Inhalable Glucose

[BriOnH]

Would you use Inhalable Glucose if it were available?

Debating wether or not to make this. Working on the patent right now(this stuff is confusing). The idea would be a super fast raise in blood sugar from an inhalable mist of dextrose.

[spike]

Would you use Inhalable Glucose if it were available?

Debating wether or not to make this. Working on the patent right now(this stuff is confusing). The idea would be a super fast raise in blood sugar from an inhalable mist of dextrose.

IF it didn't taste yucky. IF it isn't tres expensive. IF it won't cause asthma. IF it's easily pocketable. IF it can stand high heat in parked cars. IF it's WAAAY faster than Skittles.

Can you guarantee any 5 of those 6 items? :)

[BriOnH]

IF it didn't taste yucky. IF it isn't tres expensive. IF it won't cause asthma. IF it's easily pocketable. IF it can stand high heat in parked cars. IF it's WAAAY faster than Skittles.

Can you guarantee any 5 of those 6 items? :)

I'd guarentee all those before it hit the market. I think I might have to get FDA approval too. I'll be trying it on myself, or maybe a mouse, then go through FDA responsibilites, before hitting the market.

[jeggeman31]

I would want more info. If we could prove that there was no long lasting problems then yes I would use it. It would be better than raiding the Fridge during a very Low, low.

[BriOnH]

I'd guarentee all those before it hit the market. I think I might have to get FDA approval too. I'll be trying it on myself, or maybe a mouse, then go through FDA responsibilites, before hitting the market.
I need to edit this, sorry.

I stand by my words so I can't guarentee this yet. I will be aiming to accomplish all those as I believe they are musts. All I can officially guarentee before deciding to build it is it will be safe and effective.

[Funnygrl]

I'm willing to bet this will be a no no for asthmatics too?

[spike]

I need to edit this, sorry.

I stand by my words so I can't guarentee this yet. I will be aiming to accomplish all those as I believe they are musts. All I can officially guarentee before deciding to build it is it will be safe and effective.


That's fair. And all I can guarantee is that when I buy something expensive and/or that might affect my health, I do my homework first, weigh the pros/cons, ask questions of the mfgr and users (if it's been on the market for a bit), read reviews...you get the point. <g> I might be a tough sell, but if I like something, I'll sing it's praises til the cows come home.

[jeggeman31]

I'll sing it's praises til the cows come home.

So once the cows show up at home, you will stop singing :)

[spike]

So once the cows show up at home, you will stop singing :)

Yup! I don't want to scare them away.

[BriOnH]

lol

Well I just submitted my first patent. $300 bucks for me to file it myself! I can only imagine what an attorney would charge. Good lord I am investing a lot of dough and time into diabetes products.

[jeggeman31]

lol

Well I just submitted my first patent. $300 bucks for me to file it myself! I can only imagine what an attorney would charge. Good lord I am investing a lot of dough and time into diabetes products.

Well I wish you all the luck in the world. I think it will be a great tool if it ever hits the market

[BriOnH]

I'm willing to bet this will be a no no for asthmatics too?
I would assume so. The idea is pretty simple - a mist of a dextrose solution. The lungs already exhale glucose in respiration so I don't think it should hurt anything. Of course I will give this the proper dudiligence. If this were in any way to hurt anyone I don't think I could live with myself.

[jeggeman31]

Yup! I don't want to scare them away.


What did I do with that Road Map to Spikes house :ridinghor

[JasonJayhawk]

Brion,

Congrats on going the route of doing the patent yourself. Is it really "only" $300 to do it yourself? I was discouraged when someone told me that it costs about $2K to do it yourself -- and $10K minimum, with a patent lawyer.

As far as your discovery or thought process, I can just imagine it now... you're trying to consume glucose rapidly from a low, and you end up sucking some of the candy up your nose!

edit:

The cost of making the FDA happy will likely make the end product quite expensive (compared to Smarties). And people don't like having sticky noses after inhalation, but maybe if it was one of those injectors like what people use for migraines, it could be a replacement from glucagon shots. But then again, if their nose is clogged... and they're unconscious and getting something shoved up their nose.

Hmmm, a friendly mist sounds more likely! *gulp*

[BriOnH]

Well I hope there isn't much more to it. I turned in the design definition to them via an ul'ed pdf and the system said it will be reviewed then I get my patent number. They could be hooking me in for more. As long as I have some proof of a patent I can have my uncle, who I won't brag about but has done extremely well for himself as a business lawyer, help fight the rest if someone were to steal the idea.

I also trade marked "Diabuddies" there. As long as I own the TM anyone, theoretically, can use it.

