Eating bread

[Bibleteacher]

I had to repost this comment, because the other thread got off topic and deviated from dealing with diabetes. so here it is again.
So please people stay on topic

People with diabetes have been told to avoid bread.

well this is parftially right.

Modern bread is made with white flour.
white flour is a recent invention, it came around the 1950's , before then white bread was non-existent.

the process involved in creating white flour strips the original wheat from any vitamins, minerals and other nutritents.
so what was left of the wheat was just empty glutten, devoid of any nutritional value.

as people became aware of this problem the industry begun to fortify or enrich bread.
however this enrichment only put back some of the nutrients with artificial vitamins or minerals. the bread is still deficient in other nutrients which are not perceived as "necessary".

and Artificially created vitamins will never equal the natural vitamins and minerals that occur in whole wheat flour.

another point is that the nutrients put back are not in the right proportions found in nature. any good cook will tell you that the right portions of foods make a huge difference in how the meal turn out.
A chemist will also tell you that the right proportions of chemicals are essential in any chemical compound.

But what makes the matter even worse is that the bleaching process used to make flour white and pretty uses many chemicals to accomplish that, and one of the chemicals is alloxan . Alloxan is a chemical that is acutally used in medical labs to induce diabetes in hamsters and mice for research process.
traces of alloxan and other chemicals remain in the white flour.

as we can see bread made with white flour is hurtful to a diabetic.

then why do people still buy white bread.
for many reasons
Most people like the taste of white bread, for indeed it tastes better than whole wheat bread.
The bread industry is only giving people what they want, it is not their job to sell healthy bread, just edible bread.

What is the option then, are diabitc people never to touch bread?
fortunatly the answer is no.

Diabetic people need to go back to old fashioned bread, that is 100% whole wheat bread, with no sugar preferable.

I eat 100% whole wheat bread, multigrain bread, and sprouted bread.

My favorite bread is Ezekiel bread, this is a bread made from a recipe given by God to the prophet Ezekiel.

It has no sugar, it is delicious (just have to get used to it) nutritional and is actually good for a diabetic like me.

diabetics can eat bread, it jsut has to be the right type of bread.

[grace girl]

I've never been told to avoid bread. Ever.

[princesslinda]

I think avoiding bread must be a T2 "thing," as I was told to avoid bread and anything else "white."

I have tried the Ezekial bread...guess it could be a viable alternative, though sometimes it's just easier not to eat it at all.

[mzizgayle]

I have found I have a spike problem with my numbers eating the white. I have tried and continue to eat, the new wonder whole grain breads, the wheat one, and the honey wheat.. A serving size is 2 slices not one as most breads will say and for the two slices about 24 carbs which is ok especially when making a sandwhich. It does not spike my numbers that much so I will continue to have my roast beef sandwhich, or my all time fav...PB&J (sugar free of course or the splenda)

[moorejames]

I find ity easier to just avoid all bread. I started out (after dx) eating only low carb, whole grain bread, but it still raised my BS pretty high, so now I just don't bother.

It's not a big deal. I've yet to go to a fast food joint that doesn't offer a chicken salad of some sort, and I even found a sandwich shop that offers a sub wrapped in big leaves of romaine lettuce instead of bread.

Worse case meal for me is to go to KFC and order a single chicken breast and a side salad. Order the original recipe and lose the skin and it's a passably healthy, diabetic friendly meal. (now they just need to get rid of the trans fats).

My favorite is to go to the salad bar at the local grocery store for lunch and load up on good veggies.

[Doug]

I had to repost this comment, because the other thread got off topic and deviated from dealing with diabetes. so here it is again.
So please people stay on topic

People with diabetes have been told to avoid bread.

well this is parftially right.

Modern bread is made with white flour.
white flour is a recent invention, it came around the 1950's , before then white bread was non-existent.

the process involved in creating white flour strips the original wheat from any vitamins, minerals and other nutritents.
so what was left of the wheat was just empty glutten, devoid of any nutritional value.

