All Lantus Users Please Read Immediately

[DeusXM]

I don't usually go in for appeals to others, but this is very important.

I've been talking to Joe elsewhere on the board about Lantus side-effects, and from him it's rather obvious that a lot of people have had problems. This encouraged me to talk to my diabetes specialist about Lantus problems. Her first response was that there weren't any significant problems with it. I then told her about some of the side-effects I'd been suffering.

Her face dropped. It was then that she confided in me some rather worrying things. Namely, Lantus is a very new insulin and has not been properly tested yet. She then went on to tell me that a significant number of her patients who she'd put on Lantus had gone on to develop depression, which disappeared almost immediately after they went back on to isophane.

She put me back on isophane. The transformation has been frightening. I realise now that very probably I was depressed, but I was doing the classic male thing of not considering it and believing I was just a little down rather than having a serious problem. Looking back at my other postings, especially the ones about sleeping, although I'm no doctor it appears, on reflection, that I was suffering many of the symptoms of bi-polar disorder.

I went back onto isophane a few days ago, and I'm just astonished by my mood. I've been in a state of perpetual euphoria for several days now, my self-confidence has skyrocketed, and for once I am actually starting to enjoy life again. I realise that this euphoria won't last, my own belief is that now I feel like 'normal' people do, and it's such a change from before that it feels like euphoria. Even so, I'm overjoyed (and slightly frightened) by the transformation.

Many people have attributed the side-effects associated with Lantus as purely blood sugar related, but I'm starting to think that something very different is afoot. I am now utterly convinced that there is something in Lantus that interferes with hormones. With my self-confidence has come along a massive reduction in fatigue, a general increase in strength and stamina, increased libido and aggressiveness. All these changes are similar to men with low testosterone levels who then go onto testosterone replacement therapy.

I've absolutely no way of proving this but I can't help but think that Lantus somehow interfers with testosterone (and possibly other hormones) levels.

Whatever it is, I simply haven't felt better now that I'm back on isophane.

Whilst I don't share Joe's suspicions about synthetic insulin as a whole, I wholeheartedly agree that there is genuinely something wrong with Lantus which can affect certain people. Therefore I appeal to every single person here on Lantus, regardless of whether you think you have suffered side-effects or not, to ask to at least go onto isophane insulin for just a month, to see if you find it makes a difference. I am simply astonished by how much better I feel with isophane after just a few days.

I implore you to challenge your doctors on this issue, and do not allow them to fob you off. This is your health and your life here. Please, please try all the options you can to make sure you have the very best of both.

Thank you.

[zookeeper671]

Deus~ I can't really comment on Lantus since I've never been on it, but I'm so so so glad you're feeling better! That really is wonderful news. I pray the feeling lasts forever for you. :)

Best wishes always,
Angie

[HeatherP]

I'm glad that you're feeling better than before, Deus!

I personally haven't noticed any change of mood since being on Lantus. I'd have to say I feel better because I'm not having lows every day. Been on anti-depressants since I was 15 which was long before the diabetes hit and I just switched to Lantus last year.

There are side effects and risks to every drug we use, including aspirin. I think it's entirely possible that you (and a lot of other people) had a bad reaction to the Lantus. This is certainly something worth considering for all Lantus users, thanks for the info!

HeatherP

[Mick]

I was actually a huge mess the entire 12 or so years I was on "Human NPH" insulin during the 1990s. When I switched to Lantus almost 3 years ago (I got it before it actually went on the market to the general public in May of 2001), my whole world changed. I became a whole human again. The unpredictable hypos I'd experienced with the rDNA NPH vanished, and my mind came back into focus. I realized that I'd lost an entire decade of my life in a fog. Since then, I've lived a joyous, fulfilled and totally "normal" (whatever that means...!) life. I don't discount that some people might have some problems with ANY drug, but for me and many others I know, Lantus has saved their lives.

Michael

[Shalyndria]

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if you're nurses words had somewhat of a "placebo" effect on you Deus...

Just call me the devil's advocate!

Shy :-

[DeusXM]

I don't discount that some people might have some problems with ANY drug, but for me and many others I know, Lantus has saved their lives.

Good for you. Lantus is a very good insulin in terms of BG control, and if it works for you, by all means please stick to it. I'd imagine it's simply a minority who have negative effects...unfortunately, I happened to have been in that minority.

Hmm, almost makes me wonder if you're nurses words had somewhat of a "placebo" effect on you Deus...

It's a very good point, but the sheer difference I feel seems too extreme to be purely psychosomatic.

[Jon]

My son has been on Lantus for awhile now. I have not seen any negative effects. He actually seems to feel better and happier now that his bg is under better control.

[Teresa]

ive been on Lantus for 8 months now and havent noticed an difference in my mood at all!

[WiseWords]

Originally posted by DeusXM
...This encouraged me to talk to my diabetes specialist
about Lantus problems. Her first response was that there
weren't any significant problems with it. I then told her about
some of the side-effects I'd been suffering.

Her face dropped. It was then that she confided in me
some rather worrying things. Namely, Lantus is a
very new insulin and has not been properly tested yet.
She then went on to tell me that a significant number of
her patients who she'd put on Lantus had gone on to
develop depression, which disappeared almost immediately
after they went back on to isophane.

She put me back on isophane. The transformation has been
frightening...
...I went back onto isophane a few days ago, and I'm just
astonished by my mood...
Whatever it is, I simply haven't felt better now that I'm
back on isophane.
Thank you.
That is certainly notable.
It is also notable that your doctor, at first, indicated that
there were no problems with Lantus, but then, admitted
that through her own personal experiences, with some
patients, there were indeed problems from Lantus.

The problems that occur in such situations, I believe, are that
doctors are afraid to speak out against the accepted norm.
Ask her if she is going to submit a report of her findings to
one of the British medical journals or medical associations?
I bet she's not.

This phenomenon is not listed as a side-effect of Lantus
on their website, although many side-effects have been
reported on various message boards. As your doctor noted,
it is new and not fully tested.

I am also somewhat surprised that she put you on NPH,
which is shorter acting than Lantus. I would have thought
that Humulin U would be a better alternative.
If you have any problems with unexpected lows because
of the times that peaks occur with NPH, ask your doctor
if she has experience with Humulin U?

You might also try to see if there is any way for you
to submit a report about this effect with Lantus to an
official medical organization, or even to Aventis .

[mg_2204]

... Perhaps doctors believe that what we don't know can't hurt us? They often give me that impression anyway.

Fantastic Deus that you feel so great now. I'm very happy for you!!! :) :) :)

Marie
:)

[webpundit]

Deus, your post was pretty edifying, as it was terrifying. I've been on Lantus for nearly 9 months now, and luckily I'm among those whose mental condition was not affected by this insuling. However, I will say that my blood sugar levels are much more in control and the sickening hypos and hypers that I kept having while on a 75-25 insulin regimen are a thing of the past.

Hopefully, I will remain unaffected by Lantus. However, I'm glad that I learnt of its possible side effects because I will have a reason in the even that I do end up getting any sort of mental problems. Also, I'm going to try to ask my doctor about this and learn more about the isophane insulin you were talking about. (at the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, what is isophane anyway?)

[zookeeper671]

Isophane insulin is an intermediate-acting insulin with time of onset of 2 hours and duration of 24 hours.

Best wishes,
Angie

[Oradev]

I was on Lantus for about 9 months and got off of it because of those symptoms (depression, fast heart rate, confusion). I was then on NPH for about 4 months or so and could not control my blood sugars. So I went to the Joslin Diabetes Center and told them I needed help. When I told them what happened with Lantus they told me the same thing. But my endo really looked into the problem (thank God). He came to this conclusion. He said that my last H-A1C while on Lantus was around 5.5, which is good, but maybe too low. He also said that since I was experiencing so many lows (around two a day), the reason why I was having those adverse effects were because I was in a state of hypoglycemia for such long periods of time. And since I was unaware of alot of the lows, my body started to react in those ways. I have to tell you now that I am on Lantus again and it has not caused me any problems yet. I am on a different dose now and I'm using a different carb/insulin ratio too. I guess I will just have to wait and see if what my doctor said was true or not.

[rzrbks]

Oradev makes a good point.

I do not think Deus was having all this "In His Head."


And as HeatherP points out:


There are side effects and risks to every drug we use, including aspirin. I think it's entirely possible that you (and a lot of other people) had a bad reaction to the Lantus. This is certainly something worth considering for all Lantus users, thanks for the info!

But I Know that trying to keep my readings above 90/5 and below 150/8.3 instead of the 70/3.8 to 110/6.1 I was keeping them at has made me feel a great deal better. Physically, mentally and emotionally.

