ie, table sugar, sucrose, is that there is ZERO nutritional value in it. If you subscribe to the school of thought that too much insulin in your lifetime is bad for you, and the less insulin you take in on a daily basis is better for you, than adding "sugar" to your diet may literally be worthless at best and deadly at worst. If on a normal day you only need 40 units of insulin to cover meals and your metabolic needs, but you add plain old sugar to your consumption that day and that requires another 10 units of insulin...If you run the numbers over a month, that's 300 units of insulin, or a week's worth of insulin to cover table sugar. Over a year, that's 3,650 units of insulin, or about 3.5 vials of insulin--that's a lot. For a substance that added ZERO nutritional value to your body, only calories.

You are right, you can bolus for sugar, and that's fine. But the empty calories and the increase in insulin needs can become worrisome. Use it responsibly, otherwise it can add pounds to you, make you feel bad if you miscalculate, etc. I don't avoid it like the plague, but I can't think of the last time I added sugar to anything, not with such workable alternatives as Splenda available.

well ya see my doctor says that i cant have sugar things such as cookies on a daily basis. i didnt understand why just so long as the sugar is less then half and i could count for it
and duck i didnt really follow that could ya break it down in to smaller words
:stupido3:

[duck]

well ya see my doctor says that i cant have sugar things such as cookies on a daily basis. i didnt understand why just so long as the sugar is less then half and i could count for it
and duck i didnt really follow that could ya break it down in to smaller words
:stupido3:

It's bad for you in excess. :)

"In Excess" means different things to different people, ultimately it's your decision. If allowing yourself to occasionally have some cookies keeps you sane, have at it. If you count correctly and your sugars are good two hours afterward, no biggie. BUT, if you pig-out, eat cookies every day and mess your sugars up, you need to be honest with yourself and do the right thing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/educk/diabetesforums/cookiemonster.jpg

[camjen1]

In other words the more sugar you eat the more insulin you will inject and the more weight and fat you gain. :)

[HollyB]

Hi,

I have a related question about sugar. My 14-year-old, being very lean, growing, active and in peak junk food years, eats -- well it's definitely less sugar than his friends but a lot more than I would have previously imagined a diabetic eating! So far with most sweet foods (if they aren't too fatty) he can get his blood sugar down promptly, within the guidelines we've been given -- even something like waffles and syrup (I know this might not last much longer).

I know, though, that there must be a high initial BG spike. My question is how harmful is that spike, if it comes down again promptly? I'm not stressing too much about this because if he follows in his older brothers' footsteps, his desire for sweets is due to drop dramatically in the next year or two. I think by the time weight becomes an issue, a lowish-sugar diet will feel like much less of a hardship.

Carlye -- our team never had any problems with him eating "moderately sweet" things like a couple of plain cookies, muffins etc. on a daily basis.

[Nejeda]

Whenever my friends ask me what I can and cannot have I tell them I can eat whatever they can. And it's true. Diabetics can eat anything "normal" people can, we just have to eat it in moderation. And that's what I do, and of course, I bolus for whatever I eat.

[xMenace]

Get it in your mind that all types of sugar is bad for your body. Take an electron microspic image of sugar and a comparable sized piece of glass and you'll see remarkable and scary similarities, or so I've been told. I'm a computer programmer; what do I know?

Yes we can eat anything, but if we lose control, even for a short term, we have all these little monsters damaging our bodies. And taking more insulin makes our sugars go down, that and lack of substance makes us hungry, we eat more, we take more, we eat more, we ... get fat. Trust me, cheating will catch up to you.

[Lex4153]

This is a shot in the dark but . . . don't those dips from high to low to high again wear out your blood vessels or something? That we need to keep our blood sugars are level as possible to prevent that? I could have sworn I remember learning that somewhere. Someone help me out.

[notme]

Never heard that Lex. Personally, I eat a fairly healthy diet and keep (white) table sugar to a minimum. Mostly I do that because it is lousy for your body. I have an insulin pump so I can pretty much eat everything I want so long as I know how to bolus for it. That being said......if I eat an unhealthy diet and more calories than I burn, I will get fat like any other person...maybe easier.

So.....I don't do anything to an excess except maybe coffee. :tee:

[bandy]

To say a diabetic "can't" have sugar is not necessarily true. We CAN, but its effects may not be welcome.

My only real issue with "sugar", ie, table sugar, sucrose, is that there is ZERO nutritional value in it. If you subscribe to the school of thought that too much insulin in your lifetime is bad for you, and the less insulin you take in on a daily basis is better for you, than adding "sugar" to your diet may literally be worthless at best and deadly at worst. If on a normal day you only need 40 units of insulin to cover meals and your metabolic needs, but you add plain old sugar to your consumption that day and that requires another 10 units of insulin...If you run the numbers over a month, that's 300 units of insulin, or a week's worth of insulin to cover table sugar. Over a year, that's 3,650 units of insulin, or about 3.5 vials of insulin--that's a lot. For a substance that added ZERO nutritional value to your body, only calories.

