Re: fish oil really lowers your cholesterol better than statins?

[dgrilli]

:elefant: Can fish oil really lower your cholesterol better than statins?


Robert Jay Rowen, MD has promoted fish oils as a safe and easy means to lower your cholesterol for many years. Some have asked if fish oils work as well as the statin drugs. And the answer I always give is: "They work better." And now a new study has proven this to be true.

The study shows that fish oils raise HDL (good) cholesterol better than the statin drug Lipitor. This is especially true for obese and insulin-resistant men. HDL cholesterol removes excess cholesterol from the cells in your arteries. Low HDL levels can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly for the obese and insulin resistant.

In the six-week study, researchers gave 48 men fish oils and Lipitor, both separately and combined. Fish oil and Lipitor together greatly lowered triglycerides and raised HDL cholesterol levels.

But fish oil by itself was the only treatment to raise HDL cholesterol. It altered the production and catabolism rates of HDL apolipoproteins (catabolism is the breakdown of complex molecules into simpler molecules). Lipitor did not increase this effect on its own. And the drug appears to stop fish oil's ability to do this. When they combined the two, they had no effect on HDL.

So if you want to lower your cholesterol to healthy levels, fish oils are the way to go. Not only are they safe, they're more effective than statins. And they protect many other parts of your body, such as your brain.

:elefant:

[slipperyelm]

How much of exactly what oils did these men take, please?

My anecdote: I do take a combo statin med. I also take fish origin omega-3 oils. I do not take the same amount of omega-3 each day. October numbers: triglycerides 123mg/dl, total cholesterol 114, HDL chol 56, LDL chol 33.

I use pharmacuetical grade oil for the concentration and cleanliness. But I do not know much about the harvesting of the fish and hope that the oils are derived from the throwaway portions of fish which will be sold for food. I understand these oils can be made in a lab, and would really rather have them from a lab source. This taxes my budget, too. I watch for 2-for-1 sales from among a couple of brands and stock up months worth at a time.

[parrotletzoo]

fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids) are goodly for neuropathic pain too. When I was having sciatica my doctor had me taking it and it seemed to help. That being said be careful if you are on blood thinners or take asprin as it can also thin your blood.

also, beware of burping! and if you have cats you may wake up with them sitting on your chest staring at your face wondering where the fishy treats are! lol

parrot

[BlueSky]

.... I do take a combo statin med. ... October numbers: triglycerides 123mg/dl, total cholesterol 114, HDL chol 56, LDL chol 33.
slipperyelm,

The HDL is looking good. But your LDL cholesterol is way too low. You are increasing your chances of heart attack by lowering it so much. Studies have found that cholesterol levels below 160 are very unhealthy. Here is an excerpt from one of them :

The research team found that patients whose cholesterol levels were between 180 and 280 milligrams per 100 milliliters of blood died at the same rate as did the general population. But the death rate for those whose cholesterol levels fell outside - either above or below - the 180-280 milligram range was more than twice that of people whose cholesterol was within the range. ......

Mortality rates were at their lowest when overall cholesterol levels included between 80 and 160 milligrams of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) - the so-called bad cholesterol. Higher or lower LDL levels correlated with an increased mortality rate.

About.com: http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8059/8011/307763.html (http://heartdisease.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/8059/8011/307763.html)

Do you think you really need to take that statin? :wink:

[dgrilli]

I hope that any who decide to take fish oil please only use a brand that it is

CERTIFIED!!!!!

Free of MERCURY

Heavy Metals

Pesticides and PCB's and is GMO free.

I would never use fish oil if I was on Blood Thinners or Anticipate Surgury.

Cod Liver Oil is very good and is loaded with Vitamin A, D, DHA, EPA.

I used a product called OilSmart by Renew Life and another product called Olde World Icelandic Cod Liver Oil Lemon Mint Flavor by Garden of Life.

You could use any brand you want but I trusted these two.