Thanks for the Info Deus. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the mental side of things.

[DeusXM]

My control's kinda been shot to **** now I'm back on the isophane, having to relearn all the ratios again, but never mind :(

Still, I'm using quite an interesting approach to iso now. Instead of doing the full wack of 20u in the evening and then running the risk of hypos in the night and highs the next afternoon, I'm now taking just 10u to keep me regular in the night and then another 10u the next morning so the day's pretty standard too.

Still having a few problems with swinging bg but it's nothing I can't get a grip on.

Incidentally things seem to be taking off quite fast. Joe has written to a major consumer TV show who may be covering Lantus now as a result. We're also writing off to Diabetes UK, the main charity here, to raise awareness, and meanwhile, my diabetes nurse is very rapidly turning into a case co-ordinator and is now getting e-mails from a variety of people with similar symptoms to me and Joe. Things are starting to get interesting...

[Oradev]

Deux,

can you let me know what those other people who have had problems with it say? Because I am on Lantus again, for the 3rd time and I still do not feel as great as I did on NPH. My sugars are in more control now, but its possible i'm also having side effects again. Keep me informed.

Adam

[Oradev]

Here is a hyperlink to a site that lists side effects of Lantus. All of the more common side effects listed are the ones people are experiencing.

Link (http://www.drugs.com/index.cfm?pageID=0&htm=500147&type=cons&bn=Lantus&micr=medex)

[DeusXM]

The ones which us lot are particularly worried about are mood swings. As I said before, my diabetes nurse thinks that Lantus has caused depression, or at the very least, 'low mood' in a significant number of her patients. The main problems I had were low mood and excessive perspiration. Others have found that their mood swings from one extreme to the other very dramatically.

[lgvincent]

I suffer from intense depression and don't use Lantus.

[WiseWords]

:eek: From what you have said, it seems that Lantus
has had some negative side-effects related to depression
and mood swings. However, as this is not a reported
symptom of Lantus, from Aventis, the manufacturer, it
will be very important to have credible evidence, rather
than reports which might be suspect.

The first thing that Aventis will say when they hear reports
of excessive perspiration along with mood swings, is that
you were low and didn't realize it. Those are symptoms
that go along with a low BG.
It will raise the question of whether or not you had a
mild low BG, perhaps because of taking too high a dose
of Lantus. I am not saying that is what happened, but it
is the question that will be raised.

The other thing that you will need to be extremely cautious
about, is people with other agendas.
A consumer TV show may be looking for stuff without
checking all the facts, or with "facts" from those with
other agendas. This could make a legitimate report backfire.

Same for the Emails that your nurse is getting.

There is a small minority of people who think that the
synthetic human insulins are not good.
I don't want to debate why they feel they have more in
common with cows & pigs, but anytime there is a chance
to put down the human type insulins, they will be the
first one's in line. Just a word of warning so that any
legitimate reports do not get discarded.

[fishy]

I would like to add two things:

-- I was depressed when I was on Novolog as it was such an utter PITA. My depression went away when I started on Lantus as my life become my own again.

-- *Lots* of people are depressed, even more are borderline depressed or suffer from "low mood". I dare say the numbers are even higher amongst people with a chronic condition like Diabetes. Establishing a link between depression and Lantus from the sort of anecdotal evidence described here is fraught with difficulties and there is an obvious risk of jumping to conclusions and getting people worried about something that is probably (although not definitely) baseless.

[mary54]

My depression started about 2000. I started mixing Novolog with my Humulin N insulin in 2002 with no added side effects. I still have quite a few low's and high's but manage to keep my A1c around 6.7. If my sugar drops below 70 I know it immediately and the same if it goes above 200. I also check my suger 5 times a day.
lgvincent: What type of meds. do you take for your depression

Mary54

[lgvincent]

Prozac doesn't work. I'm taking Lexapro now. It worked for a few weeks but it's loosing its effect. I've considered Effexor but I've heard it can cause weight gain so that's out too.

[DeusXM]

It's a good point how Aventis will claim that my problems have been bg related. Unfortunately, although I can quite pointedly argue that I tested whilst sweating a lot and found my bg to be normal, proving it is a different matter, but hopefully my HbA1c would back up my good control.

As for depression...the best cases I've got so far for that are myself, and another campaign member I'm in contact with, who went onto Lantus, developed severe depression in 2 months, went back onto pork insulin and was fine within a matter of weeks.

I refuse to join in the bandwagon of labelling all synthetic insulin as the work of the devil. I know this is Joe's perception, but it's not mine, since my argument is based on the fact that Humalin I is perfect for me but Lantus gave me problems. My issues are with Lantus and Lantus alone. I can't help but think that Aventis are going to have to admit there is a higher risk of side-effects with Lantus. I remember reading somewhere that the rate of irritation at the injection site with Lantus was something like 10-15%, whereas with most other insulins it's more like 3%. I'd imagine therefore that Lantus itself is more likely to cause side-effects, and I also believe that Aventis has yet to fully document them since they themselves don't actually know. The side-effects listed are just hypo symptoms - in other words, Aventis have had the grace to admit that Lantus can cause low blood sugar, which isn't exactly a surprise, you know.

I'm just hoping that enough people will come forward with anecdotal evidence to undermine confidence in Lantus.

[fishy]

"I'm just hoping that enough people will come forward with anecdotal evidence to undermine confidence in Lantus"

Huh? It's a really good drug that has brought huge benefits to lots of people -- why you would you want people to "undermine" it?

I assume you meant -- "if a sufficient body of anecdotal evidence emerges about side effects of Lantus then I hope a proper scientific investigation will take place to ascertain whether there are clinical issues that need addressing and if so what the best approach should be".

Nothing in this thread suggests to me that there is serious evidence of link between Lantus and depression -- which is not to say there isn't just that its a little premature and arguably irresponsible to start scaremongering in this way.

Just my 2p

Matthew

[statdeac]

I use Lantus for basal and bolus with Humalog. Been using Lantus for more than a year with no side effects.

[joe_34]

Originally posted by WiseWords
:eek: From what you have said, it seems that Lantus
has had some negative side-effects related to depression
and mood swings. However, as this is not a reported
symptom of Lantus, from Aventis, the manufacturer, it
will be very important to have credible evidence, rather
than reports which might be suspect.

The first thing that Aventis will say when they hear reports
of excessive perspiration along with mood swings, is that
you were low and didn't realize it. Those are symptoms
that go along with a low BG.
It will raise the question of whether or not you had a
mild low BG, perhaps because of taking too high a dose
of Lantus. I am not saying that is what happened, but it
is the question that will be raised.

The other thing that you will need to be extremely cautious
about, is people with other agendas.
A consumer TV show may be looking for stuff without
checking all the facts, or with "facts" from those with
other agendas. This could make a legitimate report backfire.

Same for the Emails that your nurse is getting.

There is a small minority of people who think that the
synthetic human insulins are not good.
I don't want to debate why they feel they have more in
common with cows & pigs, but anytime there is a chance
to put down the human type insulins, they will be the
first one's in line. Just a word of warning so that any
legitimate reports do not get discarded. :mad:

hi oradev
i was on lantus for a year and the first 3 months were great my blood readings were better and the hospital told me NO one had any problems that they know of,after three months i started to notice i did not know if i was high or low and had to test it about 7 times a day i started to get very aggresive and attacked two people in my work for no reason,my hands were very painful and i could not make a fist,i started sweating very heavily in my sleep where i had to change my sheets daily my mood often went very low and i would blame everything on everybody else,i would fall asleep sometimes just wherever i could get a seat as i would have no energy it got to the stage i nearly got arrested twice because i nearly killed my girlfriend and i took two severe hypo's when i was asleep and had to be dragged from my bed at not one time did i think it was anything to do with the insulin untill my girlfriend found a sight on the internet and now i have changed to pork i feel like a completely different person and have all my signals back,i have never had any episodes of violence before this,my life is back on track now,because of lantus i could either be in jail now,killed my girlfriend or dead also to wisewords i have never heard so much patronising garbage in my life,i wonder what my agenda is? aventis did not want to comment on any of these symptoms nor could they give any reason why all these symptoms have now stopped,i wonder if you had any of these you would have the same views,i very much doubt it,still it is people like you that keep me fighting on.THANKS

joe

[Teresa]

wow Joe, im really sorry to hear u had problems to that extent... that must have been scary beyond belief! *hugs* All i know is Lantus is ok for me at the moment! Glad u have found some insulin that works better for u! :)

[joe_34]

hi teresa
yes it was and the worst bit was that i never put any of it down to lantus and i know there are a lot more out there,it also gets me angry when people keep telling you it is fine when there are a lot of reports saying otherwise but everyone else knows your body better and no one does anything to help,basicaly you are on your own

joe

[DeusXM]

Huh? It's a really good drug that has brought huge benefits to lots of people -- why you would you want people to "undermine" it?