You are right, you can bolus for sugar, and that's fine. But the empty calories and the increase in insulin needs can become worrisome. Use it responsibly, otherwise it can add pounds to you, make you feel bad if you miscalculate, etc. I don't avoid it like the plague, but I can't think of the last time I added sugar to anything, not with such workable alternatives as Splenda available.

Duck pretty much said it all - Excellent post! :adore:

About blood sugar spikes: Of course it's best to avoid them if possible, but I personally think (and I believe there's science to back it up) that it's a lot better to have a few highs a day, but a lower A1c, than a more even blood sugar, but a higher A1c. That is, minimizing sugar spikes is a good thing, but A1c remains the best indicator of good control.

[DeusXM]

It also depends on the extent of the spike. Contrary to popular belief, people without diabetes get high blood sugar shortly after eating meals. The entire endocrine system is reactive, rather than proactive - ie. your brain only tells your pancreas to release insulin when it detects an increase in blood sugar. I've seen non-diabetics with post-prandials of anything between 6 to 14mmol/l and they are not diabetic or pre-diabetic or have anything wrong with their endocrine system.

Therefore an initial spike is not a problem - it depends on the duration of the spike.

[Funnygrl]

It also depends on the extent of the spike. Contrary to popular belief, people without diabetes get high blood sugar shortly after eating meals. The entire endocrine system is reactive, rather than proactive - ie. your brain only tells your pancreas to release insulin when it detects an increase in blood sugar. I've seen non-diabetics with post-prandials of anything between 6 to 14mmol/l and they are not diabetic or pre-diabetic or have anything wrong with their endocrine system.

Therefore an initial spike is not a problem - it depends on the duration of the spike.
14 is equal to 252. I would be extremely surprised if a person who spikes to 252 at any point in time isn't diabetic.

[CiContention]

14 is equal to 252. I would be extremely surprised if a person who spikes to 252 at any point in time isn't diabetic.

I on the other hand would not.

[JacquiS]

:hello: Hey Everybody this is Carlye
ok i dont fully understand the consept of sugar
why cant diabetics have sugar:questionm:questionm:questionm
if we count for it and our blood sugar stays in the good range
why should we worry about it:questionm:questionm
does it do something to our pancreas:questionm:questionm
:hmmmm: :confused:
And here's another question that's related. My sugar package says that there are only 2 grams in a tsp of sugar. How bad is that if I only put a tsp in my coffee?

[Penny]

And here's another question that's related. My sugar package says that there are only 2 grams in a tsp of sugar. How bad is that if I only put a tsp in my coffee?

I had to kind of laugh at this. My husband asked me to check his BS this morning. I asked him if he had eaten anything yet and he said no. After testing him at 101, I said I was surprised he was even at that, considering he was fasting. He said "Yeah, all I had was 4 cups of coffee." :stupid: He puts at least 2 tsps of sugar and milk in each cup. I drink coffee black, no sugar and it will cause a small spike. I like hot tea with just a scant 1 tsp of sugar, but it also causes a spike. Tried it without sugar, no spike but "Yuk".

[dws]

My books claim there is 4 grams of carbs in a teaspoon of suger..
don

[dws]

I'll worry about how bad sugar and the amount of insulin is for a person, next time around :)
don

[dws]

:hello: Hey Everybody this is Carlye
ok i dont fully understand the consept of sugar
why cant diabetics have sugar:questionm

I have sugar all the time......... thats why they made insulin:)

if we count for it and our blood sugar stays in the good range
why should we worry about it:questionm:questionm

I don't worry at all. ......

does it do something to our pancreas:
:hmmmm: :confused:

My pancreas stopped working 67 yrs ago, why should I worry about it:)

don

[DeusXM]

14 is equal to 252. I would be extremely surprised if a person who spikes to 252 at any point in time isn't diabetic.

See, this is my point. There is this nonsense that so many people believe that people without diabetes never get high blood sugar. I can settle this straight off - go find a non-diabetic friend, get them to drink a litre of Lucozade or orange juice, and then test their BG 10 minutes later. This was actually done a while back on a TV show called 'Tomorrow's World', whereby presenter Philippa Forrester was trying out a new BG meter and got a BG reading of 14.8. Yet she is not diabetic or prediabetic - she explained that she'd just drank an energy drink before presenting the show.

People without diabetes don't magically produce bolus insulin BEFORE they consume anything. The pancreas reacts AFTER and as such there is an initial, brief spike in BG. The point I am trying to get across is that the difference between someone with diabetes and someone without is that the person without has high blood sugar for a much shorter duration - around 40 minutes or so. An incidence of high blood sugar indicates NOTHING whatsoever in terms of diagnosing diabetes - what matters is how long the blood sugar remains high, and whether it ends up in the urine or put to use in the body.