The federation of bakers disagrees with you on the history of bread
The Federation of Bakers: the baking industry > history of bread > industrial age (http://www.bakersfederation.org.uk/industrial_age.aspx)
Year 1757.
A report accused bakers of adulterating bread by using alum lime, chalk and powdered bones to keep it very white. Parliament banned alum and all other additives in bread but some bakers ignored the ban.


year 1826.
Wholemeal bread, eaten by the military, was recommended as being healthier than the white bread eaten by the aristocracy.

1846.
With large groups of the population near to starvation the Corn Laws were repealed and the duty on imported grain was removed.

Importing good quality North American wheat enabled white bread to be made at a reasonable cost. Together with the introduction of the rollermill this led to the increase in the general consumption of white bread - for so long the privilege of the upper classes.

I wont post any personal dissenting opinions on the rest of the post
because they were deleted last time.

[slipperyelm]

I just gave away my old 1959 set of Encyclopedia Britannica, otherwise I'd quote some of it for you. I assure you that white bread has been around for a long time before the 1950's. Under the entry for flour, they have a fascinating historical essay which tells of the popularity of bleached, finely milled white flours and the methods by which they were acheived. It is a long history, not recent.

I became Type 2 diabetic while only rarely eating white bread which I detest, my birth family never served, and my husband and children detest. Actually it was hard for me even to find GOOD whole grain bread in grocery stores. It is rare. But very hearty, dense whole grain bread does little to slow a BG rise for me. It still raises my BG. In fact, when I was on glipizide and sometimes had hypoglycemia, I sometimes used such hearty, heavy bread to bring me up from 60 mg/dl or so. Such delicious bread raises my blood sugar very quickly. If I were lower than that (48 to 60) I'd go straight to glucose tablets.

By the way, gluten is not devoid of nutritional value. Gluten is the protein complex that is in wheat. I have --even since being diabetic-- extracted the gluten from raw flour. It is a fun and interesting yet simple process, though time consuming. You should try it some time, Bibleteacher. Gluten can be seasoned and cooked in various ways. I like to have delicately chewy, seasoned little patties of gluten. Being carb-free, gluten does not raise my BGL. If you are curious, Bibleteacher, go to a good Chinese restaurant (not one of those greasy, fried to the hilt, carry-out ersatz Chinese.) You might be able to get a gluten dish to try. Delicious, nutritious protein!

When you extract the gluten from flour, what is left over truly is the carbohydrate fraction. Pure starch. It has an even whiter color than bleached white flour. It looks more like cornstarch. The wheat starch can be used --for fine sauces, for library paste, for ironing your clothes, for wall paper glue, and probably for some baked goods which rely on eggs rather than gluten for the adhesion needed within the product. I'm sure agrarian people would never waste it. But as for me, I just put it in the compost pile and let nature recycle it.

I LOVE good bread. But I do not eat it anymore. Well just a taste sometimes.:smile:

[sweetcheeks]

I know this sounds crazy but the only thing that I find spikes my blood sugar is pasta. anything more than a 1/2 cup spikes me normally... and spagetti is my favorite meal, but i havnt even looked at it since being diagnosed, just for the plain and simple fact, id rather not have it all than to just have a half a cup.

bread doesnt affect me one way or the other no matter what kind it is.

I only eat sliced bread about once every two to three weeks, unless i feel froggy and want sandwiches for a week or so. I'll continue to buy the white bread especially since i dont eat it very often and so i dont deprive my hubby as he DETESTS wheat bread unless he's eating subway, and still then prefers the white.

[Cyborg]

Insulin definitely makes eating high carb food like bread easier. You'll need to experiment with different foods to see what works for you and what doesn't. I just finished a foot long subway on Italian (with a little help from Symlin)... :star:

[Bibleteacher]

I stand corrected, which is OK, because no one is perfect.
However I did a little bit more research and found out the following.

It is true that people did eat white bread, but mostly it was the rich people who ate white bread the general population ate brown bread.

It was around the mid 1950s that white bread became more available to the masses. And it was also the time when adding hydrogenated oils, artificial preservatives, emulsifiers, and additives to bread became the standard practice in the processing of bread by major corporations.

another thing that became different during the 1950s was the bleaching of wheat flour by using modern chemicals, which became the standard practice.