I am not sure yet if the FDA needs to get involved at all. It's just "sugar water". If anything it will be the delivery method.

[JungleJim]

Brion, much luck but if I have a choice of an inhaler or some candy...........you get the idea.

[BriOnH]

Brion, much luck but if I have a choice of an inhaler or some candy...........you get the idea.

Yeah, totally. That's why I am posting the poll too. For me being low causes a lot of anxiety. The quicker I can raise my BGL to a nice level, the better. This is especially true in sports competitions.

[JasonJayhawk]

How (and where) do you trademark something, and what does it cost?

[spike]

What did I do with that Road Map to Spikes house :ridinghor

Hey, these are modern times! Throw out the maps and use your VZ Navigator on your cell phone.

[spike]

Yeah, totally. That's why I am posting the poll too. For me being low causes a lot of anxiety. The quicker I can raise my BGL to a nice level, the better. This is especially true in sports competitions.

Agreed on the candy vs "nothingness" idea. I don't like drinking my carbs either. If I take in carbs, it has to be in solid form, or I feel cheated.

[jeggeman31]

Throw out the maps and use your VZ Navigator on your cell phone.

LoL I am not due for an upgrade until November 28th. Thus I must use my out dated non picture phone until then ! Thus the map book ! LoL

[notme]

I posted a "no" for inhalable insulin. The reason I have decided against it is lung cancer. My father has just survived Lung cancer and I would never want to go through what he did. I think I will not inhale, like Clinton. :tongue:

[spike]

LoL I am not due for an upgrade until November 28th. Thus I must use my out dated non picture phone until then ! Thus the map book ! LoL

I feel really guilty because I took advantage of my 2 year upgrade recently to get the LG8300, while my wife must wait until March. That phone that cost me $30 would cost her $240+ if she buys it before March. I try to soften the blow of having the cooler stuff by reminding her that by March there will be a COOLER phone available. Then it'll be my turn to be jealous--for another 15 months.

[jeggeman31]

Brion, much luck but if I have a choice of an inhaler or some candy...........you get the idea.

If I had a safe inhaler I would choose that over candy. I am not much of a candy eater, and when I am 40 or below I eat everything in the fridge to get back to normal BS

So for me I think the inhaler would help me better than candy or food.

[spike]

If I had a safe inhaler I would choose that over candy. I am not much of a candy eater, and when I am 40 or below I eat everything in the fridge to get back to normal BS

So for me I think the inhaler would help me better than candy or food.


Some of my hypo killers:

skittles
banana (1/2 or less)
choco milk or tiny choco milkshake (shame on ME!)
Glucotabs (last resort now)
Oreos
PB crackers if mild low
peach fruit cup
blueberry yogurt
jelly on 1 slice of bread

Need I say that all the above sounds better than "nothingness", except maybe the Glucotabs.

[seacomp]

Excuse me, don't you have to have something that actually works, at least in prototype, before a patent is relevant?
Yes, I know there is much BS going on about patents but why add to it?

[BriOnH]

On the web you can trademark and patent things at the United States Patent and Trademark Office. It was $325 to TM Diabuddies. 300 to patent this.
http://www.uspto.gov/

seacomp - They are very specific in their rules and I did not see anywhere that an actual prototype needs to be in hand. All I needed was a PDF with the definition and schematics. What do you mean bs going on about patents? I just want to help protect my ideas. If others use I don't think I would care, but I don't want people telling me that I can't.

Nancy - this is Inhalable Glucose, I think you meant that but wanted to make sure. Glucose is not a carcinigen.

[Erin]

I had a stubborn low the other day, when I had just finished eating a huge meal. I was practically making myself ill trying to eat my carbs. I would have loved to have an inhaler around in that case. My bf was actually inquiring whether there was a way to get glucose into my system without eating it... It would be cool if there was! I'd probably also keep it around at work, and maybe for late night lows.

What I'm saying is for an ordinary run of the mill low on a saturday afternoon, pass the juice and cookies, but for bad lows, or lows when I've got other things to do, an inhaler would be great!

[Cyborg]

I voted no. I like the taste of my orange glucose tabs. In fact, they are almost like candy to me since I rarely eat candy anymore.

[JediSkipdogg]

I had to vote no because I just don't see an advantage of it over something like OJ or regular candy. Yes, an inhaled substance does work faster than an eaten substance, but the idea behind it seems to have more cons than pros to me.

[jen_slc]

Brian, can you clarify here - are you talking about a nasal spray like those things you shove up a nostril and squirt? Or are you talking about an inhaler like with asthma? I would love a super fast non-edible type of hypo treatment, but I cannot do the nostril-squirt thing, it freaks me out, I hate it, lol! I think I could do an inhaler design, but that sounds expensive and a lot of effort to get a sugar mist into your respiratory system.

