Lantus in a NOVOPEN3

[Stuboy]

Who said you can't use Lantus in a novopen? :D

http://www.stuartaylward.co.uk/diabetes/novolantus.jpg

[Funnygrl]

And you have absolutely no studies showing this is safe or accurate. I wouldn't do it. Medical devices are things meant to be used as directed.

[DeusXM]

I'd be careful - the plunger might not be calibrated correctly.

How did you manage to screw the needle on?

[Stuboy]

why would it not be calibrated properly? Surely if it's calibrated well enough to dose novorapid, it's calibrated properly?

Oh well, guess i'll carry on using the crappy autopen!

[Funnygrl]

why would it not be calibrated properly? Surely if it's calibrated well enough to dose novorapid, it's calibrated properly?

Oh well, guess i'll carry on using the crappy autopen!
If the lantus cartridge isn't exactly the same as the lantus cartridge, it will dose inaccurately. If you want to use your novo pen for lantus, get Levemir.

[BlueSky]

The problem is the design. Lantus cartridges don't fit in a Novopen. With Lantus, the needle screws onto the pen (like with a Humalog pen). With Novo, the needle screws ont the cartridges, which are made with a thread on them.

Lantus works fine with a Humalog pen. Because I have been using one ever scince I switched to Lantus two years ago, calibration differences are irrelevant. The calibration may well be a bit dfferent, but as long as you don't switch between different pens, you will get consistent dosing. :)

[Funnygrl]

The needle on my lantus cartridge screws onto the cartridge, not the pen.

[Stuboy]

but you can screw the needle to a lantus cartridge! clearly you can... because i did it...

[BlueSky]

but you can screw the needle to a lantus cartridge! clearly you can... because i did it...
Well the Lantus cartridges must be different here (New Zealand). I use Novopens for Actrapid and Novorapid. And I would use one for Lantus too if I could. If you want to try switching to the Novopen, it is probably a good idea to reduce the number of units to start with and titrate the dosage upwards to the level that works best for you. :)

[Stuboy]

it's only a plastic bit that pulls off a novorapid cartridge, the cartridges themselves are identical. novo nordisk just put plastic attatchments on them to screw a needle on! It clips right onto a lantus cartridge.

[BlueSky]

..... novo nordisk just put plastic attatchments on them to screw a needle on! It clips right onto a lantus cartridge.
Hmmm .... I hadn't thought of that! When I have finished my current Novorapid cartridge, I will try taking the thread off and putting it on a Lantus cartridge. I would like to be able to use Lantus with an Innovo pen, which displays the number of units of the last shot on a digital screen. It will help with dosage titration. :)

[Stuboy]

ok, welll my disclaimer is it's not my fault if your dosage goes wrong :P at your own risk! but do let me know if it's all good! lol

[SueM]

Dumb question but if you don't like the pen why not use a syringe for the lantus?

[Stuboy]

ummm... nah, i'd rather avoid using a syringe!!

[JJeenn]

why would it not be calibrated properly? Surely if it's calibrated well enough to dose novorapid, it's calibrated properly?

Oh well, guess i'll carry on using the crappy autopen!

I just got my Lantus Autopen yesterday and it sucks. I'm pretty sure it shorted me five units on my dose last night (the dial was pointing to five after I pulled it out but then clicked back as soon as I touched it), and the side slider thing is just awkward to use.

'Course my Humalog pen isn't much better quality, but at least it's more ergonomically designed.

Wish I could just use both types of insulin in the Novopens, those things are nice!

[2high]

Stu, I think you're nuts pulling apart cartridges and the like to make new ones... but you already know that...

I guess its semi-safe as long as you're monitoring carefully, and ur bgs have been good so far, as we discussed...

Just be careful!!

Kit

[Funnygrl]

All I have to say is that this is really stupid...Lantus is once a day...deal with the crappy pen. Using a pen not designed to take those cartridges would be remarkably stupid, it can be very unsafe. It would be like me using freestyle strips in a onetouch meter. And if you really don't like it that much get Levemir or use a syringe.

[Stuboy]

OK OK I GET IT! you think im STUPID. gees

[SueM]

OK OK I GET IT! you think im STUPID. gees

You got it in 1 Stu especialy when you are playing with your life.:)
Insulin is a lethel weapon but also the elixer of life use with caution and comon sense.
If the Lantus was ment to go in that pen the vials would have been made to do so.
We are not having a go at you just concerned for your safety and any poor sod you meet on the rd if you are driving and have an unexpected hypo at the wheel.

[Stuboy]

not that i said i was GOING to use it anyway... Just making the point that it was said lantus CAN'T be used in a novopen, when infact it CAN. im a fiddler, I like to fiddle, so sew me!