[HelenM]

I eat bread,(indeed I'm told to 'eat a feculant' at each meal for a balanced diet) and take an appropriate amount of insulin to cover it.

French people take bread seriously after all the lack of it helped spark the revolution. They buy bread on a daily basis. The price and content of fresh bread has many legal restrictions. I find that I can eat even white French bread baguette from a bakery without problems in spite of its reported high gi. The traditional bread, Pain de campagne, is still eaten widely. It is perhaps slightly better nutritionally, non bleached, less fine flour but it is still white, the bran has been removed. Its rather rubbery and because its baked over a wood fire the crust can be very tough on the teeth!

I prefer wholemeal and used to buy it in the UK. Thats less available in the bakeries (although health concerns are changing things) , but the mass produced supermarket alternatives here are dreadful. They are labelled American Bread (whether they use American recipes or not I don't know but they are different in taste to the UK equivalents). I find them horrrible. They are very sweet. They last for ages with large numbers of preservatives, they contain partially hydrogenated fats and a whole raft of of colourings and other assorted chemicals.

My solution has been (and was even before diabetes)to buy flour at a healthfood shop and to make my own bread. I usually use a machine, very quick and easy to do. Delicious, fresh, healthy bread whenever I need it and I can control the amount of sugar and the type of flour and oil it contains. The only problem is that a slice is much heavier than bought bread so weighing is crucial for carb counting.

[glashalful]

Bread is very high on the glycemic index, meaning it should raise your sugars considerably very quickly. The more "visible" seeds/fibers, etc. that are in the bread, the lower on the glycemic index it is. The only exception I saw in my reading was on sourdough bread -- it's supposed to be lower on the GI -- however I have not found that to be personally true.

[labob]

No fair, HelenM. Now I'm reminiscing about the marvelous French bread I used to eat and stupidly took for granted back in the day when I lived in France (a long time ago). It's possible to hunt down bread with a real crust here in the US, but you have to hunt. Even in a city the size of LA, it's not easy. I'm glad to hear that you think French bread doesn't have a big effect on your glucose levels, because I'm gearing up for a trip in the next year or so. Any possibility that pain au chocolat or brioche are similarly benign?

[mg_2204]

I tried so many breads that it would be impossible for me to name them all. Some breads were said to be 'healthier' but tasted like cardboard. Why pay more (and suffer!) to eat something that tastes awful? I have my fav bread now and I stick to it. Of course it's high GI but I try (1) to have it when I know I'll be very active physically and (2) I have one slice only.

[HelenM]

Any possibility that pain au chocolat or brioche are similarly benign?
One of the plus points for a baguette is that its light so you seem to get a lot for the amount of carbs (If that makes sense)
no such luck with pain au chocolate or brioche.
Pain au chocolate (68gm) 14.1gm fat 32.7gm carb
Brioche 40gm slice 9.3gm fat 16.2 carb
neither is particularly good for you!

[Chris Graham]

I LOVE good bread. I don't have too much trouble with bread in general, but I usually eat it with a healthy portion of protein. At home, I eat Sara Lee's heart smart (or heart healthy??) whole wheat. It has 14 grams of carb. It's not my favorite, but it isn't bad and I don't spike with it.

[labob]

The carb count for brioche is actually not as bad as I would have expected. Now that I think about it, though, I probably ate baguette slices or croissants way more often for breakfast than brioche or pain au chocolat. Still, it sounds as though a diabetic can indulge in French cuisine without sending glucose levels through the roof (especially if the diabetic is on holiday and walking all over the place). I'm still gearing up for the big trip for my 50th birthday in a year and a half.

[MYDEAR]

i brought weight watchers wheat bread yesterday. it cost way to much $3.19, and i'm going to have to get use to the taste, but it didn't cause my BS to go up, and i had 2 sandwiches, yeaaaaaa

[rwmetcalf]

(A) diabetic can indulge in French cuisine without sending glucose levels through the roof (especially if the diabetic is on holiday and walking all over the place).