Simple. It doesn't benifit everyone, and has more adverse effects on users than any other insulin - the allergy rate is something like 10-15% compared to the usual 2-3%. The sad thing is that, although this information is available if you look very carefully for it, I was never informed of these problems. I don't want people to have to go through what me, Joe, Dave, or the 8 patients of my diabetes nurse had to go through.

I've already said that Lantus is a great insulin. It offers brilliant control. However, when 9 people at the same clinic go onto Lantus and then suddenly develop depression, I think I'm fully obliged to think that, you know, maybe there's something in this whole Lantus-depression thing, especially since it happened to me.

If Lantus works for you then that's great, but I think people should be made much more aware that Lantus can cause serious side-effects in almost a fifth of its users.

The fact that the side-effects I and others have had aren't mentioned by Aventis proves nothing. Lantus is still a new insulin. Its risks still haven't been fully documented. If you want to jump on me and everyone else who's had problems then fine, but remember this: if you keep trying to effectively shut up peoplelike me who've had problems, how on earth are pharmeceutical companies ever even going to broach the possibility that their new wonder medicine might be flawed.

Lantus might have done wonders for a lot of people. It also might have destroyed the lives of a lot of others too, who haven't had the information necessary to help them link their problems to being POSSIBLY caused by Lantus. Don't you think it's right that we should demand a full enquiry?

[fishy]

Deus,

It wasn't my intention to "jump on you", I certainly wasn't trying to "shut you up" and of course it's very important that people report adverse reactions to drugs both directly to medical professionals on public fora like this.

My point was more that perhaps a little circumspection and caution is called for when making claims about possible side-effects of such a widely used drug. Statements such as "Lantus can cause serious side-effects in almost a fifth of its users" are irresponsible in my view unless you can provide at least some reasonable evidence to back it up. If I'm a new Lantus user reading this what am I to think?

"the allergy rate is something like 10-15% compared to the usual 2-3%"

Says who? Aventis say the rate of allegric reaction is 3-4%. Are you saying they are wrong? If so on what basis? Can you provide links to evidence supporting this claim?

Again its not that I am saying you are wrong -- its just a that its a serious claim and one that should not be made lightly and without some justification.

"However, when 9 people at the same clinic go onto Lantus and then suddenly develop depression, I think I'm fully obliged to think that, you know, maybe there's something in this whole Lantus-depression thing"

Or it could just mean that 9 people at your clinic got depressed. Like I say depression is *very* common.

"The fact that the side-effects I and others have had aren't mentioned by Aventis proves nothing"

Obviously. But you do have to counterbalance these anecdotal reports against the evidence of various clinical trials which didn't find these side-effects. I think your first step in trying to ascertain if there is anything to these reported side-effects is to look up exactly how many and what sort of clinical trials were done for Lantus.

"Don't you think it's right that we should demand a full enquiry?"

I think it's right you should raise your concerns with your doctors and in public. And if there is evidence of a pattern then by all means take it further.

But talk of demanding a full enquiry on the basis of what has been said here seems at least premature and even slightly hysterical. Your posts sound almost like somethng your read in the Daily Mail ("Seven Ways Lantus Could Cause the World to End Tomorrow" ).

BTW, on your specific case, I note that you have only been back on Isophane since a "few days" prior to your original post. From my own personal experiences I can tell you that a few days, weeks or even months of remission is not a sensible timescale in which to judge changes in clinical depression. It's just not an on/off condition and you have to be very careful about making assumptions based on short term changes.

Finally, I'm very sorry that you had problems and suffered from depression and I wish you well and a speedy recovery.

Best wishes,
Matthew

[Belinda]

Just a thought.....
I have never taken Lantus. From what I am reading and from what I have studied for special education I am wondering if Lantus is part of a medical imbalance it is causing in some of you? Maybe you are taking other meds that don't mix well with it? Sounds like severe mood swings is a chemical imbalance. I don't know but when I read these post that is what came to my mind. Hope that all that are having side effects finds an insulin that works for them.

[Jon]

It is good that we are made aware of the possibility that Lantus causes depression or other side effects. It is not enough to have my son stop taking it, but if he does start to show these symptoms, I will know what to change first.

[rzrbks]

Information is neither good not bad. It is how you use it. IMO, it's good that Deus let everyone know that there were indeed side effects to be concerned about.

Now, each of us have information that will allow us to visit with Dr./endo/CDE and understand what is the best route for each of us indiviually.

I know that I would never drink beer at room temerature, but, it's nice to know that the option is there for peope for whom the idea appeals.

Thanks for the Heads-up Deus.

[bgast1]

I am very new to all of this. I am on 35 units of Lantus at bedtime, and I still don´t have my blood sugar under control. However, I don´t think that Lantus is giving me any side effects. I, supposedly, according to my wife and doctor am depressed. (Of course, I remain in denial as to this, I don´t feel depressed) Therefore, I am on Paxil at the top dosage. I was also on Welbutrin at the top dosage for about a week and experienced horrendous mood swings and was unable to control my emotions, whatsoever. I went to the doctor and requested that I be taken off the Welbutrin immediately. Within 24 hours, I had marked improvement in my moods, and withing 48 hours, I was back to normal. All this time, I was just starting Lantus. As has been mentioned before, sometimes anti-depressents can cause severe discomfort as well. Perhaps it was not the Lantus, but some other medication in conjunction with the Lantus. However, I hate shots. I find that this Lantus stings quite a bit sometimes. But I am new to it, will I ever get used to it?

[HeatherP]

I think there's a few things you can do to reduce the sting: Don't know if you keep it in the fridge, but you could let it "warm up" to room temp a bit before injecting. You could also try numbing the site w/ an ice cube first. The sting may also have to do w/ the amount you're injecting. I take relatively small amounts and so it doesn't sting most of the time. Try experimenting a bit - you may find that you have areas that are more sensitive than others.

It takes a while for everything to fall into place - give yourself some time and take one day at a time.

HeatherP

[lgvincent]

How uncomfortable is the sting it creates?

[bgast1]

The sting isn´t too bad. Just annoying enough to make be think twice before injecting myself. I keep the insulin at room temperature all the time. Also use short needles, but I think they are the Reli-On brand which I think are sub par to the BD brand.

It stings mostly after I pull the needle out. Not as much going in. Actually the finger sticks are worse than first injecting myself.

[HeatherP]

If it stings after injection, then more than likely it's the Lantus itself. You should post a question about reducing Lantus pain specifically - there's lots of people here who could make some helpful suggestions.

When you stick your fingers, are you using the sides? Thinnest lancets? Lowest device setting?

HeatherP

[bgast1]

Yeah I use the sides at the lowest setting, It´s really not that bad. I´m just being wimpy. Besides, we´re all in same boat aren´t we?

I´ll try that idea on another post about Lantus pain. Tonight it stung quite a bit, but also there was a drop left after I pulled the syringe out and that probably contributed to the sting as well as my not getting the full dosage I was supposed to get. I´ll get better in time.

[lgvincent]

I would have to agree with the stinging finger pricks. I've always preferred having blood taken from my arm than having it taken from a finger because it hurts less. However, as much as I check my blood sugar now, my arms would be black so it's not practical. I do use the sides of my fingers and as shallow a setting as I can to get the blood. I don't know how thin the lancets are. It's still uncomfortable. I guess my response belongs in another forum heading though.

[HeatherP]

Most likely, but what the heck! BD makes a 33 gg lancet I think. I'm still using the ulra fine II's. I don't change them very often. For the time being I'm lucky - don't have too much difficulty. Can't get blood from alternate sites, though. It's like there's only blood in my fingertips, and not my arms or legs. Weird.

HeatherP

[joe_34]

bgast1
the sting that you are feeling has nothing to do with the temperature or the amount you are taking,it is to do with the bad design of the syringe,due to the amount of complaints about it i think it has been put under review,it is caused because of the pressure you have to put on the plunger at the top instead of the side,since changing onto pork i also changed my pen where i click a plunger at the side and have had no pain since,so no matter how you take it you will allways have stinging from it,i hope i have helped

joe

[Lorna]

I've now been on lantus for just under 2 years, after having been on a rejeme of 3 injections of humalog and one of humulin I per day. Since starting to use lantus I have been a lot happier, and more confident and my blood glucose control has improved dramatically. (Reduction of about 3% in my HBA1C) I did however, put on about 3 stone in weight in the 2 months immediately after Istarted using the insulin. Has anyone else experienced this?