I'm wondering whether the FDA would regulate this kind of product or not. I'm assuming that you're going to have to put other ingredients into this sugar mist, such as other chemicals (preservatives, stabilizers), or could you really just do plain old sugar and water? If sugar and water isn't enough for regulation, I think adding chemicals might require it, but I'm not sure. I think the FDA regulates a dextrose solution for injection, so is that different because it's via injection rather than inhalation or because it may have other chemical and/or elemental components?

I'm also wondering how well the mist would get into your lungs, assuming this is your target absorption site? If you have the nostril squirt design, it might end up trickling into your esophagus and end up in your stomach if the mist isn't super-duper fine. But then, maybe the nostrils could be a target absorption site if you have a larger droplet type spray, but would that work?

The lungs provide a huge surface area for absorbing substances, but that's not what they were designed for... they were designed for gas exchange, so how do you get sugar water into a sugar water vapour? I get this same uneasy feeling when I think about inhalable insulin. What kind of damage might inhalable insulin do the long run? What kind of damage might a sugar mist do in the long run? Glucose is not a carcinogen, true, it's the safety of the delivery method that I'm questioning, maybe that's what Nancy was getting at. It's kinda weird to think about a sugar mist in your lungs... I feel like I might choke on it! :laugh: But of course, this would have to be an unbelievably fine mist so as to prevent choking, yes? :smile:

This is a very interesting idea, though. I can't really explain it, I just feel like there are a bunch of issues to overcome with it. It seems too simple, you know? And if it was this simple, how come nobody has done it yet?

[jen_slc]

ooh, here's another couple of thoughts: assuming the delivery of inhalable glucose would work in a similar fashion to the delivery of inhalable insulin in the lungs, how fast do you think it could work? Would/could it be that more effective than oral gel in the gums and digestive system? Inhalable insulin starts working in about 5-10 minutes, just like some of the rapid-acting injectables... so is the 5-10 minute delay too slow for your purposes? Are you thinking of something more instantaneous?

With inhalable insulin you end up inhaling a much larger dose than you would inject in order to get the same activity. Would it be the same way with a glucose mist? Edible glucose for hypo treatment is obviously less effective than injectable glucose, so is inhalable glucose an improvement on the amount you'd take into your body (less inhaled than eaten, or vice versa)?

And how do you know how much you're getting? I know they must have figured this out for Exubera, but I get the feeling it might be hard to control and it could be very easy to overshoot and rebound... :dontknow:

[spike]

ooh, here's another couple of thoughts: assuming the delivery of inhalable glucose would work in a similar fashion to the delivery of inhalable insulin in the lungs, how fast do you think it could work? Would/could it be that more effective than oral gel in the gums and digestive system? Inhalable insulin starts working in about 5-10 minutes, just like some of the rapid-acting injectables... so is the 5-10 minute delay too slow for your purposes? Are you thinking of something more instantaneous?

With inhalable insulin you end up inhaling a much larger dose than you would inject in order to get the same activity. Would it be the same way with a glucose mist? Edible glucose for hypo treatment is obviously less effective than injectable glucose, so is inhalable glucose an improvement on the amount you'd take into your body (less inhaled than eaten, or vice versa)?

And how do you know how much you're getting? I know they must have figured this out for Exubera, but I get the feeling it might be hard to control and it could be very easy to overshoot and rebound... :dontknow:

Every time I use an inhaler, I can tell I'm getting a different amount of medication from both the sound of the spray and the amount of taste. I doubt an inhalant is gonna deliver a uniform amount of med every time. It's in the nature of the beast (tiny orifice that gets plugged up, and reduced pressure as the propellant gets used up)

[BriOnH]

Brian, can you clarify here - are you talking about a nasal spray like those things you shove up a nostril and squirt? Or are you talking about an inhaler like with asthma? I would love a super fast non-edible type of hypo treatment, but I cannot do the nostril-squirt thing, it freaks me out, I hate it, lol! I think I could do an inhaler design, but that sounds expensive and a lot of effort to get a sugar mist into your respiratory system.

I'm wondering whether the FDA would regulate this kind of product or not. I'm assuming that you're going to have to put other ingredients into this sugar mist, such as other chemicals (preservatives, stabilizers), or could you really just do plain old sugar and water? If sugar and water isn't enough for regulation, I think adding chemicals might require it, but I'm not sure. I think the FDA regulates a dextrose solution for injection, so is that different because it's via injection rather than inhalation or because it may have other chemical and/or elemental components?