I have found on those occasions that I am active all day, I can eat just about anything with none of the consequences I have come to expect. A month ago I was on a campout with the Cub Scouts and was walking all over the place. I had pancakes for breakfast, sloppy joes for lunch and had no BG spikes. On Tuesday this past week I spent the day at Disney with my family, walked all day and saw no problems after eating potato chips, a bagel, a sandwich, a cookie and an ice cream (NOT all in one sitting!). I'm not recommending eating like that, but I have to admit when I'm very active, my control is much better. Disney isn't the best place to try to eat low carb, but I didn't try hard either. I did stay away from regular soft drinks......

Roger

PS - I am adding as an after thought, normally any type of bread I eat, especially a bagel, would send me soaring.

[Dewey]

I went and bought some Ezekiel cereal & bread (cause we happened to be able to shop at the organic store....). Anyway, just wanted to say again, that it's pretty good! :) At first, we couldn't find it (the bread), but it was 'cause they keep it in the freezer (to keep it fresh). Thanks again for sharing the info. on that, Bibleteacher. It's been a while since I'd had it & since my sister had told me about it.

[notme]

I also like Ezikiel bread. You can buy it at Trader Joes around here. I don't much care for it with sandwiches (guess my mother wrecked me with the good ol white bread), however, it is great to toast!

Thanks for reminding me about this great bread that is easy on blood sugar.

[FTW]

I was raised on American "white bread" and have always preferred it over wheat.

I was happy to find Brownberry Carb Counting Bread, 9 grams per slice with 3 grams fiber. It comes in multi-grain and wheat. I like the multi-grain. Even with only 9 grams per slice I have to eat it with peanut butter in the morning to add fat and protein or it will spike me.

But, it's great to be able to have a piece of peanut butter toast for breakfast!

FTW

[DeusXM]

Can't stand brown bread, and neither can my digestion. Gotta love my white bread, and I'm fortunate in that it doesn't seem to affect me too much.

Baguettes, however, are a real nightmare. Although the carb counts for the amount I eat is the same as a regular white bread sandwich, I find that if I eat a baguette I'll need about 30% more insulin to cover it and I'll probably need a comp. bolus 2 hours later too.

[sweetcheeks]

white bread doesnt affect me either

[BobbyT]

I eat one slice of fluffy flaxseed meal bread topped with butter made fresh every morning. I can't stand "packaged" bread.

[DeusXM]

Quick question about the Ezekiel Bread - having looked at the nutritional information, it contains 15g CHO per slice, which isn't really that different from ordinary white bread (12-17g CHO per slice).

Does Ezekiel Bread really offer anything over white bread?

[Bibleteacher]

Quick question about the Ezekiel Bread - having looked at the nutritional information, it contains 15g CHO per slice, which isn't really that different from ordinary white bread (12-17g CHO per slice).

Does Ezekiel Bread really offer anything over white bread?

Yes it does and plenty.

First of all white bread is bread that has been overprocessed.
this mean that in the refining process the vitamins, minerals and other nutrients have been removed. So you are left with bread with zero nutrition.

Ezekiel bread has not been overprocessed, so you get all the natural vitamins, minerals and nutritents.

Second is that white bread is made of a single grain, while Ezekiel bread is a blend of different grains, so you get more than one type of grain by eating Ezekiel bread. This variety of grains is what makes Ezekiel bread a good bread.

That is also why I also eat multi-grain, because the variety in the grains give you a better nutrition.

[mkp1151]

I eat both white bread and 100 percent whole wheat bread. Since my DX, I've begun eating more whole wheat/grain bread, but that's more an effort to keep my cholesterol levels (which have been borderline but not bad) down. I also prefer the taste of whole wheat bread. However, the brands of white and whole wheat breads I buy have almost identical amounts of carbs in them. When I eat bread of any kind in moderation, my postprandial BG levels have remained within acceptable (<140) levels.

The key here, I think, is moderation... :eating: as it is with everything in life.

[HelenM]

Does Ezekiel Bread really offer anything over white bread?