[DeusXM]

The reason you're feeling a lot better is because your control is a lot better. Unfortunately, one of the more common side-effects of good bg control is weight gain (although this can be avoided).

As I said, Lantus is a brilliant insulin as far as bg control is concerned, but in a small minority of individuals it can have some bad side-effects.

[Lorna]

Any tips as to how I could loose the weight again but keep the good control? (I already exercise for an hour 6 times a week, and have tried cutting all high fat foods out of my diet)

[DeusXM]

High fat foods aren't really the problem. I bet you're eating loads of starchy carbohydrates, like white bread, pasta and potatoes. Reduce your intake of these (though not so much that you're not getting enough energy) and drop your insulin accordingly. Insulin, as well as reducing blood sugar, also promotes the storage of fat. The less insulin you take, the less fat you put on.

Once again, I must stress that you still need to take insulin and some carbohydrate - but probably nowhere near as much as you are taking now.

Of course, if you want, there is a way you can lose weight VERY quickly and eat whatever you like. It's called 'not taking insulin' and basically it's the same principle as the Atkins diet. Wouldn't particularly recommend it though, since it has some rather unfortunate side-effects like death ;)

[Sylv]

Hi Joe,
You will never know what it means to me to have found your thread and also this site. I have been searching the net for days, trying to figure out how my daughter has went from being sensible and very level headed to a nervous wreck. When this all started happening to her we thought of all the possibilities for it and we kept coming back to the same thing, Around the time the depression and anxiety hit her she was put on a new insulin (LANTUS) After reading what everyone has to say i am now starting to believe it could be the insulin that has caused it. I want to say that although she has been put on medication we are going to check this out with her clinic.
Regards to you all,
Sylvia from Scotland.

[sydneya]

Thanks for sharing, Deus. I am on Lantus and have been about 9 months. I'm having no side effects that I am aware of, but it is good to know what's happening. Depression is a hard one, because it is easy to blame on lots of different things.
It's great that you caught it and even though there is always a challenge to change, that the change is slowly pulling together. Good luck with the challenge.

[ghostrider]

I noticed after starting to take lantus that i am completely uncontrolable i can not sleep at night or be around alot of people which I am told are anxiety attacks but im not sure because its not like im nervous about anything? DO you think this is something I should look into with my doctor? Could i be feeling like this from the insulin when i was on Novolin I was fine my bg was under control and my a1c's are fine. Could i be having reactions to my lantus?

[ghostrider]

Hi Joe,
You will never know what it means to me to have found your thread and also this site. I have been searching the net for days, trying to figure out how my daughter has went from being sensible and very level headed to a nervous wreck. When this all started happening to her we thought of all the possibilities for it and we kept coming back to the same thing, Around the time the depression and anxiety hit her she was put on a new insulin (LANTUS) After reading what everyone has to say i am now starting to believe it could be the insulin that has caused it. I want to say that although she has been put on medication we are going to check this out with her clinic.
Regards to you all,
Sylvia from Scotland.

I am experiencing the same problems, how old is your daughter?

[BriOnH]

I am experiencing the same problems, how old is your daughter?
ditto, and for me i am certain it was when I was switched from pork to humanlin insulin at 14. I am thinking of just trying pork (if they even make it anymore) to see if i feel normal again. I could very well just be grasping at straws.

A word of caution for those that take anti-depressants or are considering them - especially SSRI's, they are EXTREMELY hard to come off of, can have terrible teribble side effects, and cause HUGE alterations in the brain and mess with testosterone/estrogen levels a lot(hence the sexual side effects). I am going through paxhell right now, and expect 18 months to recover coming off it. I highly recommend you look at this site about SSRI's and the **** they can cause @ www.paxilprogress.com. Paxil worked for me for about 6 years til eventually the side effects overcame the benefit. AD's are literally miracles for a lot of people, but just wanted to share the other side of them if ya didnt already know.

With all the different types of insulins that are available, and the new ones coming out in the next two years, I honestly believe that some need a modified regimine rather then what the doctors and drug companies tell us which are best for us. I wish there was some test they could take that matched you to the insulins that would make you feel best, rather than trial and error.

[Sylv]

Hi there, I am so sorry to hear that your going through this with your daughter. I have to go out now but wanted to write to you first. My daughter is 22 and i siad in previous mail has always been verry level headed. I dont know if i am allowed to do this but i am putting my e-mail address with this if you wish to get on touch. Sillysilv@hotmail.com
kindest regards
Sylvia.

[DeusXM]

As an update, there is now a new insulin called Levemir which has a similar action profile to Lantus (ie. it's peakless). However, unlike Lantus it is the same pH as the human body - it is this pH discrepancy in Lantus which causes the stinging and may also be responsible for other effects.

If you're having problems which you think are associated with Lantus then you may wish to switch to Levemir. However, Levemir is also not perfect - I found it just didn't seem to do anything to my BG whatsoever, but apparently I'm in the minority again!

[Sylv]

Hi there,
Sylvia here, I am very new to this site and the reason i joined it was my daughter who throughout her life and illnesses has never suffered from depression. My daughter who has cystic fibrosis developed diabetes around the age of 18, this is something that can happen to cystic fibrosis sufferers. I am not totally in the know about diabetes but i know that nov last year her nurse was not happy with her overall sugar levels. I believe she was on two different insulins at the time... Think they were novorapid and act rapid... I may be wrong. They decided that she should go on Lantus, which she takes at night and i am sure she takes one of the other insulins as well. I would say that her state of mind has not been right for around six weeks now. The anxiety she is feeling and the despair (her words) have turned her into a nervous wreck. She obsesses and fixates on the smallest thing and worries about everything that comes to mind. I know this is not my daughter and if she was a depressive it would have come to light years ago. I just find it so strange that this has started happening around the same time she changed her insulin. I would gladly accept any advice anyone has to offer. I am also in the UK (Scotland) if anybody would like to keep in touch concerning this matter.
Thanks for listening,
Sylvia.

[Linn]

I was on Lantus for around a year before I was put on the pump. Looking back, the only oddity I can recall is I suffered from a few *at the most 5* anxiety attacks in the middle of the night that woke me from sleep..
I naturally checked my glucose each time but numbers were fine. No more anxiety attacks though after they put me on the pump.

[Aftiel]

My Doctor just switched me over to Lantus (which I will start on tomorrow.) I will keep my eyes open for any side effects - however after being Type 1 for almost 30 years, I look forward to an insulin that is more consistent.

Humilin insulins have resulted in me having highs and lows every day essentially.

[cfrench180@tamp]

Hi,

I am on Lantus and have been since it came out. I've had a lot of problems with it and done a great deal of research on it. I had severe hypoglycemia from day one on it, and eventually had to go on two injections per day, which is where I am right now. So many of the older insulins have been removed from the marketplace, and I believe Humulin U is going by the wayside now, too. When I first started on Lantus and reported the problems to my MD and to Aventis, they said I was crazy, that NO ONE getting Lantus had the problems I was describing. Eventually it's come out that there are a lot of problems including increased hypoglycemia unawareness at night during the switchover, some problems with retinopathy advancing in type two diabetics (trial results not completed yet, but this was known before it was put to market) and the need for split dose of Lantus in a great number of people. All of the new insulins (analogs) are synthetics and we really just don't know at this point what the future will hold in terms of dangers. I advocate for the availability of alternative insulins, as many people can't get along on these new and fast acting insulins. Thanks for the alert on the depression and the tv group that's looking into Lantus. We are really all guinea pigs, and personally I don't like it. Hard enough to keep up with our regimes, isn't it? If I were in the UK, I would be asking for the old beef/pork lente insulin...it's available there, but extremely hard to import to the US.

I don't know who here is type one or type two. I'm type one, for over 30 years now. I've been working with the International Medical Veritas Associatiion and looking at some of the "chemical poisons" that seem to have such an influence on our blood sugars and on the complications . If anyone is interested in the arsenic in chickens we eat these days, the Alloxen in white bread flour, the dangers of medications used for "mental illness" and so many other things out there like fluoride, mercury, lead etc. is affecting us, please email me for a copy of "Chemical Poisoning in Diabetes".

I've also been really impressed with a couple of natural adjuncts to use. One being Magnesium and the other Spirulina. Research is showing that over 80% of diabetics of both types are deficient in magnesium and this is influential on mood and behaviors, as well as possibly preventive of type 2, reducing insulin resistance, and helpful in "double diabetes" where a person has both types (showing up more and more these days) and may also be influential in preventing complications. Also helpful in keeping blood pressures down, but not to be used if renal insufficiency is present. : : http://www.magnesiumforlife.com/

We're going to be expanding the site of the IMVA (International Medical Veritas Association ) to include an entire section on diabetes very soon.