[slipperyelm]

BlueSky, I read the article you linked. It said that 80% of the study participants (40,000 our of 50,000) had identified heart problems before the study. In addition, 800 of that 40,000 died during the study; that would be 20% of their heart-impaired subjects. Do you suppose these 40,000 people with heart disease might be prone to health problems besides heart problems? Problems that might lead to their death? Maybe like-- ischemic heart tissue such that electric conduction through the heart was poorly organized? Or things like phlebitis with a tendency to clot and throw off embolisms that stop the heart or block the pulmonary artery? Or congestive heart failure due to emphysema and chronic bronchitis, setting the person up for fatal pneumonia following an ordinary cold?....Plus all the non-heart related ways in which heart patients might be unhealthy and die.

I am open to the possibility that my LDL may be too low. I don't know. I don't have enough info and doubt that I am expert enough to interpret such studies well. I do know that my doctor wants to see his diabetics achieve an LDL below 100, or below 70 if they are known to have heart disease.

Could you clarify what is the lowest LDL and/or total cholesterol level you are recommending BlueSky? Your message was unclear to me.

[BlueSky]

..... In addition, 800 of that 40,000 died during the study; that would be 20% of their heart-impaired subjects. ...
It actually works out to 2%, not 20% :wink:. And, no, I don't see anything untoward about these figures. They simply demonstrate that the body uses cholesterol to repair itself. And that tyhis is a good thing.

..... I do know that my doctor wants to see his diabetics achieve an LDL below 100, or below 70 if they are known to have heart disease.

Could you clarify what is the lowest LDL and/or total cholesterol level you are recommending BlueSky? Your message was unclear to me.

I am not recommending anything. But I do believe that those NCEP guidelines are out of touch with reality. And you listen to a doctor who promotes trhem at your peril. The study illustrates that quite clearly. And there are numerous others that show the same thing. IMHO, the best level of cholesterol for you is most probaly the level that your body decides it needs. In other words, statins do more harm than good. :smile:

[slipperyelm]

Doh! (2%!)

I could not understand what you were saying about 160. Was that meant to match up with the stament you bolded from the article which mentioned 80-160, or does your 160 number come from some where else? And did your 160 refer to total cholesterol or LDL?

[lgvincent]

I doubt it. I've been taking fish oil for many years but I had to start taking a statin because of high cholesterol. The fish oil hasn't been of any help to me.

[BlueSky]

... I could not understand what you were saying about 160. Was that meant to match up with the stament you bolded from the article which mentioned 80-160, or does your 160 number come from some where else? And did your 160 refer to total cholesterol or LDL?
I was thinking about TC. The study I referenced suggests that LDL needs to be above 80. But there is a widely held view that TC of less than 160 is dangerous. Here is an excerpt from the Life Extension website on the subject :

One of the problems we have identified when evaluating our members’ blood test results is that cholesterol levels are often reduced too much in response to statin drug therapy. It is our position that the ideal cholesterol blood level is 180-200 mg/dL and that levels below 160 mg/dL are particularly dangerous. Cholesterol is required for the natural synthesis of hormones,67,68 for blood vessel wall maintenance,69 and for maintaining proper cell membrane structure and function.70 Driving cholesterol to abnormally low levels can wreak havoc throughout the body.

The dose of statin drugs prescribed by most doctors often results in cholesterol readings far below 160 mg/dL. The obvious solution to this problem is to take a lower dose of the statin drug. We have found that cutting the dose of a statin drug in half and even by three-quarters maintains LDL under 100 mg/dL and total cholesterol under 200 mg/dL.

How dangerous is too-low cholesterol? A huge study followed 350,977 middle-aged men for an average of 12 years. Those whose total cholesterol levels were under 160 mg/dL doubled their risk of brain hemorrhage and significantly increased their risk of death from cancers of the liver and pancreas, digestive diseases (particularly hepatic cirrhosis), suicide, and alcohol dependence syndrome. In addition, men with total cholesterol under 160 mg/dL had increased risks of cancers of the lung, lymphatic, and blood (leukemia) systems, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.71

A study of 11,563 men showed that over a five-year period, men whose cholesterol levels were below 160 mg/dL had a 2.27-fold increase in mortality from non-cardiac deaths and the same rate of death for heart attack compared to men with higher cholesterol levels.72

Numerous studies indicate that those with cholesterol levels below 160 mg/dL suffer severe health consequences, with mental depression and suicide being particularly troublesome. Since cholesterol is the precursor to “feel good” hormones like testosterone and estrogen, some scientists believe that reducing cholesterol to too low a level can have a significantly negative impact on one’s mental health.73-79

Doctors are prescribing higher-dose statin drugs for the purpose of preventing heart attacks without considering that these same drugs may be lowering their patients’ cholesterol levels too much. We at Life Extension have long advocated safer approaches for maintaining vascular health that may accomplish better results without side effects.