I'm also wondering how well the mist would get into your lungs, assuming this is your target absorption site? If you have the nostril squirt design, it might end up trickling into your esophagus and end up in your stomach if the mist isn't super-duper fine. But then, maybe the nostrils could be a target absorption site if you have a larger droplet type spray, but would that work?

The lungs provide a huge surface area for absorbing substances, but that's not what they were designed for... they were designed for gas exchange, so how do you get sugar water into a sugar water vapour? I get this same uneasy feeling when I think about inhalable insulin. What kind of damage might inhalable insulin do the long run? What kind of damage might a sugar mist do in the long run? Glucose is not a carcinogen, true, it's the safety of the delivery method that I'm questioning, maybe that's what Nancy was getting at. It's kinda weird to think about a sugar mist in your lungs... I feel like I might choke on it! :laugh: But of course, this would have to be an unbelievably fine mist so as to prevent choking, yes? :smile:

This is a very interesting idea, though. I can't really explain it, I just feel like there are a bunch of issues to overcome with it. It seems too simple, you know? And if it was this simple, how come nobody has done it yet?

Thanks for the response Jen. These are awesome questions.

It would be like an asthma inhaler. I don't think it would be too expensive. The initial inhaler would be one cost then the glucomist cartridges that are swapped out is another. I imagine a 3 pack or something. All in all, and in bulk, it should be a relative cheap product to make.

I don't know if this would be regulated by the FDA and need to find out. If they regulate the dextrose bags they most likely would regulate this. The only extra ingredient I was plannig on adding was something for taste. Like maybe some orange juce. Since the canisters will be prepped in a sterile environment and air tight (air can't go in), the juice pasturized, it should not be able to house or grow any pathogenic bacterium.

This is the biggest question: Will it work? I don't know yet, I am still in the proof of concept phase. The key is the timing. If it doesn't deliver sugar to the blood and brain at >least< twice as fast as consumption there really is no point. I will be working on different ways to "mist" it, but all the ways I am thinking of right now are under pressure --> mist. I wish Boyle's law had a variable for "misting". Hey maybe that can be Brian's law!! lol jk, it's gotta be out there somewhere. The mist would be super fine. Like the mists that you see at some grocery stores that water vegetebles that you can inhale. Right now I am worried about the oxidative properties that the glucose could bare on the lungs. But my fear of this is always balanced when thinking about the glucose produced in respiration. If the lungs can already handle sugar out, they should be able to handle sugar in.

It does seem too simple. That's why I patent it lol.

[BriOnH]

Every time I use an inhaler, I can tell I'm getting a different amount of medication from both the sound of the spray and the amount of taste. I doubt an inhalant is gonna deliver a uniform amount of med every time. It's in the nature of the beast (tiny orifice that gets plugged up, and reduced pressure as the propellant gets used up)

Totally. I apologize I don't have any data yet, but I didn't want to put forth work if it was just going to be shot down. Right now the poll is leaning more towards a no response. For me it's an anxiety thing. I want glucose in the blood, fast.

With the mist it will probably be hard to get the exact amount, exaclty for the reasons you mention Spike, but I am hoping that I will be able to tell almost immidiatly if the 5-10g mist that just went in is enough. If it isn't just repeat.

[Cyborg]

I do think that if you can perfect it, it would be a better alternative than glucagon...

[spike]

Totally. I apologize I don't have any data yet, but I didn't want to put forth work if it was just going to be shot down. Right now the poll is leaning more towards a no response. For me it's an anxiety thing. I want glucose in the blood, fast.

With the mist it will probably be hard to get the exact amount, exaclty for the reasons you mention Spike, but I am hoping that I will be able to tell almost immidiatly if the 5-10g mist that just went in is enough. If it isn't just repeat.


I'd like to discuss with you right now your hypos, rather than the inhaler. When I was on MDI, I literally would drop as much as 100 mg/dl in just 5 minutes. That sort of drop would send me into sheer panic and I'd practically choke grabbing whatever was nearby. I'd chew threw candy bar wrappers, pour 1/2 a cup of sugar in some juice, spill sugar everywhere, etc. My heart would be pounding mostly from the adrenalin rush of the hypo itself, but my fear was way up there too, so I'd always overtreat.

As a pumper, I don't get those fast moving hypos, so I can treat with fresh fruit, a fruit cup andthe other stuff I've mentioned tonight already.

My question to you: are you having the type of lows I just described when on MDI? Are you needing assistance from others during your worst lows? Are you "freaking out"? Having anxiety attacks? Man, I went through that for 18 solid years and it was no picnic! I'm asking all this because I want to understand your motivation for wanting something faster than Glucotabs, yet not something as dramatic and expensive as Glucagon injections to treat your lows.