[BlueSky]

...... are playing with your life.:)
Insulin is a lethel weapon ......
This is uneccesarily melodramatic. A couple of units here or there is really not going to make much difference. We should all be continually titrating dosage levels to get the best result, in any case. Trying different options is part of an ongoing learning process. And I applaud anyone who "thinks outside of the box" to optimise what is a challenging system. Allowing ourselves to be constrained by conventional boundaries, I believe, robs us of a sense of ownership and personal achievement.

I am getting philosophically distracted here. Maybe I shouldn't have had that second glass of wine .... Time for bed!

[DeusXM]

Ok everyone chill out and let's take a couple of steps back here. Can we get a consensus on something?

It might be physically possible to fit a Lantus cart into a Novopen and it might even work well. However, because of the nature of the equipment used, you add in an extra margin of error to your dosing accuracy. This is an extra margin which probably most of us would not be happy with and as such would strongly recommend against such a course.

Having said that...there are also ways of evaluating the accuracy - for instance, I believe that the thin part outer plastic cap for a needle (not the inner) is designed to hold exactly 20u of insulin - it's a purposefully included calibration mechanism to check the effectiveness of your insulin delivery device. If you find that using your new mechanism, you're able to accurately deliver 20u each time, you have probably eliminated the margin for error. I'm all for experimentation - there's a lot of received wisdom about elements of diabetes treatment which can be safely disregarded. For instance, I don't use alcohol swabs, I change my needle when I change my cart (instead of after every injection) and my current lancet has been in use for about 4 months now. These are 'cheats' that I'm comfortable with because I've checked the impact they have on my control and its negligible. If you are able to do the same with your Lantus conversion than there isn't necessarily a problem.

[2high]

Ah Deus... The voice of reason...

Stu, Deus is right...

And I better not have been included in that group you think were calling you stupid!

[JasonJayhawk]

Stu,

You can do a non-scientific dosing test by performing the "pen needle test" as described in the Novopen manual.

I think it's described as leaving the pen needle's cap on, dialing up 20 units, and dosing for it. If twenty units are expelled from the needle, it should line up with the plastic indentation in the pen needle cap.

[2high]

Stu,

You can do a non-scientific dosing test by performing the "pen needle test" as described in the Novopen manual.

I think it's described as leaving the pen needle's cap on, dialing up 20 units, and dosing for it. If twenty units are expelled from the needle, it should line up with the plastic indentation in the pen needle cap.


Isnt that was Deus just said??
Two smart people then :)

[JasonJayhawk]

Isnt that was Deus just said??
Two smart people then :)

Yes, I kicked myself after reading the rest of the thread. :egg:

[2high]

Yes, I kicked myself after reading the rest of the thread. :egg:

Not too hard, I hope!! i know from experience that can hurt...

I knew about the 20u test, but didnt even think to mention it, so nice thinking Jason and Deus!

[ang]

i'm currently using a humapen for my lantus cartridge. i checked the cartridge dimensions with a humalog cartridge and they appear to be identical. the only thing is that the lantus cartridge pluger is longer so some lantus has to be removed from the cartridge before the pen top and bottom will fit together. so i usually take the first dose from a cartridge by syringe, then pop it in the pen. i haven't noticed a difference between the syringe dose and subsequent pen doses. i realize the potential risks involved with using the humapen versus the lantus pen but so far so good. and i agree that as long as you're taking it the same way everytime does it really matter if you're getting 0.95 or 1 as long as you've adjusted and worked out you end dose accordingly. its all the same in the end. but that's just me. if me putting my lantus in a humapen makes me more treatment compliant then that's what i'm going to do. whatever "inspires" people to get the insulin they need into their bodies, then that's what they should do.

[Funnygrl]

This is uneccesarily melodramatic. A couple of units here or there is really not going to make much difference. We should all be continually titrating dosage levels to get the best result, in any case. Trying different options is part of an ongoing learning process. And I applaud anyone who "thinks outside of the box" to optimise what is a challenging system. Allowing ourselves to be constrained by conventional boundaries, I believe, robs us of a sense of ownership and personal achievement.

I am getting philosophically distracted here. Maybe I shouldn't have had that second glass of wine .... Time for bed!
Are you KIDDING me? 1 unit can lower me up to 70mg/dl. That means if I get 2 units too many, my bs will drop 140mg/dl. Insulin CAN be lethal. Anyone who doesn't think so doesn't have a proper amount of respect for their disease.

[JediSkipdogg]

Are you KIDDING me? 1 unit can lower me up to 70mg/dl. That means if I get 2 units too many, my bs will drop 140mg/dl. Insulin CAN be lethal. Anyone who doesn't think so doesn't have a proper amount of respect for their disease.

I was waiting for that reply because I think you are one of the most sensitive on here.

[BriOnH]

Stu, have you tried the novopen 4? It's a lot nicer then the 3. I had to order mine from Canada.