Claudia French RN, LPHA
http://imva.info/
http://members.tripod.com/diabetics_world/

[Sparkle]

I have not noticed any change in moods or sleeping to be honest. No night hypo's etc.

G

[ashlyn]

Hi all:
I will try to explain my experience with Lantus. I am a 35 year old diabetic female and I've had diabetes for about 25 yrs . I've always had pretty good control of it . November of 2004 I went hypo during the night while taking Novolin N. (probably a combination of too much exercise or not enough to eat we assume). Shortly after, my doc switched me to Lantus. This is when life as I knew it had changed.
Almost immediately I developed a chest and back rash (my doc thinks it is acne). I am still, to this day at times, horrible to be near. I have changed into someone even I can't stand. Mood swings are horrible, I have continuous lows with no warning signs of what a high level is or a low level coming on anymore. My A1c's are good as they have always been good. I wake up daily feeling like I have been drugged up. Lethargic, kind of zombie like with usually really low bg. My sex drive has disappeared. I have told my doc I think it may be the Lantus or side effects but he doesn't believe that. I asked to be switched back to try the Novolin again to see if I get any better. He even put me on birth control pills to see if it will help the sex drive issues. He only adjusts my Lantus. There are so many bad things going on with me now. I am depressed, I cry a lot, moody, no sex drive, lethargic feeling, no energy, I am terribly forgetful. I began to wonder if the low glucose levels I had experienced have caused some type of brain damage. I am looking at the Lantus first to at least rule out if that is the culprit.
I should also add that my best friend takes Lantus and she too experiences a good portion of the same side effects. Her doc has her convinced that it's just stress causing all of her symptoms.
I will agree that Lantus can be a lifesaver for some. But it appears it can be a killer for others. I have researced Lantus for quite some time and found only a small handful of others posting about the side effects of it. I am glad I found this forum because now at least I can call my doc and demand to change my insulin with the knowledge that it's not only me feeling this on Lantus. Thanks all!

[christie]

i always wonder when a new medicine comes out as to the complete safety of it.i am on lantus for a little over a year now,it has been ok not great but better than humalin u.i still have some bad hypos,and i too was very depressed i never thought the lantus could be a factor.the drs always say stress. and my son is a difficult adhd 6 year old. so i was given cymbalta for depression/pain but the side effects made me ill,so i called the dr and was changed to zoloft.i see a change in myself at least now i don't feel so stressed that i want to pull my hair out. i notice that my life attitude did change when starting on lantus.

[Colin_G]

Any chance these effects could also occur as a result of using Levemir?

I was on Lantus for a few years before changing to Levemir about six months ago. I have been a little depressed at times over the last few years - I'm pretty sure it's my circumstances that were mostly the cause of the depression, but I'd like to eliminate the insulin as a possible cause.

[Mark C]

I've been on lantus and it has changed my life for the better with no side effects caused by the hormone. I have a ringing in my ears now, which the doc says the nerves are waking up again and sensitive.

I walk five plus miles per day and I believe that brightens up my mood and it has helped me lose over 55 pounds last year alone and get more fit. BGL is way better and my A1c is now 6.6.

[woody57]

I can sypathise with Deus XM ,THE SYPMTOMS he describes are exactly what i have experienced on and of for some time depressive swings,low libido,,aches and pains,im sure this a sympton of taking the Lantus,these symtoms are not continous,but in my case have lasted for many years.Ihave spoken to my health team but they allways seem to go on to the next subject without really listening to what your telling them,i have been on Human insulins for some 12 years,and lantus for about 3 years ,it seems they cant wait to get you on to the next wonder drug -hence the combined LEVIMIR they also have put me on.I am shortly to be assessed for a pump,as funding is available in my POST CODE AREA?,DO THEY USE LANTUS AND LEVIMIR WITH PUMP TREATMENT?-------I am sure however that LANTUS is not suitable to all .jim

[ashlyn]

Hello Deusxm:

I was just wondering how you are feeling these days? I, too, am still considering getting off of the Lantus wagon. I am not sure how much more I can take of the side effects. I have so many of the side effects you have listed. I wouldn't say I'm depressed but maybe exhibiting mood swings that probably do resemble bi-polar symptoms. I have had all my labs done; hormone, A1C, etc...everything is normal. I have spoken to my doc about using the isophane even just temporarily but he, too, seems to defend Lantus and rates it so highly. Maybe my symptoms are purely blood sugar related, but I won't figure that out until I try getting off of the Lantus. Let me know how you are feeling and if you are still off of the Lantus. Thanks!!!:shakehand

[SueM]

There is a lovely saying it's called
"Treatment refused" if you want off Lantus then tell your Dr treatment is refused and demand a switch back to the insulin you were happy with. It's your life you have to live it not some Dr sitting behind a desk.

[Cyborg]

I did take part of the clinical trials for Lantus, so I know there was "some" testing. Until Feb 14th, when I start pumping, I was still taking Lantus. I was taking it for several years. And, yes, I was suffering from what I thought was diabetic depression. I was actually feeling that the depression was either gone or rapidly dissapating, but I chalked it up to the pump and tighter control. I never thought that it might be due to Lantus. Wow!

[Starlight]

This is really concerning. Im not on lantus, but to think that maybe other insulin brands also have side effects that are yet not known..is scary.

If the company was to claim to you that the reactions were simply from a hypo..you can blatantly point out that the the depressed mood and perspiration are ongoing..everyday..now tell me... If your low, the symptoms last until you treat your self..they dont stick around,..now i dont think you'd be around today if you were experiencing hypos 24 hours a day, as they would probably proclaim. From what you've said the symptoms aren't the come and go type. They are persistant. So hmph to them. :itsme:

[lgvincent]

Wonderful! I've just gotten some Lantus so I guess I had better try it to see if I can use it. Some of the NPH I have is getting close to the expiration date and I wanted to use it before it got too far past that date but now I feel I need to try the Lantus to see if I can use it.

[seacomp]

I see a problem with this thread and a similar thread about possible side effects of metformin. I use Lantus, and don't notice a problem. That is not to say that there is or isn't a problem.
My concern is that there are many people who are open to suggestion in regards to things like side effects. Once someone has brought up the idea that a particular drug has a certain side effect they are certain to experience it. (Doctors in training have a similar problem, they "get" each disease, one-by-one as they work thru studing each one!)
That's one of the reasons that science tries to use a "double blind" in experiements where neither the person taking the drug or the person evaluating the result know what is the drug and what is the placebo.
Having said this, I don't know a clean solution. Clearly, there is value to discussing the side effects of drugs, which may be serious and only show up after long term use, so these threads are important and should continue. Perhaps, all that can be done is to point out the problem: warnings of side effects can be self-fulfilling prophecies.

[shybo]

Hi there all, I'm new here today. I'm enjoying the posts and I noted where you say you never refridgerate your lantus? I taken lantus for a few years
and have always kept it refrigerated. It says on the container to. I've been fighting depression for many years and I'm beginning to wonder if there is any
antidepresants that really work good. I've been taking prozac, and it works sometimes and sometimes not and I've tryed several others and I haven't found one yet that I can say"oh I feel fine all the time" mood swings and all.
Wellbutrin was a bit hard on my tummy. Elivil I always thought made me feel
wierd as did a lot more, just kinda take em and stare at the wall a lot of time.
What I HATE worse about taking all those to start with is it takes so long to try them out for weeks, by the time the time is up to see if your suppose to feel better, you dont honestly know if you do or not cause ya can't remember just how ya felt that far back LOL. I came here to start with to ask about cymbalta? My legs hurt pretty bad sometimes because of nerve damage and I've see ads on tv about how it helps with puriphrial nerve damage?
I'm wondering if anyone can answer this or if anyone has tryed it. Thanks, Nice to see ya'll I'm shybo...

[psilocybin]

I don't usually go in for appeals to others, but this is very important.

I've been talking to Joe elsewhere on the board about Lantus side-effects, and from him it's rather obvious that a lot of people have had problems. This encouraged me to talk to my diabetes specialist about Lantus problems. Her first response was that there weren't any significant problems with it. I then told her about some of the side-effects I'd been suffering.

Her face dropped. It was then that she confided in me some rather worrying things. Namely, Lantus is a very new insulin and has not been properly tested yet. She then went on to tell me that a significant number of her patients who she'd put on Lantus had gone on to develop depression, which disappeared almost immediately after they went back on to isophane.