I don't know about the commercial product but according to my Bible the bread in Ezekiel was made from wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet and spelt so it contained more than just grains. Nutritionally there would be a fair amount of protein from the pulses. I would imagine that it would be fairly high fibre and low on the glycemic index.
Contextually, it wasn't meant as a food for a normal diet. It would have probably been solid, there's no mention of any leavening. If you read the rest of the chapter its clear that it It was supposed to be a bread for mortification and famine but the ingredients seem to make it a good choice for a diabetic.

[DeusXM]

If you read the rest of the chapter its clear that it It was supposed to be a bread for mortification and famine but the ingredients seem to make it a good choice for a diabetic.

Well there's a phrase that sends chills down my spine - a foodstuff designed for a famine and mortification is 'good' for someone with diabetes?

However I guess you can't really compare this bread with the one mentioned in the Bible - after all, it's pretty obvious that the 'Ezekiel' label is just a marketing gimmick rather than anything meaningful.

[Bibleteacher]

I have done a little research into what bleaching agents are used to whiten bread and I find it interesting. Here is a partial list of the substances used.

Benzoil peroxide
Calcium peroxide
Nitrogen peroxide
Chlorine
Chloride
Nytrosyl
Azodicarbonomide
Chloride Dioxide (which produces Alloxan, which is a chemical used to create diabetes in lab rats and hamsters)

Also I found out that Aflatoxin is frequenlty found in processed breads. (Aflatoxin is poisonous)

I really don't see the point of introducing all these chemical and dangerous substances into my body.

Of course the food industry will dismiss or minimize the dangers in these substances, for after all they can not admit that they are using substances with great potential for harm, and get possible massive lawsuits.

[Elise]

Yes, aflatoxin is poisonous, but it's not just present in processed bread. It is a fungus which grows on raw grains and legumes. It's also present in peanut butter, and especially in cornmeal. Hence, aflatoxin may be present in ANY bread product, whether heavily processed or fresh stone ground in your own kitchen.

[Dewey]

I guess what I'm seeing in this & every thread that Bibleteacher has started, is that he has simply been trying to share information found with those who are interested. He's not trying to force anyone's hand, or "convert" Anyone. I think the reason some folk have been arguing with him as they have, is that they feel he's "attacking" their way of life, and the foods they happen to eat/like.

Yes, aflatoxin is poisonous, but it's not just present in processed bread. It is a fungus which grows on raw grains and legumes. It's also present in peanut butter, and especially in cornmeal. Hence, aflatoxin may be present in ANY bread product, whether heavily processed or fresh stone ground in your own kitchen.
Yes, but what about chlorine and some of the other additives/ingredients used to bleach white bread? Chlorine is not good for anyone to ingest. The only thing it is good for, is to kill viruses and the like (should Only be used for cleaning, Not ingesting). Same applies to peroxide....we use it to clean wounds and even to gargle with (Not swallow) to clear up a sore throat....heck, we even use a compound or mixture of it to color our hair. I could likely deal with the aflatoxin, but I don't even drink city tap water due to the chlorine in it.

[jvetter18]

I agree with you Dewey, but maybe Bibleteacher should lay off the Bible Teaching when he's trying to communicate his message. Maybe saying umm, "Ezekial bread is good for you and tastes good too", rather than "Jesus loves Whole Grains."

Amen. Eating white bread is like a eating a candy bar. Eater beware.

[Dewey]

I agree with you Dewey, but maybe Bibleteacher should lay off the Bible Teaching when he's trying to communicate his message. Maybe saying umm, "Ezekial bread is good for you and tastes good too", rather than "Jesus loves Whole Grains."

Amen. Eating white bread is like a eating a candy bar. Eater beware.
Show me one place in this thread where he has "preached the word?" He may have made comments in past posts referring to the Bible, but only a few have either looked too far into the comments (rather than the subjects at hand) or taken offense to them/taken them the wrong way.

Once again, I think the reason people complain about him & his posts are 1: because of his name, and 2: because they are misconstruing what's being said. Everyone needs to remember that this is the Internet. If I believed for one second (as a Moderator) that he was stepping out of line, pushing his ways, or anything else along those lines, I'd shut him down just as fast as I would anyone else.

Since this thread is being so misunderstood, I'm closing it.