[Stuboy]

du know, i was looking at those last night on the novo website! They look nice, but any real advantage or plus's over the 3? and what's the flex pen all about?

[Funnygrl]

du know, i was looking at those last night on the novo website! They look nice, but any real advantage or plus's over the 3? and what's the flex pen all about?
The flexpen is a disposable pre-filled pen.

[BlueSky]

I use the Innovo Pen (picture below). It features a digital display of the last dose injected, as well as how long ago that was. The other nice features is it's small size - it fits into an Accucheck pouch on top of the meter. I use it with Novorapid. And it would be nice to use one for Lantus too .... :-

[ant hill]

but you can screw the needle to a lantus cartridge! clearly you can... because i did it...

Hello everyone, My first post here and i have been given the lantus (glargine) to replace the old Protaphane. So this new insulin requires a new pen, So i have the autopen 24 and i do not like it!!. It's the fact that if you over dailed your dose you cannot correct it. You cannot do that with the autopen. Anyway, Just to see that is possible that the dose is the same. I'm going to do some tests buy using a spent insulin file (The actul thing that holds insulin) and get a fine pen and mark off the start of the file. step 2 to use the novopen3 to the test file using the origanal equipment and then inject 20U in the test file and mark off the resalt. Step 3 Do the same with the autopen24 and see that the rubber plunger travels the same distance. If that passes the test then do the same again with the novopen ratchet and the autopen24's magerzine. If there is a differance i would be quite serprised.:ciao:

[pinkytricia]

anthill,
I'm clueless to all that stuff that you are going thru... since I'm Type 2, but I just wanted to give my Good Luck wishes to you...
Hang in there....
How does it feel your first post...? Addicting huh...?

[ant hill]

How does it feel your first post...? Addicting huh...?

hello pinkytricia :hello: This test is just a test to satisfy your self that is a safe dosing this way.:rolleyes:
Yes this is quite adictive have you looked at whirlpool (http://www.whirlpool.net.au/)? you will find me there.

[2high]

Hello everyone, My first post here and i have been given the lantus (glargine) to replace the old Protaphane. So this new insulin requires a new pen, So i have the autopen 24 and i do not like it!!. It's the fact that if you over dailed your dose you cannot correct it. You cannot do that with the autopen. Anyway, Just to see that is possible that the dose is the same. I'm going to do some tests buy using a spent insulin file (The actul thing that holds insulin) and get a fine pen and mark off the start of the file. step 2 to use the novopen3 to the test file using the origanal equipment and then inject 20U in the test file and mark off the resalt. Step 3 Do the same with the autopen24 and see that the rubber plunger travels the same distance. If that passes the test then do the same again with the novopen ratchet and the autopen24's magerzine. If there is a differance i would be quite serprised.:ciao:

Hi ant hill... welcome from another melbournian!!!
Yeah, we all know the autopen sucks.... but stick with it... I'm used to it now, and don't even think twice about it... and at $29.40 for 75ml, i'm not worried about occassionally wasting a few units of Lantus from over-dialling...

[blue eyes]

I must be weird b/c I love the Autopen - compared to the FlexPen I use w/NovoRapid anyway. I just find it (Autopen) easier to use –


http://bestsmileys.com/peeping/1.gif:eek: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Blue_Eyes1/blush.gif

[2high]

I must be weird b/c I love the Autopen - compared to the FlexPen I use w/NovoRapid anyway. I just find it (Autopen) easier to use –


http://bestsmileys.com/peeping/1.gif:eek: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Blue_Eyes1/blush.gif


That's because the flexpen sucks, Carly!!!!!! I use the Novopen3... it's great! And apparenty the Novopen4 is good too... Bri?? You're happy with yours??? Carly, next script for Novorapid, if you want a Permanent pen rather than those stupid disposable flexpens, ask for the 3ml penfill cartridges. Go to your local NDSS and ask for a Novopen... they shouldn't charge you. If they tell you it's going to be $40 or whatever, let me know. My pharmacy won't charge, and I can get you one no hassles :)

[Stuboy]

i originally tried this IDEA because i didn't know about the GREEN autopen. I was told that lantus pen would only dose in 2 units, whereas the novopen doses in 1.

There is a green autopen 24 that doses in 1 units, which is obviously a much better method that putting the cartridge in the novopen.

[Funnygrl]

I was given a script for Levemir flexpens in case my pump fails, but I have never actually tried it yet. Or even filled it and saw it.

[blue eyes]

That's because the flexpen sucks, Carly!!!!!! I use the Novopen3... it's great! And apparenty the Novopen4 is good too... Bri?? You're happy with yours??? Carly, next script for Novorapid, if you want a Permanent pen rather than those stupid disposable flexpens, ask for the 3ml penfill cartridges. Go to your local NDSS and ask for a Novopen... they shouldn't charge you. If they tell you it's going to be $40 or whatever, let me know. My pharmacy won't charge, and I can get you one no hassles :)


The NovoPen3 only dials up by 2 unit increments right? I’d probably need to ask the pharmacist for one that doses either ½ or 1 unit.