[dws]

It use to be that in a glucose tollerance test. the normal is if the patient glucose RETURNS to the fasting level in 2 hours. that is after drinking 75 grams of Glucola (glucose in water.) if abnormal then continue testing at 3 hr, 4 hr, sometimes even more.
don

[jillsp]

I always *thought* (key word thought) that non diabetics didn't spike above 180 or so. I have heard that nondiabetics bodies start eeking out insulin as soon as the body knows there is something sweet in the mouth. Say you take a bite of a cookie, your tongue tastes the sweet, it sends a message to your brain that there is something sweet going in so it sends a message to your pancreas and it starts pumping out the insulin. I think nondiabetics just get a leg up on the insulin release. But you are right Deus that it is still reactive and everyone spikes.

[DeusXM]

Generally, people without diabetes don't have 'high' spikes - however, this is totally dependent on what they're actually eating and its GI. If the barometer is tasting something sweet, then you can appreciate it doesn't note the difference between something like a cookie, and something like Lucozade or pure sugar - the later two will affect the blood sugar far more quickly than a cookie, and as such, you'd expect these things to cause a greater rise in BG initially as the insulin has more to 'catch up' with.

[duck]

Along what Deus is saying, I've asked (and looked online for) any CGMS-type test of non-diabetics, to see how their blood glucose levels react on a daily basis. Remarkably, I can't find a study and no one here has posted one. Is it possible that none has ever been done?

[duck]

I had to kind of laugh at this. My husband asked me to check his BS this morning. I asked him if he had eaten anything yet and he said no. After testing him at 101, I said I was surprised he was even at that, considering he was fasting. He said "Yeah, all I had was 4 cups of coffee." :stupid: He puts at least 2 tsps of sugar and milk in each cup. I drink coffee black, no sugar and it will cause a small spike. I like hot tea with just a scant 1 tsp of sugar, but it also causes a spike. Tried it without sugar, no spike but "Yuk".

Penny, you'd be suprised how people just don't realize what is going into their bodies...I have a relative who has a battle with weight, and she claims she watches what she eats. BS. But aside from that, when she is being "good", she is always cooking for her family and even cooks pies that she sells at a local store. And if you WATCH her prepare foods, she is constantly nibbling here and there. So I asked her how much she eats when she cooks. "Oh, I don't eat anything, honey...I'm on a diet." Then she got mad at me when I pointed out we watched her sneak a bite here and there...I wasn't calling her a liar, I was just pointing out that she has a habit that goes unnoticed by her.

People also tend to believe condiments carry no caloric value. How is that? Sugar and fat are sugar and fat no matter what the packaging.

And for whatever reason, people seem to not account for drinks in their caloric intake. People who diet often seem to think having two Cokes a day won't affect anything. Yeah, 90 grams of pure sugar won't affect your diet.

Those are mostly my observations...Sorry for being OT.

[DeusXM]

Along what Deus is saying, I've asked (and looked online for) any CGMS-type test of non-diabetics, to see how their blood glucose levels react on a daily basis. Remarkably, I can't find a study and no one here has posted one. Is it possible that none has ever been done?

I've tried looking for one too, largely because I'm aware that everything I'm pointing out here is either heard second-hand from people in endocrinology or from first-hand experience. The closest I found was an abstract of an article but I didn't have access to the journal site it was based on.

However, I have friend who's just finished a BSc in Sports and Exercise Science so he might have a better idea of where to look. I'll ask him and let you know. Bascially though, my understanding of how the feedback loop with glucose works means there simply has to be a spike at some stage.

[bandy]

Bascially though, my understanding of how the feedback loop with glucose works means there simply has to be a spike at some stage.

I guess that depends on what you would call a "spike". The magnitude and duration of this "spike" will no doubt vary a great deal depending on the type of food consumed and the physical fitness of the subject. What I find interesting is that some not so physically conditioned, but aledgedly healthy individuals probably "spike" rather high rather often when consuming high carb foods. But there is really no reason to assume that this is "healthy" or "normal" as these "spikes" would probably have been much less pronounced if the subjects would have maintained a more reasonable level of fitness or if they would have chosen healthier foods.

I guess my point is that it would not surprise me if non-diabetics also suffer, to some extent, from what we normally would call "complications from diabetes". Or, differently put, that high blood sugar causes harm in non-diabetics too.

[Brouts]

Finally someone who thinks the same as me. I always tell my parents that I can eat anything I want because as long as I take my insulin for it and stay within normal range I'm just like any other person. I just stress that non-diabetics have something that automatically gives them insulin while we diabetics just have to go one more step and do it by hand.
I totally agree...we are no different from non-diabetics we just get our insulin from the out side...Well you what I mean.