Do you really need the drugs?

[wiseguy]

Considering the nasty side effects of the diabetes medications, have any of you even thought about controlling your BG levels without them? To my way of thinking, if you ingest something (such as Metformin), and it makes you physically ill, it means that your body is rejecting it and this can't be good. Some other medications, although they do not produce recognizable side effects, can increase your chances of heart disease and other illnesses.

Many doctors and scientists believe that most people with type 2 diabetes can effectively control their BG levels with diet and exercise alone. The addition of some natural supplements can also be beneficial. I was diagnosed only a few weeks ago but this is what I've been doing to this point.

I found out that I had diabetes on Dec. 24th when my BG was over 500. I immediately stopped eating any high carb foods. By the time I saw my doctor on Jan. 2nd my BG was just over 200. After some tests, it was evident that my BG level has been well above normal for some time. Of course, the first thing my doctor wanted to do is prescribe a medication (Metformin) which I respectfully, but adamantly, refused. I told him I was going to try to control this on my own and without any drugs. He didn't think that this was a good idea, but then it's not his decision.

On Jan. 8th my fasting BG was 160. This is the day I started a no more than 1,500 calorie a day diet and excluded all processed sugar, white flour products, and other high GI foods. I also started taking cinnamon capsules and chromium twice a day. I exercise daily alternating weight training one day and a brisk one mile walk the next. I have watched my fasting BG levels drop daily and the past two days they have been 100 and 98 respectively. My after meal BG levels are now in the 120 to 130 range. I will soon be adding Insulow to my regime which should reduce these numbers even more.

I've done this without the help of any drugs and I sincerely believe that I can control my BG levels this way for a long time to come. I certainly don't recommend that anyone stop taking their medication, but I do think that it is something to consider talking over with your doctor. It would surely be nice to not read so many of the drug side effect horror stories.

[MJB]

Good for you!

From Wikipedia..."A drug is any biological substance, synthetic or non-synthetic, that is taken for non-dietary needs. It is usually synthesized outside of an organism, but introduced into an organism to produce its action. That is, when taken into the organisms body, it will produce some effects or alter some bodily functions (such as relieving symptoms, curing diseases or used as preventive medicine or any other purposes)."

That being said, if my A1C continues to drop, I'm asking the doc to reduce or take me off my meds.

For some people, not taking prescription meds would be a disaster for them.

Keep up the good work!:five:

[princesslinda]

Hi Wiseguy:
Sounds like you're doing very well with your diabetes control.

I'm sure many, if not most, of us would LOVE to not have to take medication for blood sugar control. For me, I had first A1c of 9.6 and was given metformin 500 mg 2 x daily. I have also been doing a very low-carb diet and exercise and my last A1C was 6.2. I hope to eventually be able to come off the medication, but right now, it's part of my "regimen" and I don't think i'd have quite the same results without it.

I am very overweight, and the doctor said losing weight should be my main goal and to do "whatever it takes" to lose. I've lost 39 lbs since my diagnosis 8/31/06. HOpefully, when I am not so overweight, i'll be able to control by diet/exercise alone. You can bet i'll do that whenever possible.

[trekbear]

Great Job WiseGuy on getting your excellent results from Diet and Exercise alone.

With Diabetes as with ANY Disease it is an individualized disease... Which means, what works for you will not necessarily work for others.

Excercise is ALWAYS RECOMMENDED as a means for controlling BGL as is watching carb intake, Also foods with lower GI help.

Although someone like me with Syndrome X.. I can eat less than 60 gms of carbs a day and with exercise I still go above 200, 2 hours after eating. While my average BGL is elevating gradually above 130-160 as my disease has progressed I am using More Metformin (1275mg AM, 850mg PM) and will probably end up going on an insulin booster (glipizide) or something else to see if that will get it lower.

I have increased my exercise from 30 mins a day to over an hour a day and reduced my caloric intake to below 1200 calories a day. My BGL is still increasing, it's a vicious cycle and as stated above what works for you may not work for others. But Excercise does help with several other factors, BP, Depression, Overall General well being etc... ( I have 6 stents in place as of November 06, and don't want more (unless it's the only thing to help w/ Angina besides bypass). And eating healthier is good for general health too.

Just don't poopoo meds too quickly, some people HAVE to take them, not that they want to, it's just the way their bodies are working (or not working, as the case may be).

Again, GREAT Work on your part and Cheers to you :tee:

Tom

[orpy]

I think about this issue all the time...I always wonder if I'm supposed to control diabetes by myself by eating low carb or should I opt for more and more medication (like should I be on insulin)? Currently I'm mostly doing it myself with eating a very low-carb diet and exercise (which I need to increase). But sometimes I read stories here of people who eat "normally" because they take meds and I think, should I do that? I'm currently taking actos along with precose but I think that I'm doing most of the work by eating low-carb. If I try to eat anything with carbs, my BS goes up too high; this is even taking the meds. If I try to rule out meds, I'll never be ever to eat anything except for mostly protein. Mind you, no matter what, my A1C is still not low enough for an endo.