She put me back on isophane. The transformation has been frightening. I realise now that very probably I was depressed, but I was doing the classic male thing of not considering it and believing I was just a little down rather than having a serious problem. Looking back at my other postings, especially the ones about sleeping, although I'm no doctor it appears, on reflection, that I was suffering many of the symptoms of bi-polar disorder.

I went back onto isophane a few days ago, and I'm just astonished by my mood. I've been in a state of perpetual euphoria for several days now, my self-confidence has skyrocketed, and for once I am actually starting to enjoy life again. I realise that this euphoria won't last, my own belief is that now I feel like 'normal' people do, and it's such a change from before that it feels like euphoria. Even so, I'm overjoyed (and slightly frightened) by the transformation.

Many people have attributed the side-effects associated with Lantus as purely blood sugar related, but I'm starting to think that something very different is afoot. I am now utterly convinced that there is something in Lantus that interferes with hormones. With my self-confidence has come along a massive reduction in fatigue, a general increase in strength and stamina, increased libido and aggressiveness. All these changes are similar to men with low testosterone levels who then go onto testosterone replacement therapy.

I've absolutely no way of proving this but I can't help but think that Lantus somehow interfers with testosterone (and possibly other hormones) levels.

Whatever it is, I simply haven't felt better now that I'm back on isophane.

Whilst I don't share Joe's suspicions about synthetic insulin as a whole, I wholeheartedly agree that there is genuinely something wrong with Lantus which can affect certain people. Therefore I appeal to every single person here on Lantus, regardless of whether you think you have suffered side-effects or not, to ask to at least go onto isophane insulin for just a month, to see if you find it makes a difference. I am simply astonished by how much better I feel with isophane after just a few days.

I implore you to challenge your doctors on this issue, and do not allow them to fob you off. This is your health and your life here. Please, please try all the options you can to make sure you have the very best of both.

Thank you.

wow...i just found this thread..but thats a serious issue

[AuntieDeb]

I've been reading the posts about Lantus and wanted to offer my piece. I was involved in an early study of Lantus. As soon as the study ended, it was disclosed to me that I was becoming increasingly anemic and that I should contact my personal physician for follow-up care. I had never been anemic before the study and after returning to "normal", I haven't been anemic since. Another of my fellow research subjects became so anemic during the study that she had to discontinue her participation altogether.

I use an insulin pump (since April 2000), so I don't use Lantus, however, my younger sister uses Lantus and Humalog. I have been watching her struggle for several years with anemia and it hadn't dawned on me that it is possible that the Lantus could be causing her anemia!

For anyone who has never been anemic before, there is no fatigue like the fatigue of anemia. If you are on Lantus, get your blood count done.

I am now going to suggest to my sister that she should ask her doctor to try her on another insulin for a period of time to see if her anemic condition improves. Heck, they want to do a hysterectomy on her -- nothing is wrong with her uterus! They just don't think she can handle the blood loss.

Anyway...not to cause hysteria, just trust your self-awareness. It isn't normal to feel so tired. If it checks out, you will at least know that you aren't anemic.

Good luck!

[Stuboy]

Hi, Sorry to dig up an old post. But i was looking for a post just like this.

I've been feeling pretty low for a long time now, probably actually for most of my diabetic life (18months now).
The first basal bolus regimen I was put on, and am still on, was novorapid and lantus.
Like you, Deus, i've always put this down to just feeling low. But lately it's been concerning me more and more than it could be depression... i wouldn't know as i've never been knowingly depressed before.

I just really low all the time, hardly ever want to talk to anyone and self confidence almost hitting rock bottom now. Before i was diagnosed i was never like that. So i can only put it down to either having diabetes... which im sure didnt' bother me in that way on mixtard 30, or put it down to lantus.

I have a check up due late Feb, at which point i was going to mention this and possibly ask to change to Levemeir to see if that would make a difference.

You spoke of changing from Lantus to isophane ... what is isophane?

[EasyType2]

Now I'm wondering if Lantus could be the cause of my terrible forgetfulness.... :-)

I found this thread about a year ago, when I first joined DF. As I was using Lantus at that time, I asked my Endo on my next visit about any connection between Lantus and depression. Then I forgot about it until it popped up to the top now.

I have experienced mild depression - primarily in December and January - since my mid-30s. I was concerned that Lantus could make it worse. My GP attributes my depression to the shorter periods of daylight in mid-winter.

My Endo has a large practice, primarily diabetic patients, in a small town. This is my guess only, but I think he must have several hundred D patients.

We talked a good bit about my depression - which was a minor problem at that time - and Lantus. I have been using Lantus for well over 5 years. I have not noted any change in depression that I can measure in that time span.

The Endo said that he had received only a couple of complaints from his Lantus using patients. One he felt was due to life-style of the patient. The other he simply shook his head.

Lantus has provided far better control of BG than Humulin that I used before.

I do not doubt at all that any drug - including Lantus - can cause unusual - or rarely reported - side effects.

Anecdotal material such as we accumulate here can often be misleading. Each of us must evaluate our own medical standing and determine what is best for us.

My advice on Lantus usage is for every person using it to give thought to how they feel, compared to how they felt before using Lantus. Then they should discuss the matter with their medical professional.

[JediSurfer]

Maybe the depression could be caused by not having a

correct ratio. If BG' levels are bouncing around it can cause

chaos on the endocrine system and after all its all hormonal.

Took me a long time to find a correct ratio which would be

suitable for most day to day activities.

I found meself been so much happier since starting Lantus

and after suffering serious high BG's in the morning for nearly

20 years it was like a gift from the Gods.

[TenderVittleS]

I was actually a huge mess the entire 12 or so years I was on "Human NPH" insulin during the 1990s. When I switched to Lantus almost 3 years ago (I got it before it actually went on the market to the general public in May of 2001), my whole world changed. I became a whole human again. The unpredictable hypos I'd experienced with the rDNA NPH vanished, and my mind came back into focus. I realized that I'd lost an entire decade of my life in a fog. Since then, I've lived a joyous, fulfilled and totally "normal" (whatever that means...!) life. I don't discount that some people might have some problems with ANY drug, but for me and many others I know, Lantus has saved their lives.

Michael

I have to agree with him, I feel more stable and lows are simple to correct now unlike NPH. I also believe everyone in their lifetime experiences depression in some form, being diabetic no matter what insulin you are on will cause depression anyways. But good luck to you, I hope you find your ratios fast so you can stabilize your sugars.

[Stuboy]

This is the problem im having you see. I thought that maybe it was related to fluctuated blood levels, but my levels are fairly consistant in the range of 4 to 8, it's ot like they are shooting up to 14 and crashing to a hypo then bouncing. I haven't done that for a long time.
I was on mixtard 30 for a short period of about 6 to 8 weeks after diagnosis... and i dont recall feeling as low then as i do all the time now, i took the diagnosis pretty well, as i knew i had it before official diagnosis, or you could say i had a very good idea.

Im also VERY forgetfull... can't remember without having to think ready hard about it, what i had for dinner two nights ago! The forgetfullness has only come around since i started lantus and as far as i can remember (pah) so did feeling low.

I just think it would be interesting to try a different insulin to see if it does make a difference.

I dont know what isophane is that deus mentioned, i tried a search on google but it find it very confusing to read, NPH's and all sorts come up, that whole lot confuses me!

Would there be any reason to choose lantus over levemir? Or any reason why i shouldn't ask for levemir?
I know there has been a weight change issue between the two, but im not worried at all about weight gain.
Im also not worried about the potential to take two shots per day with the levemir as i do that with lantus anyway.
Anything else?

[xMenace]

Maybe the depression could be caused by not having a

correct ratio. If BG' levels are bouncing around it can cause

chaos on the endocrine system and after all its all hormonal.

Took me a long time to find a correct ratio which would be

suitable for most day to day activities.

I found meself been so much happier since starting Lantus

and after suffering serious high BG's in the morning for nearly

20 years it was like a gift from the Gods.


I was never depressed, but with Lantus I had severe hypos around 2am to 4am and nasty highs in the mornings, but I had these with Ultra-Lente and Lente too. I never tried NPH.

Since pumping, I'm darn near flat all night long. I'm still amazed at numbers like today: 5.6 upon waking!

Lantus might be great for most, but not for people with crazy basal patterns like me.

[Jan B]

This is all very interesting. I'm no longer on Lantus since I recently started pumping. I was blaming my depression, forgetfulness, etc. etc. on my age, long-term D, and the fact I was diagnosed w/major depression at a young age. It would be like a miracle to me if being only on fast-acting insulin actually made some of those "downer" symptoms go away. I'm a very optimistic person, but have had many, many times during several years of using Lantus where I just want to be left alone because I'm just not mentally ready for junk from other people!