Which brings me to another question that might make a great poll on both the T1 and T2 forums--who has Glucagon at home, and who carries it with them most everywhere they go? I've got some outdated ones, carry the most recent one with me, but haven't used Glucagon in 10+ years.

When all is said and done, even though I get hypos still, I don't even avail myself of foul tasting glucotabs anylonger--I eat a tasty treat or fruit. I sure wouldn't want to miss the treat in favor of a spray.

Now if I was still the guy who'd topple over in a near faint from a horrific hypo, then I might want to have a FAST acting spray if it were to raise my bg's about as quickly as a Glucagon shot. THAT would be cool!

Enough rambling...sorry.

[Harold]

Glucose or fructose can be asbsorbed through the membranes of the mouth. So there is no real reason to breath it into the lungs.

[BriOnH]

I rarely go low. I haven't needed assitance with a low in over 15+ years. The last time I had glucagon, administered by myself, was 13 years ago. I pray this continues until I die. At most my sugar will drop 2 mg/dl per minute. At that rate it's easy to catch. I've just been trumatized by the severe lows I had as a child which causes me anxiety. Which is a whole seperate issue that I am dealing with. I always cary glucagon with me. My left pocket always has the red kit and a cell.

[BriOnH]

Glucose or fructose can be asbsorbed through the membranes of the mouth. So there is no real reason to breath it into the lungs.
I believe the time in the lungs, due to the exposed cappillaries in the bronchiloi and the direct access to the pulmanary artery and vein would be significantly faster. Still TBD though.

[Dewey]

What about the scuba pony bottles we talked about (for those who don't know, pony bottles are really small - they have ones that are handheld sized, and that's what I was thinking of)? It would be good as there would be enough in there for quick "hits." The asthma inhaler would probably be more the standard, but the pony bottle could be for vacations or for times when you're out hiking or on longer trips. Just a thought.

[BriOnH]

What about the scuba pony bottles we talked about (for those who don't know, pony bottles are really small - they have ones that are handheld sized, and that's what I was thinking of)? It would be good as there would be enough in there for quick "hits." The asthma inhaler would probably be more the standard, but the pony bottle could be for vacations or for times when you're out hiking or on longer trips. Just a thought.

Absolutely Dewey! I didn't know if you wanted me to share your idea or not ;).

[Dewey]

Absolutely Dewey! I didn't know if you wanted me to share your idea or not ;).
No problem. I should've specified to you earlier....My bad. :o

By the way, I think this is a good idea, especially if it can help people quickly.

[spike]

What about the scuba pony bottles we talked about (for those who don't know, pony bottles are really small - they have ones that are handheld sized, and that's what I was thinking of)? It would be good as there would be enough in there for quick "hits." The asthma inhaler would probably be more the standard, but the pony bottle could be for vacations or for times when you're out hiking or on longer trips. Just a thought.


Got a pic of one?

[JasonJayhawk]

Wow, Brion, I can see the patent lawyers and owners of those "Invention" companies cringing with the patent office being on-line.

The patent maintenance fees are super-high. That makes it difficult for someone without a huge financial backing to actually stay in business. :eviltongu

[BriOnH]

The patent maintenance fees are super-high. That makes it difficult for someone without a huge financial backing to actually stay in business. :eviltongu

Just do what I do. Get a credit card at a low apr and pray it works!!! lol.

[HelenM]

I would like a way of taking on board glucose whilst exercising without having to coat my mouth (and teeth) with sugar. When I'm running for a long time I'm sucking glucose tabs every 20- 30 minutes I don't think I'm doing my teeth any good and hate the sweet taste. If the inhaler worked like a glucose tab and was very portable I'd use one. If they could be programed to deliver variable (larger) doses maybe other non diabetic runners would like them as many people are nauseated by glucose gels so can't use them.

[kidvid]

Call me old fashioned, but I think my system was designed to take on glucose somewhere besides my respiratory tract. The mouth and related parts - sure. Stomach, digestive tract - yup. Leave my lungs outta' this equation.

Good Luck!

Joe

[BriOnH]

Call me old fashioned, but I think my system was designed to take on glucose somewhere besides my respiratory tract. The mouth and related parts - sure. Stomach, digestive tract - yup. Leave my lungs outta' this equation.

Good Luck!

Joe

Your system was also designed to make insulin ;)

[sedita]

Brian,

I have two questions.

I know you mentioned that the lungs can expel sugar, but do you have any evidence that they can take it up. I know that glucose movement relies on transporters, are they setup to take glucose up from the airways?