Le Magazine, May 2005 - As We See It: Doctors Overlook Novel Methods To Prevent Heart Attack (http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/may2005_awsi_02.htm)


There can be no doubt that statins are being over-prescribed, big time! Reports of severe side effects are now commonplace. And if you haven't had any yet, you are one of the lucky ones. But don't bank on it staying that way! :wink:

[KickStart101]

:elefant: Can fish oil really lower your cholesterol better than statins?
Robert Jay Rowen, MD has promoted fish oils as a safe and easy means to lower your cholesterol for many years. Some have asked if fish oils work as well as the statin drugs. And the answer I always give is: "They work better." And now a new study has proven this to be true.
The study shows that fish oils raise HDL (good) cholesterol better than the statin drug Lipitor. This is especially true for obese and insulin-resistant men. HDL cholesterol removes excess cholesterol from the cells in your arteries. Low HDL levels can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly for the obese and insulin resistant.
In the six-week study, researchers gave 48 men fish oils and Lipitor, both separately and combined. Fish oil and Lipitor together greatly lowered triglycerides and raised HDL cholesterol levels.
But fish oil by itself was the only treatment to raise HDL cholesterol. It altered the production and catabolism rates of HDL apolipoproteins (catabolism is the breakdown of complex molecules into simpler molecules). Lipitor did not increase this effect on its own. And the drug appears to stop fish oil's ability to do this. When they combined the two, they had no effect on HDL.
So if you want to lower your cholesterol to healthy levels, fish oils are the way to go. Not only are they safe, they're more effective than statins. And they protect many other parts of your body, such as your brain.
:elefant:

Hey:

I've been an experiment for Dr's for yrs. so use me. I recommend
nothing without your Dr's consent.

I've had Type 1 for 45 yrs. Knocking on wood, I've never had a
heart attack or stroke. Blood sugar control is important above all.
I've always had a heart mur mur since I was little. I also started
smoking(best Friend peer pressure)when I was 13. Quit 26 times
for 10, 9, 8, 7 mths.,etc. Am successfully quit for 2 yrs. as of
Dec.26th/06(day of the Tsunami). I never take that for granted,
same as my Diabetes treatment. I have never taken drugs for
high cholesterol or high blood pressure. This is me:


KickStart101
Senior Member
I am a: Type 1 Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,222

As I mentioned, I was at my Endo's office on Friday.
So I thought I'd post my test results. My A1c is in
there somewhere. I was bored. If you are not
interested...carry on.....

--------------------C H E M I S T R Y-----------------------------

TEST DESCRIPTION:----RESULTS:-----REFERENCE RANGE:

Glucose Serum Fasting---- mmol/L----------3.6 - 6.0 (NFG)
Creatnine----------------88.-------------------50 - 100 umol?L
eGFR--------------------64.-------------------mL/min/1.73m**2
Urate------------------202.-------------------140 - 340 umol/L
Cholesterol---------------5.23-------Desired: --< 5.20 mmol/L
Triglycerides--------------0.49----------------< 2.30 mmol/L
HDL Cholesterol-----------2.21--------------F: > =1.30 mmol/L
LDL Cholesterol Calc.------2.8-----------------< 2.5 mmol/L
Ratio and Risk Factor: ----2.4