[DeusXM]

Hey Stu - long time no see, for both of us I guess!

In answer to your question, isophane insulin is the cloudy stuff - in this case I was refering to Insulatard, although I think Humalin I also counts. It's basically the cloudy stuff that's in Mixtard, which is a mix of Novorapid and Insulatard.

Contrary to what I wrote 2 years ago, I wouldn't recommend going back onto Insulatard. I did this and it was fine for a year and then I hit a 'wall', where I couldn't take enough Insulatard to cover my basal needs throughout the day without having a massive hypo every day because of the peak.

Other options open to you are Levemir, which is a flat profile basal by Novo Nordisk that is largely identical to Lantus, and some of the animal-derived Lente insulins which SueM is probably more of an authority on than me. Both should still be available on the NHS. If you're genuinely thinking it is the Lantus itself causing you issues (and it's not just because it's dark and cold outside, or because you have fluctuating BGs or you've got other stuff affecting you), then you could try the Levemir first. It uses the Novopens so the delivery system is excellent. Otherwise, try the Lente or the Insulatard, and if they don't work either, maybe it's time to enquire about a pump. You can get them on the NHS - I was offered one precisely because of my issues with Lantus.

[Stuboy]

Thanks Deus. I genuinely do think it could be the Lantus, I feel down most of the time, every now and then i have a couple of good days where im quite happy and chatty to everyone, which is how i used to be before the big D. I have an appt. with the diabetes nurse at the local surgery later this month, so im going to monitor my BG's very closely over the next couple of weeks to make sure they're not fluctuating so much to cause big mood swings, not sure how much they can fluctuate without causing mood swings, but i guess that's different for everybody like most things with D!

Im just hoping that she'll take me seriously about the subject!

[Lizzie G]

Deus
Im sorry to hear Lantus hasnt worked well for you, each person's biochemistry is different and drugs which have little or no side effects in most people can really screw with others, for no apparent reason.
one thing i would say, having worked in the pharma industry, is that every drug marketed (in the UK at least, where Lantus is very popular), is subjected to many years of R&D, pre-clinical trial and clinical trials, and whilst the drug companies are keen to make profits (as we all know!), the primary concern is safety with any drug. the drug has been through all these loops and nothing statistically significant has been found to prevent it being marketed. whilst i dont refute that you might have had an ususual reaction to the drug, and even that in years to come more problems with the drug might come to light in the public eye, its probably not the best idea to make assertions about a drug that many of us take being problematic, as not everyone takes everything they read with a pinch of salt, and someone somewhere might just stop taking their lantus and compromise their treatment.

[Stuboy]

But then anyone who does "just stop taking their lantus" should know better than that.
Im exploring other options as to what may be causing my mood swings, forgetfulness and feeling down all the time as well.
Im not convinced the person who i see more regularly will give me great advice about this so to start off with im going to work hard at flatening my bg levels as much as i can (unfortunatly that seems to mean letting D take over my life completely again) and im going to log EVERY reading, food and insulin injection that i take. See if i can work out my actual CHO:I ratio. At the moment i just eyeball my food and guess the insulin... im not far out, but i dont know what the actual ratio is.

If i dont see any results in mood then it can't hurt to at least try a different basal.

Failing all that, I might try for a pump. Probably wont get one, but it wont hurt to try.

[jimhodges]

I can't speak to the Lantus but I have suffered from depression since I was a teenager. Some things just trigger it and I think that being aware of the effects of depression is a big part of the battle. I know that in my own experience it is usually possible to control most of it if I really knuckle down and don't let it get to me.

[cheryl]

I am reading this in amazment, Ok here is why, and yes this is an old post, brought back up, but I wonder sometimes...

Well I started Lantus in January of 2004, everything seemed fine.....i was content and happy. I got pregnant with my last son at the end of that year....and I had the best pregnancy out of all four kids...Like he was the smallest and what not...then though, my recovery after my last one was not good at all....my sugars swang way worse then they ever did after him.......it's like all the hormones have changed seriously....my moods were horrible...too, I attributed this to the swinging sugars and just having a baby....Then I was starting to adjust back to normal, then I had a tubal ligation in July 2006..........after that I never was the same...ever....I attributed it to hormones and lack of care....Well I have switched to the pump....and I have no more mood swings or weird swinging sugars, but what amazes me is since I was on lantus even when i was feeling ok....my sugars went to 300 no matter what I did when it was that time of the month after two months of being on the pump.....I get low now....so I really think Lantus did have a huge impact on my hormones even more so, after I had my last child.....I did not recover well at all, and I hit over 500 for the first time since I guess diagnosis........highest I had ever seen prior was 400 and that was rare....I don't have too many anxiety attacks anymore either rarely any...which I think is good too....I am very glad I am not on lantus anymore and I melted a ton of weight after I started pumping...a ton....i mean a ton.....I was more bloated on lantus then I was on NPH....I have pics to prove it.....I think once i went screwy with the hormones with the last pregnancy nothing was ever the same for me....I feel better sometimes now.....if I had to go back to mdi I would try Levemir cause I never see anyone talk bad about it, except for trying to tweak it seriously and some have a slight peak...

Cheryl

[sarah91]

Having just come away from the hospital I have found something very interesting about Lantus which may answer some of your queries regarding erratic blood sugar levels.

Having had the results from being on a sensor for 5 days the consultant came to the conclusion that Lantus is only lasting me til 3am. I was waking up with very high blood sugars and thought that it was due to night time hypos or the dawn phenomenom (excuse the spelling!) but it appears that my body is using up the Lantus I am injecting at 11pm in about 4 hours instead of the full 24 hours!

The doc did not give me any solution to this problem but am going back to the hospital in 2 weeks to reassess how to overcome this problem.

Hope this may answer a few problems that some of you have been having.

Sarah
xxx

[grace girl]

I read through this thread once before, but since it's come up again I've read it again with interest. I've been on lantus now for almost two years and it's taken a long time for me to see this, but I've been dealing with what I would call minor depression for the better part of this time period. I'm a very positive, upbeat person by nature, and this has been a hard thing for me to deal with. Of course, it's so easy to assume that it's something else...there have been a lot of stressful things in my life during this time...but, considering the fact that, depression aside, lantus has NEVER acted normal for me, I am now beginning to wonder if it is behind this other stuff as well. I find it to be the most problematic part of being on insulin. I get the hugest drops from even the tiniest doses of it....and all of this makes me wonder if chemically it's just not the right choice for me, and perhaps it has something to do with the depression.
I spoke with my doctor last week about trying levimer, and he thinks it's a good idea because of the drops (yes, I finally found a doctor who actually believed me about the drops) and also because he thinks it's causing me to gain weight. It will be a few weeks before I make the switch as he wants me to get over this infection and off of the antibiotics before making changes. But I am really looking forward to seeing just how many differences it will make in my life.

[Stuboy]

Lantus is only lasting you 4 hours??? wow! I take mine twice a day which seems to give me a nice flat profile, before on once a day i was going high in the evenings.

I've been monitoring my numbers and insulin/food closely the last three days, even bought a diary and been writing every glucose check, food intake and insulin injection. Ive been having loads of lows, but i've dropped my lantus from 16u twice a day to 12 and upped my novorapid to 10g:1u. The hypo's are decreasing in number each day (5 on day 1, 3 on day 2 and only 1 today so far) so i think i'm getting the insulin levels corrected... i have a tendancy to swap the needs around over time, dont know why. The highest i've measured in the last three days was 9.6, but i haven't really noticed less mood swings or a change in "general mood" yet. I have just over two weeks to go untill my check up, so if i haven't noticed any change by then with better numbers im going to ask to change the lantus to levemier.

Im suprised that more and more people in this post are feeling the same about lantus... I'd be interested to follow those who do try something different to see if you feel better on something else!

[cheryl]

Once I got over the fear of the pump, yes I had bad anxiety, I am more upbeat and myself again.....stopping lantus, I lost 35 pounds total, it has now been 11 months since on lantus....wow almost pumping for a year.....I do not get depressed anymore....I have my moments but that is usually with PMS LOL.....but I feel more whole if that makes anysense....no more puffy looking face....stuff like that...I feel pretty decent without it. The swinging sugars are not that bad. My monthly flow is very or more so predictable, and I get low when I get my friend instead of high....Go figure....I had a big adjustment period to the pump, Once I got over a few things, remember I did wing this on my own...I got a few responses from people in forums(but I think most people think I am nuts or crazy), so I completely have pumped blindly with no doc's at all, no health care providers, just books and forums, actually no books till November, and I was keeping a 6.5 a1c, reading the books helped with some things, but I seemed to know already most of what it said....So with that being said.....Yea, I can tell a huge difference in me, all around....