Also, do you think there is any risk of infection due to putting concentrated sugar into the lungs. Obviously the lungs werent really designed for this purpose. I know you mention that you will be packing in and using sterile equipment/reagents, however, I wondering if adding sugar to the lungs will create an a good enviroment for any bacteria that happen to enter your lungs through normal respiration or even the native flora to grow out of control causing an infection. If it is taken up readily and efficiently then this might not be an issue.

Best of luck with the idea though.

[grace girl]

I think it's a very interesting idea. I personally despise glucose tablets in all forms, also those nasty gels. I'm one of the oddies who can't seem to stand the idea of something sweet when going low.
What always makes me nervous in a real low, (below 50) is knowing how long it will take for what I've eaten to kick in...sometimes dealing with symptoms for 15 to 30 minutes, waiting to see if it's still dropping on spite of what I've eaten....and the longer the symptoms the longer it seems to take me to bounce back from the whole thing.
That being said, anything that could give you instant recovery from a low would be of definate interest. I would want to know the effect on the lungs, of course, but if it proved to be safe and effective, I'd go for it in a minute.

[slipperyelm]

Brian, you are going to need a lot more info to proceed with this. There are many factors to consider. For example, that mist you see in the produce department at the grocery is actually a lot larger particles than is used in medical inhalers. You are going to need to deliver the same number of grams of glucose via the lungs as you would via the mouth/digestive tract in order to raise blood sugar equivalently. I'm looking at a 17gram albuterol inhaler. 17 grams gives 200 "puffs". While the weight per volume of glucose is not the same as the weight per volume of albuterol, I think that can give you a starting point for imagining how much glucose you could really get into the lungs via inhaler. It would take a large volume and you'd have to inhale it all day long to get your dose.

Of course the needed grams of glucose could be delivered with a larger particle size in less time, with fewer puffs. But then, what happens? For a certain number of people, the larger particle size would tip off an asthma attack. This could happen even in a person who has never before had asthma. Those who did not get an asthma attack would find themselves coughing and choking as the larger particles deposit higher in the respiratory tree, such as on the carina (fist branching point of the trachea as it changes to two bronchi going to the lungs.) This is just a matter of physics. Larger particles cannot carry as far. They will "rain out," before reaching the alveoli where glucose might be able to absorb through the membranes. Particle size has always been a challenge in the design of inhalers. And even with the best asthma inhalers, there are still some people for who the mechanical irritation of the particles will cause the very bronchoconstriction that they are trying to treat.

Then there is the problem of the glucose changing the interstitial osmotic pressures within the lung. Glucose is hydrophillic, meaning that it will "attract" water. Water will move out of the spaces between cells and into the air sacs where glucose has been deposited. Air exchange would be impeded as the water filled the spaces. This would cause a drowning effect called pulmonary edema.

As someone above mentioned, too, delivering a consistant. dose of meds by aerosol is not something you can count on.

Another thing that concerns me is that glucose is the source of energy for nearly all life on earth, including those disease causing microbes that may be in our lungs at anytime. I don't think I want to feed them and get pneumonia!

I'm not sure glucose can even pass through the lung membane and capillary membrane passively. It might require--insulin!

And what do you mean by the lungs produce glucose in respiration? We might have a couple uses of the word respiration mixed up. Strictly speaking, I think respiration is the oxidation of glucose within the cells--- The burning of glucose which all cells must do. What we call pulmonary respiration (breathing) is really just an exchange of gases to and from the body and atmosphere. It has nothing to do with glucose. I know of no evidence that the lungs produce glucose. Like all other body cells, the lungs cells use glucose. Pulmonary respiration (breathing) provides the oxygen for what I'd call real respiration--the oxidation of glucose in all the cells of the body. To speak of breathing in and out as respiration is probably a misnomer.

On the whole, I am skeptical about delivering glucose via an inhaler.

[spike]

And what do you mean by the lungs produce glucose in respiration? We might have a couple uses of the word respiration mixed up. Strictly speaking, I think respiration is the oxidation of glucose within the cells--- The burning of glucose which all cells must do. What we call pulmonary respiration (breathing) is really just an exchange of gases to and from the body and atmosphere. It has nothing to do with glucose. I know of no evidence that the lungs produce glucose. Like all other body cells, the lungs cells use glucose. Pulmonary respiration (breathing) provides the oxygen for what I'd call real respiration--the oxidation of glucose in all the cells of the body. To speak of breathing in and out as respiration is probably a misnomer.

On the whole, I am skeptical about delivering glucose via an inhaler.

