View Full Version : Is the Dawn Phenomena Always at Dawn?
Jan2306
02-25-2007, 01:31 PM
Been on the pump three weeks now and cannot seem to get my bg down after breakfast. Tried upping the my basal, lowering my carb to insulin ratio and now trying a 50/50 combo bolus. I don't think it's DP since it happens anytime after breakfast whether I eat at 8:30am or 10am. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
HiImDan
02-25-2007, 01:41 PM
I was taught it's between 3-5 am, but correct me if I'm wrong....
xMenace
02-25-2007, 01:44 PM
Mine last from 5am to about 10am, maybe even later.
My am ic is 3/10 compared to my lunchtime of 1/10. You really have to get the basal right first though. Skip your breakies and test hourly. Adjust your basals slowly to get BGs flat. Be carefull of day-to-day variations. I use hourly basal rates.If you do this, you may need to increase your lunchtime bolus to cover the 'first meal of the day' phenomenon.
JediSkipdogg
02-25-2007, 01:46 PM
It is suppose to start about 2 hours before waking. So if you wake at noon, then 10 am. If you are a 3rd shifter and sleep till 5 pm, then it starts around 3 pm.
The thing is you need to figure out what's causing it and then go from there. Do you stay the same BG if you skip breakfast? For me I do. Do you eat breakfast and use your normal day carb ratio and then run high? That's my problem, so for me I have to give 3 times the amount of insulin at breakfast vs. any other meal.
As "diabetics", we suffer from a number of "phenomena", but DP is the most accepted and most mis-labeled.
Tyler
02-25-2007, 07:54 PM
Weird that I noticed dawn phenomenon on my pump but not at all now that I'm on shots...
Could've also just been the morning insulin resistance that everyone experiences at breakfast...but since I moved to skipping breakfast daily I notice no rise in my blood sugar from when I wake up to noon when I eat.
Cyborg
02-26-2007, 02:20 PM
I have very strong DP that kicks in after I wake. As such, my pump nearly triples my basal rate about 2 hours before I wake till about 2 hours after and I set an alarm to wake me at the same time every day.
I am also extremely insulin resistant in the morning and need to lower my ISF quite a bit to do a good correction bolus in the morning. Often I'll do a temp basal and a correction together in the morning.
As far as my Insulin:Carb ratio, it is constant throughout the day...
It Ain't Over
02-26-2007, 04:06 PM
.
I am also extremely insulin resistant in the morning ...
Insulin resistance is futile.:D
Weird that I noticed dawn phenomenon on my pump but not at all now that I'm on shots...
Could've also just been the morning insulin resistance that everyone experiences at breakfast...but since I moved to skipping breakfast daily I notice no rise in my blood sugar from when I wake up to noon when I eat.
To me, the most important meal of the day, to maintain a healthy body and mind, is breakfast.
As regards the dawn phenomena it occurs between 3am and 9am for me.
Cyborg
02-26-2007, 05:02 PM
Insulin resistance is futile.:D
:rofl:
I started listening to the Berstein CDs today. He talks about the Dawn Phenomena. The interesting thing that he said was that it was caused by the liver destroying insulin, not from the liver releasing glucose...
:rofl:
I started listening to the Berstein CDs today. He talks about the Dawn Phenomena. The interesting thing that he said was that it was caused by the liver destroying insulin, not from the liver releasing glucose...
Stoopid liver...
someone
02-26-2007, 10:52 PM
Dawn pehnomenon usually occurs between 3 and 5 am.
Cyborg
02-27-2007, 08:45 AM
That may be the case for you, but not everyone...
It Ain't Over
03-08-2007, 09:36 AM
:rofl:
I started listening to the Berstein CDs today. He talks about the Dawn Phenomena. The interesting thing that he said was that it was caused by the liver destroying insulin, not from the liver releasing glucose...
Now that is an interesting note. Did not know the liver could destroy or digest insulin, I don't have any dawn phenomen, not a trace of it. But I do have some oddball hi's that pop up at times, without any warning and they can stay with me for days. I hae found Symlin is the only way to control them. Take mass doses of Symlin and the hi will stay in range for a while anyway.
Question is does Symlin work in the liver in any way?
Injecto
03-08-2007, 01:29 PM
Oddly, with the pump, I've been finding my morning BGs creeping up a slight bit so that I'm typically higher than my normal fasting levels. I've been pumping in almost twice the insulin in the early morning hours (from 12AM-3AM, and even higher from 3AM to 6AM) just to get my numbers back below 6.5mmol. Must be DP.
It Ain't Over
03-08-2007, 02:56 PM
With the pump you notice that a lot more than with MDI.
June91
03-09-2007, 01:06 AM
I have very strong DP that kicks in after I wake. As such, my pump nearly triples my basal rate about 2 hours before I wake till about 2 hours after and I set an alarm to wake me at the same time every day.
Ditto
I never liked eating breakfast so since I'm on the pump, I don't. This makes it easier for my morning bgs to remain constant, and I only eat after 11 am when things settle down regarding DP. I'm not saying it's a good thing to not eat breakfast - please don't try this at home ;) - especially without a pump.
Insulin resistance is futile.:D
:rofl:
oneluckyplay
03-09-2007, 12:06 PM
sounds like you might need to up your dose on your long-acting insulin
dgrilli
03-09-2007, 08:00 PM
:rofl:
I started listening to the Berstein CDs today. He talks about the Dawn Phenomena. The interesting thing that he said was that it was caused by the liver destroying insulin, not from the liver releasing glucose...
Cyborg has latched onto some secret information. Bernsteining is a GOOD THING. My Good Friend who is a Doctor Bought me his book. Some very Valuable information there
I very rarely ever mention him here because what he says some find controversial but I believe him and think the man is a Genius.
How often do you have an Engineer turn Medical Doctor? I guess if all diabetics would follow his advice the medical profession would hunt him down and get rid of him.
Just me saying these thing that are nice about him will excite some.
Oz Dude
03-09-2007, 08:24 PM
Been on the pump three weeks now and cannot seem to get my bg down after breakfast. Tried upping the my basal, lowering my carb to insulin ratio and now trying a 50/50 combo bolus. I don't think it's DP since it happens anytime after breakfast whether I eat at 8:30am or 10am. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Have you discovered a solution yet?
Oz Dude
03-09-2007, 08:31 PM
Cyborg has latched onto some secret information. Bernsteining is a GOOD THING. My Good Friend who is a Doctor Bought me his book. Some very Valuable information there
I very rarely ever mention him here because what he says some find controversial but I believe him and think the man is a Genius.
How often do you have an Engineer turn Medical Doctor? I guess if all diabetics would follow his advice the medical profession would hunt him down and get rid of him.
Just me saying these thing that are nice about him will excite some.
Hi Cyborg. I'm a big Bernie fan, too. He challenges us to do better.
Would you believe he answers his own phone? I wanted to know what meter he was recommending and called the number in the book. He answered the phone and I about fell outta my chair.
Anybody that can give we long-timers hope by letting us know that, with a little effort, complications can be reversed, is a hero in my book. The man has my respect.
Should we start a Dr. Bernie fan club?
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