Cheryl

[Eddy]

Having had the results from being on a sensor for 5 days the consultant came to the conclusion that Lantus is only lasting me til 3am.

[...]

The doc did not give me any solution to this problem but am going back to the hospital in 2 weeks to reassess how to overcome this problem.


Many people split their Lantus into two doses.

In me, Lantus "fades" a bit before 24 hr, but still has activity. I handle this by injecting Lantus at 17:30, and an extra 2U of NPH at lunchtime.

[sarah91]

Splitting my Lantus would probably do the job but I don't fancy waking up at 3am every morning to inject it!
Also if its only effective for 4 hours wouldn't I have to inject it 6 times a day???

[JJM335]

Also if its only effective for 4 hours wouldn't I have to inject it 6 times a day???

Sarah:

Lantus is touted as a "24 h insulin". If you look at the idealized activity curves put out by Aventis (and based on a single injection) you will see that it takes about 8 hours to reach maximum activity and then supposedly continues release at a flat level to 24 h. Their activity curves don't continue beyond 24 h, but it is reasonable to assume that release from the injection continues for many hours longer albeit at a reducing level.

If you take a single daily shot of Lantus, these curves start to stack on top of each other, so at say 2 or 3 hours after the shot, you are getting some insulin from the most recent AND the earlier shot. This is obviously complicated. Many T1s seem to find that Lantus "only lasts 22 or 23 h". This doesn't mean that release stops completely after that time, only that the coverage is inadequate around the time of injection when one shot is wearing off and the other hasn't got up to full speed yet.

Everyone seems to react a bit different, but is it possible in your case that the problem is NOT that the Lantus has stopped after only 4 h but that you are experiencing a "hole" at that time? You could imagine several explanations for this -perhaps in your body the Lantus takes longer to "get going" so at 3 am your old shot is wearing off and your latest one hasn't fully kicked in yet. You also don't say how much Lantus you are taking. Smaller doses seem to last less long.

The most common way to deal with "holes" seems to be to change the timing of your injection and/or to split the dose. If you take 2 shots at about 12 h apart, you will end up with two "holes" but they will be smaller, and you may still have enough basal insulin to stop your BG's climbing.

Why don't you try splitting and see if it works? This will take a bit of time as you are probably best to start by taking a couple of units in the morning and then taking 2 U off your evening dose. You will have to keep increasing the morning and reducing the evening until you end up with an even split.

An alternative is to ask your doctor to try Levemir. This Novo's basal insulin. It's a 12 h insulin for T1's so you will have to split your dose. Some people find it works better than Lantus.

Joel

[Stuboy]

Im shocked that it would only last 4 hours... i think you have to consider Joel's comment about the gap...

Also... consider your Lantus injection site, some parts of the body absorb the insulin slower than others, I inject into my stomach, if you inject into your bum then it will take longer to start acting that it would if you injected into your stomach.

[sarah91]

Thanks for your comments Joel and Stuboy. I'm going to the hospital next week and run it past the docs. I'm currently taking 18 units of Lantus at about 10.30pm - 11 pm.
From the results I got when wearing the sensor my sugar levels started to rise at about 3am and kept on rising until I injected my first shot of Novorapid at 8am. Could the 'hole' be 5 hours long?

I changed my injection sites just before Xmas so there should not be a problem there as I'm using the sides of my stomach and the more central part of my thighs.

Thanks for the advice guys. How do you know so much?

Sarah

[Stuboy]

We're all learning here, alot of people on here have been diabetic for most of their lives, they have the experience and have usually been there done that! lol.

[JJM335]

From the results I got when wearing the sensor my sugar levels started to rise at about 3am and kept on rising until I injected my first shot of Novorapid at 8am. Could the 'hole' be 5 hours long?


Sarah:

Like you say, it seems v. unlikely that the hole would last 5 h. However, a rising BG from 3 am onward doesn't necessarily mean the Lantus is running out after 3 am, only that you don't have enought to cover your basal needs. This could be because your basal requirements rise after 3 am and an amount of Lantus that is fine earlier now is no longer adequate.

Perhaps you have an early onset of Dawn Phenomenon (DP)? Many of us experience rises in BG around dawn or immediately upon waking (hormones are released that stimulate glucose release by the liver to prepare you for the activity of the day). In your case could this be kicking in at about 3 am?.

If you are unsure about this, there are a couple of good books that you can order from Amazon. "Think Like a Pancreas" by Gary Scheiner and "Using Insulin" by John Walsh. They aren't expensive (< £10) and will really give you new insight!!

Joel

[sarah91]

Thanks I'll look into these books. Dawn phenomenom is something that has been mentioned before by the diabetes team I see.
Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again for the advice

Sarah

[Scratch]

Having just come away from the hospital I have found something very interesting about Lantus which may answer some of your queries regarding erratic blood sugar levels.

Having had the results from being on a sensor for 5 days the consultant came to the conclusion that Lantus is only lasting me til 3am. I was waking up with very high blood sugars and thought that it was due to night time hypos or the dawn phenomenom (excuse the spelling!) but it appears that my body is using up the Lantus I am injecting at 11pm in about 4 hours instead of the full 24 hours!

The doc did not give me any solution to this problem but am going back to the hospital in 2 weeks to reassess how to overcome this problem.

Hope this may answer a few problems that some of you have been having.

Sarah
xxx
This is a bit odd. Here's why it sounds odd to me.

Just for easy rounding purposes, let's say my Lantus shot is 15u at 9 PM, which based upon a flat uptake profile I should be seeing around .625 u/hr of Lantus being used in a 24 hour time period.

Now let's say that Lantus was not stretched out over 24 hours, but only 4 hours instead. If that Lantus is being used in my body and just for ease of number crunching, it still goes in with a flat uptake profile, that'd mean I'm seeing Lantus being used at a rate of 3.75 u/hr. That would be 3.1 u/hr more than my current basal needs and using my I/C ratio, it means I'd have to eat approximately 30 g of carb/hr to keep my blood sugar stable or it'll begin plummeting at a rate of 105 mg/dl or 6 mmol per hour.

I'd be looking at one nasty nasty hypo if that were the case.

Here are a list of possible scenarios then --

Your doctor is correct somehow with his hypothesis. I'd suggest his hypothesis could be falsified with a simple ketone test. When you wake up in the morning, use a urine testing strip for ketones. If your Lantus stopped working overnight, your body would begin burning fat for energy. Ketones present in your urine would be evidence in support of his hypothesis, although not absolute confirmation. Absence of ketones would falsify his hypothesis almost beyond doubt as it would show that you have Lantus in your system being used by the cells for energy.

The hypothesis that seems more likely plausible is that you've got DP and it's pretty strong.

[sarah91]

Thanks. I'll have to get some ketone test strips but I'll definitely give it a go.

I have been losing weight quite quickly, if the lantus does stop working this could be a reason why!

Thanks again for the advice

Sarah

[xanlexian]

For whatever it is worth, I inject Lantus twice in a 24hour period.


210 units at 2:00am -- 200 units at 2:00pm.


I've got a **LOT** of vials in the fridge. THANKFULLY, I get it all from the manufacturer. Again, THANKFUL that one of my doctors managed to set THAT arrangement up.

Lantus works for me, but I have to inject nearly a vat of the stuff.

Then there's the regular insulin that I have to inject every 90 minutes.

And no... I really don't sleep.

[sarah91]

Wow thats a lot of injecting!

[ant hill]

The ones which us lot are particularly worried about are mood swings.


I generally hyperanger if I was low and disorientation is another affect that I put that down

to general diabetic life.
As I said before, my diabetes nurse thinks that Lantus has caused depression, or at

the very least, 'low mood' in a significant number of her patients.
OK, We all understand that we experience lows from a miscalculation of a bolus, Can this be

a more constant low? Not low enough to be "Out of it" But a sub low. Please, Tell me if you

do not follow me. :)

wow Joe, im really sorry to hear u had problems to that extent... that

must have been scary beyond belief! *hugs* All i know is Lantus is ok for me at the moment!

Glad u have found some insulin that works better for u! :)

Yeah I can second that. That must be awful. :(


For whatever it is worth, I inject Lantus twice in a 24hour period.


210 units at 2:00am -- 200 units at 2:00pm.

GAHD!!! Gee and I thought I take large doses. :eek:

[Moreno]

I haven't really notice anything, i will ask my doctor thou.