Should I just suffer/adjust to a plain diet, and keep running up 26 flights every day, or am I better off getting onto insulin so that I can experience tasty food? I will be interested to hear about other's experiences...Is it better to be on insulin? I'm so tempted to ask them at my next appointment if I can go on insulin...bu then I'm afraid I'll just start eating anything...

[wiseguy]

Of course there are those who simply cannot control their BG without medication. There are also many people who can control their BG without medication but choose not to. Maybe it's because they don't know it's possible, or maybe they have blind faith in whatever their doctor says, or maybe they would rather rely on drugs than have to stick to a very strict diet and exercise schedule.

My point is simply that if a person can control their BG levels without medication then they should do so.

[slipperyelm]

I don't recall for how many years I managed by diet and exercise alone. Perhaps it was about 10. Yes, I think it was ten years. Many people manage Type 2 by diet and excercise alone. I was able to go from an A1c of 13.2 to 5.4 that way. But over time my levels went higher. Nowadays, I still have an A1c of 5.4, but it requires exercise, low carb diet, and 4/1000 Avandamet 2x day.

So, Wiseguy, your idea to diet and excercise is not novel. I believe most doctors and Type 2s consider it the first, most important action set for their health.

It is not a matter of nobility to not use prescribed meds. And non-precription supplemnets can have problems, too. If you would like to get the same molecule as in metformin from a natural source, Wiseguy, please send me a message and I will give you the name of the plant you can grow and eat to get it in your diet, Of course, I will not take responsibility for the dosage that you manage to get or for the incidental substances you ingest along with it. Its common name suggests that farmers have long known its toxicity to foraging animals.

What is the substance(s) in cinamon that are effective? Is it the same as in metformin? I've never seen research on it.

Will 1500 Kcalories be your daily intake for life now, or is that a weight loss level? If it is a weight loss level, once you raise it up to a maintenance level, you might not get the same degree of blood sugar control. If you are overweight, you have a greater cell mass demanding energy than you will have once you have achieved your weight goal which will result in less demand for glucose in the cells. You might need to add in more exercise, or take away more carbs. But maybe not, because if you lose weight you will probably have less insulin resistance. Of course, what choices you make will partly depend on what level of A1c you are willing to live with.

Wiseguy, I think it would be better to keep your proscriptive statements to yourself. There is no need to place the smallest guilt upon anyone for the choosing to go with medicine instead of sloggin those 26 flights of stairs one more time.

[DazedSheep]

Strict diets help all types of diabetics reduce their medicne intakes but some are unlucky or can't stick to healthy eating (if being overweight is how you became type2). It's logical- high carb ,fatty food and sugar filled foods raise your blood sugar so eat less of said foods and hopefully you will come off medicine asap. Exercise lots too.

[parrotletzoo]

Other people have said it before, and I'm not criticizing anyone taking supplements because I take some also but please keep in mind that supplements can also have side effects. Just because something is "natural", it doesn't mean it is entirely safe. This includes medicinal/herbal teas in with supplements too.
I just want to remind people. ;)

That being said great job on lowering your blood sugars however you achieve it!

[wiseguy]

Wiseguy, I think it would be better to keep your proscriptive statements to yourself. There is no need to place the smallest guilt upon anyone for the choosing to go with medicine instead of sloggin those 26 flights of stairs one more time.

I don't think my comments are in any way "proscriptive". I am not advising anyone to do anything. I am simply stating my opinion on a subject that I think has merit for discussion. My doctor decided that I should start taking medication right away without even entertaining the idea of controlling my BG without it. I'm betting that many others have had this same experience.

[princesslinda]

Yes, my doctor started me on metformin immediately. When I questioned why I was not given the opportunity to try to diet control, he told me that with an A1C as high as mine was (9.6 = to an avg. level of 264), he wanted to do something to "jump start" my system quicker than diet/exercise alone would have. He told me if I managed to get my weight under control, we could try diet/exercise. So far I am tolerating metformin well, have lost weight and am working hard to keep things under control.

[moorejames]

I don't think my comments are in any way "proscriptive". I am not advising anyone to do anything. I am simply stating my opinion on a subject that I think has merit for discussion. My doctor decided that I should start taking medication right away without even entertaining the idea of controlling my BG without it. I'm betting that many others have had this same experience.

You ARE coming off a bit "high and mighty" as if your "all natural" way of handling this is superior.

As someone who has struggled with the side effects of Metformin, I still feel it was worth it. My GLs were way too high and there was NO WAY I was going to screw around and let them stay that high a single day longer than was necessary.

Plus, I'm also taking a diabetic mix multi-vitamin and cinnamon and several other supplements.

I'm also taking niacin and plant sterols because my cholesterol was high, but not so high that I felt statins were worth the risk.

I'm also exercising daily as often as possible and eating as low carb as possible.

So, I guess I'm just saying that the 2 (natural vs prescription) aren't mutually exclusive and some people choose to add the prescription meds in order to hedge their bets and reach the goal more quickly. I have no desire to go blind and lose my feet.

Also, with a stoke of the FDA's pen, those supplements that are so "natural" could become controlled substances. There's nothing mystical about either herbs, minerals or prescription drugs (or a low carb diet for that matter) they are all substances than can substantially change the makeup of a human's chemistry.