ALL good points!

I cough when I make myself a pitcher of Crystal Light. the powder is so fine it drifts into my lungs as I pour it into the pitcher. I also don't like my asthma inhalers for the same reason, but of course, I use them as necessary. I'd rather eat my carbs! :)

[BriOnH]

Brian, you are going to need a lot more info to proceed with this. There are many factors to consider. For example, that mist you see in the produce department at the grocery is actually a lot larger particles than is used in medical inhalers. You are going to need to deliver the same number of grams of glucose via the lungs as you would via the mouth/digestive tract in order to raise blood sugar equivalently. I'm looking at a 17gram albuterol inhaler. 17 grams gives 200 "puffs". While the weight per volume of glucose is not the same as the weight per volume of albuterol, I think that can give you a starting point for imagining how much glucose you could really get into the lungs via inhaler. It would take a large volume and you'd have to inhale it all day long to get your dose.

Of course the needed grams of glucose could be delivered with a larger particle size in less time, with fewer puffs. But then, what happens? For a certain number of people, the larger particle size would tip off an asthma attack. This could happen even in a person who has never before had asthma. Those who did not get an asthma attack would find themselves coughing and choking as the larger particles deposit higher in the respiratory tree, such as on the carina (fist branching point of the trachea as it changes to two bronchi going to the lungs.) This is just a matter of physics. Larger particles cannot carry as far. They will "rain out," before reaching the alveoli where glucose might be able to absorb through the membranes. Particle size has always been a challenge in the design of inhalers. And even with the best asthma inhalers, there are still some people for who the mechanical irritation of the particles will cause the very bronchoconstriction that they are trying to treat.

Then there is the problem of the glucose changing the interstitial osmotic pressures within the lung. Glucose is hydrophillic, meaning that it will "attract" water. Water will move out of the spaces between cells and into the air sacs where glucose has been deposited. Air exchange would be impeded as the water filled the spaces. This would cause a drowning effect called pulmonary edema.

As someone above mentioned, too, delivering a consistant. dose of meds by aerosol is not something you can count on.

Another thing that concerns me is that glucose is the source of energy for nearly all life on earth, including those disease causing microbes that may be in our lungs at anytime. I don't think I want to feed them and get pneumonia!

I'm not sure glucose can even pass through the lung membane and capillary membrane passively. It might require--insulin!

And what do you mean by the lungs produce glucose in respiration? We might have a couple uses of the word respiration mixed up. Strictly speaking, I think respiration is the oxidation of glucose within the cells--- The burning of glucose which all cells must do. What we call pulmonary respiration (breathing) is really just an exchange of gases to and from the body and atmosphere. It has nothing to do with glucose. I know of no evidence that the lungs produce glucose. Like all other body cells, the lungs cells use glucose. Pulmonary respiration (breathing) provides the oxygen for what I'd call real respiration--the oxidation of glucose in all the cells of the body. To speak of breathing in and out as respiration is probably a misnomer.

On the whole, I am skeptical about delivering glucose via an inhaler.


You should be skeptical as this is nothing more than a hypothesis.

The grocery store analogy was for lamens terms. The mist would have to be much finer. This is a pressure issue.

Great point about the 17g inhaler. I am not sure how to get around this as 15g of glucose is 15g of glucose. I would not want to cause an asthmatic reaction in anyone. I believe I will be able to get around this as I test. If and when I decide to test it.

By the time the glucose absorbs I don't believe it will have had time to change the osmotic pressures enough to cause concern. Also the glucose will not sit around, it will be absorbed. Therefore there will be no media to grow bacteria anymore then without. I don't see how it would need insulin to cross the membrane. The sugar is not being metabolized there it is being difussed. Big difference. If sterroids and insulin can crosee, I have very little doubt that glucose can't. This is still hypothetical.

As long as a dose can be delivered around 10g (+/- 5g) I don't think dose is an issue.

I mean exactly what I said with the lungs producing glucose. While it may be a misnomer it is still a fact. The lungs respire(Cellular respiration). The lungs cells contain a glucose bi-product already. Thanks for the clarity though as people should know the difference between cellular and pulmonary respiration.

I'll assume you have asthma as you bring up great points, seem to know a little bit about the physiology of lungs, and have an albuterol inhaler handy. Thanks for the comments.

[JasonJayhawk]

I had to dig around to find this thread. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it... from "Generex Labs" -- (a company that produces some questionable products on television for "supplements")...

Announcing... "GlucoseRapidSpray."