--------------------H E M A T O L O G Y -------------------------

sTSH-----------------------2.42-----------------0.5 - 5.00 Mu/L
Hemoglobin A1c-------------0.066-Optimal Control: <0.070
-----------------------------------Non-Diabetic: ---0.40 - 0.60
Hemoglobin---------------133.-------------F: ------1.15 - 155 g/L
Hematocrit------------------0.40----------F: ------0.33 - 0.45 1/1
RBC-------------------------4.28----------F: ------3.60 - 5.01 x 10E12/L
RBC Indices: --MCV----------92.2-----------F: -------80 - 99 f1
--------------MCH----------31.0--------------------27 - 32 pg
--------------MCHC--------336.-------------------320. - 360. g/L
RDW------------------------13.4------------------11.5 - 15.5
WBC-------------------------7.1-------------------4.0 - 11.0 x 10E9/L
Platelets-------------------329.-------------------145 - 400 x 10E9/L
Differential WBC's:
--------NEUTROPHILS---------4.90----------------1.80 - 7.00 x 10E9/L
--------LYMPHOCYTES--------1.28----------------1.00 - 3.20 x 10E9/L
--------MONOCYTES----------0.57----------------0.00 - 0.80 x 10E9/L
--------EOSINPHILS-----------0.36----------------0.00 - 0.40 x 10E9/L
--------BASOPHILS------------0.07----------------0.00 - 0.20 x 10E9/L

-------------------------U R I N A L Y S I S------------------------

Urinalysis Chemical
-----Glucose---------------------3.4---------------Negative (mmol/L
-----Bilirubin---------------------Neg. Negative
-----Ketones---------------------0.2 Negative (mmol/L
------S.G.------------------------1.020------------1.005 - 1.030
-----Blood-----------------------Large------------Negative
------pH--------------------------5.5--------------5.0 - 8.0
-----Protein---------------------Negative----------< 0.3 g/L
-----UBG--------------------------3.2--------------3.2 -16 umol/L
-----Nitrate-----------------------Neg--------------Negative
-----Leukocyte-------------------Small--------------Negative

--------------------------C H E M I S T R Y------------------------------

MICROALBUMIN R U
-------Microalbumin (RDM U)---------12.
-------Microalb/Creat Ratio------------1.0------------<2.8 mg/mmol creat

This is the first and last time I will do this. I thought I was bored before.

My Endo beamed, shook my hand and said how Happy he was to see
someone who has had Diabetes for so long, still maintaining and coming
back with such good test results,...Yadda, yadda, yadda...gave me a
paper for he Lab with more TSH, T4, hbA1c and the usual other tests.
And he doesn't want to see me back 'til the end of March. If I have any
probs,give him a call.

There were a few do-dads on the test results I noticed. He brought up
my Bad Cholesterol being a bit high...(.4 or .5 over, I believe). But he
said that since my Good Cholesterol was so high and was protecting my
heart that I needn't worry about it and I don't need any meds. for High
Cholesterol.

I have drank tea(it was always so hot that it burned me so I always
took 1/2 cup tea(or coffee)with1/2 cool water and a bt of 2% milk)
since I was a teen-ager(supposed to be good for the lipids).

For some years I've been taking 10,000 i.u.(vit. A), 800 i.u.(Vit d3)daily
of halibut or cod liver oil capsules once daily.

I've also been snacking on almonds and walnuts through the years.
Although recently, me thinks I'm snacking too much on them.

I also eat small portions of any foods. I do not use fake sweeteners
except for Trident gum once in a while.

And I drink lots of water. :) :ciao: And exercise. I also eat very little
meat.

This is no cure and it will not do smutts for everyone. But I think it
has helped me some.(watch me kick off with the Big C next week from
those pills for RA ;) ). Oh a sarcastic humour helps also. Just remember
the j/k. Oh I think I'd flunk the brain test. ;) Blueberries, and other anti-oxidents are supposed to work good for the brain and other parts.

This works zilch for RA. Thanks by the way dgrilli for your suggestion. :)

[ant hill]

also, beware of burping! and if you have cats you may wake up with them sitting on your chest staring at your face wondering where the fishy treats are! lol

parrot

I offten wonder about a cat that i had many years ago that liked to sit on my chest and looked at me:dancing2: I'm on the Simvahexal an Sinvastatin that is a cholesterol drug so can Fish Oil can be a better alternative?:smile:

[Sapphire]

My anecdote: I do take a combo statin med. I also take fish origin omega-3 oils. I do not take the same amount of omega-3 each day. October numbers: triglycerides 123mg/dl, total cholesterol 114, HDL chol 56, LDL chol 33.