As much as I'd like to think I could someday stop taking anything for the big D, I'm not about to delude myself. This is serious stuff.

It's all a matter of personal risk tolerance and risk vs benefit. For me, the risks and side effects of the prescription drugs were worth the benefit. Obviously for you, they were not. There's no right or wrong here.


jim

[paulT2]

I'm one of those people who strongly dislikes taking any kind of medication.

I'm a firm believer that the healthier your lifestyle (diet and exercise) the less need you should have for medications.

When I was diagnosed as a Type 2 diabetic last October my doctor and I discussed and agreed we would 'medicate' immediately.

The idea is to 'intervene' agressively with medication in the hope that I will not need as much medication (or any) in the future.

I'm hoping in the near future to be able to control my diabetes with just diet and exercise. But I do believe in giving 'modern medicine' a chance too.

Ultimately, we are all different. We all react to diet, exercise and medication in different ways depending on many variables. What works or does not work for me may well be the opposite for someone else.

This is what I like about this forum - we all share our experiences and opinions and (hopefully) learn a little from each other along the way.

I'm not sure if I "really need the drugs" as the original poster asks. But I am happy to give them a chance to work first.

[sweetcheeks]

Other people have said it before, and I'm not criticizing anyone taking supplements because I take some also but please keep in mind that supplements can also have side effects. Just because something is "natural", it doesn't mean it is entirely safe. This includes medicinal/herbal teas in with supplements too.
I just want to remind people. ;)

That being said great job on lowering your blood sugars however you achieve it!

I agree with this, I had started taking a multivitam (sorta like centrum, only it was generic) cause i had thought I need some potassium, and I dont always get the right nutrients every single day. I took this pill about a week and a half, didnt feel any different, but was starting to gain a few lbs back that I recently lost........i stopped taking them right then and there.... I will never take something (pills or otherwise, unless required to live) that causes me to gain weight... im working so hard to lose it.



As far as the above statement, I have to take blood pressure pills probably for the rest of my life. If and only IF I could stop taking all drugs I would try, however, If i have to take a bloodpressure pill once a day, whats one more pill? Im on the smallest dose of metformin, and I am still not down in weight enough to stop taking this drug. In my belief.

Now if you can do it, GREAT! Good for you. And congrats on your success. But If all people could have lived without it these drugs, they never would have made them in the first place.

[Peter Lee]

Hi Wiseguy;you're right, you have to make your own decisions as it's your body and your condition, but what is a medication? You have rejected Meformin, which originated as a natural product (see the quote below from Widipedia) but are taking chromium (as I do) but which some people don't take as they regard it as too toxic to take.

The biguanide class of anti-diabetic drugs originates from the French lilac (Galega officinalis), a plant known for several centuries to reduce the symptoms of diabetes mellitus.

[orpy]

Well, I just got back from my appointment with my GP (I will see my endo in a few weeks).

She is insisting that I start cholesterol medicine. She claims that if I lower my cholesterol, that I'll see a decrease in my BS readings. I don't understand this but I've decided to take the medicine for the next 3 months (I hate taking meds). What's the connection between high cholesterol and BS?

Anyway, my A1C is 6.6...down from 6.8...I am still worried about needing tighter control.

I don't mind hearing other people's ideas or strong opinions...I find it much "food" for thought...goodness knows, I don't get any real food. I can understand people feeling strongly about what's working for them, and wanting to express this to others. I don't take it personally.

[rwmetcalf]

Hi Orpy,

What's the connection between high cholesterol and BS?

As I understand it, the cholesterol in your bloodstream is produced in the body. The cholesterol you produce is either in response to or because of the insulin in your bloodstream. Insulin is required for the production of cholesterol and the more insulin you have, then the more cholesterol you produce. That is how I understand it.

Having said that, I would think that getting your BG levels down and thus your insulin sensitivity under control would also affect your cholesterol levels in a positive way. What I do not know, or pretend to know, is what affect cholesterol drugs have on insulin levels or insulin sensitivity, if any.

Roger

[orpy]

Hi Orpy,

Having said that, I would think that getting your BG levels down and thus your insulin sensitivity under control would also affect your cholesterol levels in a positive way. What I do not know, or pretend to know, is what affect cholesterol drugs have on insulin levels or insulin sensitivity, if any.

Roger


But my doctor seems to be saying the opposite, that if I get my cholesterol down, then my BS will go down, not the other way around. All I know is that I'm doing as much as I can to get my BS down...if I eat any less I will lose too much weight (I am not overweight). If I take lipitor or a lipitor-like drug, will that improve my BS? That's what she seems to be saying to me and I am confused by this.

[slipperyelm]

Orpy, that sounds confusing to me, too. I have always heard it the other way around: that lowering your BGLs will lower your cholesterols. You might look on the pharmacy's detailed inserts to see if there is any info cautioning that lowered cholesterol may result in lowered BGLs. After all, that is something that at least some people would need to be careful about.

[MYDEAR]

congrads wiseguy on taking control of your life. stay focused and take it one choice at a time. keep up the good work

mydear