They even made a fact sheet for it.
http://www.glucoserapidspray.com/GRS_Factsheet.pdf


Makes me wonder how long they had it in the works, or if they happened to see Brion's patent application and took off with the idea.

edit: ooops, it looks like it's a spray for the mouth...hence the multi-flavors. Well, that's what I get for not reading the instructions. I would have sprayed the stuff in my nose during a hypoglycemic event.

[Funnygrl]

I had to dig around to find this thread. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it... from "Generex Labs" -- (a company that produces some questionable products on television for "supplements")...

Announcing... "GlucoseRapidSpray."

They even made a fact sheet for it.
http://www.glucoserapidspray.com/GRS_Factsheet.pdf


Makes me wonder how long they had it in the works, or if they happened to see Brion's patent application and took off with the idea.

edit: ooops, it looks like it's a spray for the mouth...hence the multi-flavors. Well, that's what I get for not reading the instructions. I would have sprayed the stuff in my nose during a hypoglycemic event.
Just 80 sprays to get 15 grams, too!

[JasonJayhawk]

Just 80 sprays to get 15 grams, too!
Aww, yikes! We'd probably get a net negative impact on glucose levels after pumping it 80 times! :D

[BriOnH]

****! 80 sprays for an effective dose!! Might as well take off the cap and drink it :). I might buy it just to try inhaling it. That was a big obstacle I was facing though. Seems you can't get an effective dose in a single spray or few sprays.

At least I have the patent though :). Maybe inhalable is the next step for them.

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but when I eat glucose tabs a slight powder erupts from them, I usually inhale that power while chewing. Not sure if it helps or not, but it is pleasant.

Thanks for that post Jason.

[jen_slc]

Generex Biotechnology's main product is an insulin delivery device. It looks like an asthma inhaler, but it's not directed for delivery through the lungs, its target delivery method is through the inner cheeks. Besides that, it looks like they've got painkillers, heparin and vaccines in the works too, all based on their (patented, I would assume) cheek delivery method. It's possible they might try for inhalable glucose, but I don't know if there's really a market for it. The glucose mist to the cheeks, which they already have, probably works better than an inhalable mist to the lungs.

[Bladerunner]

I think there is already a product like what you want to introduce, its called "Glucose RapidSpray" Generex Biotechnology - Innovations in Drug Delivery (http://www.generex.com/products/glucose_rapidspray/default.asp) its not inhaled into the longs but into the cheaks.
they also make a insulinspray that doesnt need to be sprayd into the longs but into the buccal mucosa its already on the markets in Ecuador. Generex Biotechnology - Innovations in Drug Delivery (http://www.generex.com/products/oral-lyn/default.asp)
I dont know if glucose sprayed into the longs is that healthy thow, but perhaps you can get it on the markets. good luck.

[HollyB]

Here's what would interest me. If you developed a glucose spray, even if it didn't get into the lungs but kind of coated the mouth with glucose, that you could safely puff in the mouth of a person (ie my kid!) who was unconscious or just too out of it to eat (ie an alternative to glucagon, or a first thing to try at least), that would give me quite a bit of peace of mind. Teachers in our area as a rule do not administer glucagon, and it's really too much to expect another kid to do it. But if, for example on the upcoming school trip, I could give a teacher and a roommate each a glucose puffer and say, if he's low and can't swallow juice give him four puffs of this (and call 911 if he doesn't respond right away) -- that's something anyone can do.

I expect that for everyday lows most people would prefer eating. But for an emergency back-up, if it could be used safely, it woudl be awesome.

[Funnygrl]

Here's what would interest me. If you developed a glucose spray, even if it didn't get into the lungs but kind of coated the mouth with glucose, that you could safely puff in the mouth of a person (ie my kid!) who was unconscious or just too out of it to eat (ie an alternative to glucagon, or a first thing to try at least), that would give me quite a bit of peace of mind. Teachers in our area as a rule do not administer glucagon, and it's really too much to expect another kid to do it. But if, for example on the upcoming school trip, I could give a teacher and a roommate each a glucose puffer and say, if he's low and can't swallow juice give him four puffs of this (and call 911 if he doesn't respond right away) -- that's something anyone can do.

I expect that for everyday lows most people would prefer eating. But for an emergency back-up, if it could be used safely, it woudl be awesome.
Yes, but it takes 80 sprays. Glucagon hurts, but if you're unconscious, that's what you want. Not 80 sprays of something.

I wonder if there would be a way to make it more concentrated.

[BriOnH]

The point in the inhalable glucose is to raise blood sugar as quickly as possible. Usually when you inhale things the effects are super fast. Wonder how I thought of this idea lol. As pointed out though, to concentrate such a spray per 'burst' is very difficult. Also I don't know if glucose will work in this intended way.