Whoa..Slipperyelm Total Cholesterol of 114 is too low.

The Cholesterol Myth, Part 4: The Dangers of Low Blood Cholesterol (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cholesterol_myth_4.html)

High cholesterol may protect against infections and atherosclerosis -- Ravnskov 96 (12): 927 -- QJM (http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/96/12/927?ijkey=172mwKXqzgmtE&keytype=ref)

[otep]

:elefant: Can fish oil really lower your cholesterol better than statins?


Robert Jay Rowen, MD has promoted fish oils as a safe and easy means to lower your cholesterol for many years. Some have asked if fish oils work as well as the statin drugs. And the answer I always give is: "They work better." And now a new study has proven this to be true.

The study shows that fish oils raise HDL (good) cholesterol better than the statin drug Lipitor. This is especially true for obese and insulin-resistant men. HDL cholesterol removes excess cholesterol from the cells in your arteries. Low HDL levels can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, particularly for the obese and insulin resistant.

In the six-week study, researchers gave 48 men fish oils and Lipitor, both separately and combined. Fish oil and Lipitor together greatly lowered triglycerides and raised HDL cholesterol levels.

But fish oil by itself was the only treatment to raise HDL cholesterol. It altered the production and catabolism rates of HDL apolipoproteins (catabolism is the breakdown of complex molecules into simpler molecules). Lipitor did not increase this effect on its own. And the drug appears to stop fish oil's ability to do this. When they combined the two, they had no effect on HDL.

So if you want to lower your cholesterol to healthy levels, fish oils are the way to go. Not only are they safe, they're more effective than statins. And they protect many other parts of your body, such as your brain.

:elefant:

Hi Thanks for this info. Does COD liver oil also work the same? or is it the same oil you are mentioning? thanks again.

[dgrilli]

The Oil that I Take is a Brand called "Garden of Life" Olde World Icelandic Cod Liver Oil. Lemon and Mint Flavor. By the Spoon Full I take it.

The Capsules I take Also Daily are Brand: " Renew Life" OilSmart. Organic Flax, Borage and Cold Water Fish Oils. Omega 3-6-9- Essential Fatty Acid Formula with Lipase, The Enzyme that Digests Oils. 3 Softgels in the Morning.

I had some pretty nasty test results and these did the trick for me.

I'm sorry I could not bring my self to take a Statin regardless what my Endo Says. I have read the info and It's an easy choice to go healthy and no side effects thank you.

I gave the OilSmart to my Mother's Husband as he can't get his Blood Pressure under Control and he said he couldn't believe what they done for him.

[otep]

Yes I agree. As much as possible I'd like to take out my grandma's D naturally. Because like I said before in my previous post, some medicines are a two sided blade, it heals one part but put down something else.

[Cyborg]

Ever consider red yeast rice capsules instead of statins?

[otep]

The Oil that I Take is a Brand called "Garden of Life" Olde World Icelandic Cod Liver Oil. Lemon and Mint Flavor. By the Spoon Full I take it.

The Capsules I take Also Daily are Brand: " Renew Life" OilSmart. Organic Flax, Borage and Cold Water Fish Oils. Omega 3-6-9- Essential Fatty Acid Formula with Lipase, The Enzyme that Digests Oils. 3 Softgels in the Morning.

I had some pretty nasty test results and these did the trick for me.

I'm sorry I could not bring my self to take a Statin regardless what my Endo Says. I have read the info and It's an easy choice to go healthy and no side effects thank you.

I gave the OilSmart to my Mother's Husband as he can't get his Blood Pressure under Control and he said he couldn't believe what they done for him.

Back then, when our grandma gave us the fish oil she gave us the syrup orange flavored, she was able to get one in a chinese store teh brand was, t hink, Tung-Li; I was able to find one again at a mall, thinking of buying one again.