Due to pick up new script either on the weekend or some time next week. Don't like my chances though (getting the reusable pens) - the script is written for ‘nonrapid flexpens’ (5x5's 100U/mL 3mL)

Thanks!
:smile:

[2high]

The NovoPen3 only dials up by 2 unit increments right? I’d probably need to ask the pharmacist for one that doses either ½ or 1 unit.

Due to pick up new script either on the weekend or some time next week. Don't like my chances though (getting the reusable pens) - the script is written for ‘nonrapid flexpens’ (5x5's 100U/mL 3mL)

Thanks!
:smile:

Nope, the Novopen is one-unit increments!!

[trunkles]

I have the Auopen too and don't like it much, it seems very flimsy amongst other things.

What I have found out is that the plastic threaded sleeve on a NovoRapid or Protophane may be carefully prised of the end of an old phial and ten clipped on to a Lantus vial. It will then fit in a NovoPen3. However... A Lantus vial is a slightly larger inside diameter than a Novo/Prota vial and so you get more Lantus per unit/click from a NovoPen.

I've measured this carefully and the following table gives you the equivalance.

***DISCLAIMER***

I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THESE NUMBERS, USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Units Units
Dialed Delivered
1 1.07
2 2.14
3 3.21
4 4.28
5 5.35
6 6.42
7 7.5
8 8.57
9 9.64
10 10.71
11 11.78
12 12.85
13 13.92
14 15
15 16.07
16 17.14
17 18.21
18 19.28
19 20.35
20 21.42
21 22.5
22 23.57
23 24.64
24 25.71
25 26.78
26 27.85
27 28.92
28 30
29 31.07
30 32.14

[Miss Jade]

Innovo has been discontinued (at least in Australia). I had one and it was pretty **** for the $79.00 i paid for it - it was hard to push the button and hurt compared to the normal novopens. I was suckered by the fact that it was another 'cool' gadget to try out.

I started off with the Novopen 3 and changed to the Novopen Demi so I could dial up half units when i was on tiny doses.

I don't mind the flexpens, I had them for my novorapid before I went on the pump. I've heard people say that they think they are cheap and plasticky feeling compared to the novopens, but i've never had a problem with them.

Going on a search to see what the novopen 4 looks like now... not that I actually need one..but you know, I like to have all the cool new toys!

[rzrbks]

y'all realize that this discussion only applies to the Rest of the world and not the Center of the Universe(aka U.S. :rofl:)

the Lantus pen in US is WAY different than pen evrywhere else.

as an aside, I'd love to be able to use my InDuo(which the Innovo is part of) as the delivery system for Lantus because, as BlueSky points out, it keeps a record of the amount of your last injection.

[Funnygrl]

y'all realize that this discussion only applies to the Rest of the world and not the Center of the Universe(aka U.S. :rofl:)

the Lantus pen in US is WAY different than pen evrywhere else.

as an aside, I'd love to be able to use my InDuo(which the Innovo is part of) as the delivery system for Lantus because, as BlueSky points out, it keeps a record of the amount of your last injection.
I hate the Lantus Opticlik. I have no clue where they got the idea for the pos.

[rzrbks]

I hate the Lantus Opticlik. I have no clue where they got the idea for the pos.

Believe it or not, it's much better than they have in most places.

The only thing I'd like to change about it is to have a clock/timing system as on my InDuo (same as Innovo)

[ant hill]

I have the Auopen too and don't like it much, it seems very flimsy amongst other things.

What I have found out is that the plastic threaded sleeve on a NovoRapid or Protophane may be carefully prised of the end of an old phial and ten clipped on to a Lantus vial. It will then fit in a NovoPen3. However... A Lantus vial is a slightly larger inside diameter than a Novo/Prota vial and so you get more Lantus per unit/click from a NovoPen.

I've measured this carefully and the following table gives you the equivalance.

Yes, I have done a test myself and found that the lantus vial has a larger inner sercumferance than the novo vial by about 2MM or smaller. I have taken a photo of the two vials with some good macro shot and lighting where one is just the protaphane vial filled with water and the lantus vial with the protaphane rubber plunger inside without water!. So there are differances in my test. The test is done entiely on the Novopen3 and tryied the Novo vial into a BD disposeable and proved sucsessfull, Then swaped the vials and found to have more in the diaposeable seringe. I was realy looking forward to have the Lantus in the Novopen3 but it wasen't to be unfortunetely. :frown:

[August]

The needle on my lantus cartridge screws onto the cartridge, not the pen.

Not true. Look closer.

[Funnygrl]

Not true. Look closer.
Is too true. The pen doesn't even go that far down.