Honeymoon coming to a end

[lethal]

Well i think its coming to a end.It has lasted about 2yrs 5months being on metformin and with very good control of my bs's.I have been told i have lada with a positive test of the gad antibodies and also loosing weight.
Not long started on lantus 7 units at night and bs's were about 4.5 to 5.5 after 2hrs.But the last couple of days bs's have gone crazy like 8's and 10's after 2hrs.So i am very confused now in whats going on with my body.Going to see endo on monday and i think he will put me on novarapid to control these levels.I thought i would have stayed on lantus for a while but it looks like my pancreas is packing it in real fast.Anyway time for bed now and i'll keep yars informed.:confused:

[rzrbks]

Shucks, and I opened up this post to see if I could learn something about men and women, as I am but a young child trying to make a 27 years marriage continue on the smooth path we've been on all these years :rofl:

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btw, I don't understanf why you'd be on Basal insulin, Lantus without being on Bolus as well. Seems that you're #s would be in orbit if you weren't bolussing.

[Funnygrl]

7 units of Lantus is honestly still nothing. Once you're on basal/bolus insulin and still having higher blood sugars, THEN the honeymoon has started to end.

[shockme]

first-rzrbks-you are too funny!:D 2nd-lethal-sorry-no idea!but please tell us what the endo says!3rd-i keep seeing posts on honeymooning-could some kind person explain it to me?as a type 2 dx'd in jan.-do i need to worry about this?trish

[shabbie6247]

any update there lethal? just wondered how you got on at the endo?

[dbc]

btw, I don't understanf why you'd be on Basal insulin, Lantus without being on Bolus as well. Seems that you're #s would be in orbit if you weren't bolussing.

Seems to be the "standard method" used by the medical people - my honeymoon has 3 years on diet, then diet/metformin, then I started 6U/day Lantus 3 months ago.

I queried this approach with the endo, his view is that "you always get the basal right before doing the bolus" - his yardstick is the A1c. I'm due for an A1c test in the next few weeks, so will know shortly.

I still think that while my pancreas is partially working, I actually need help with phase1/2 insulin bolusing, & leave the basal to my partially working pancreas..... But then I'm only the guy with the diabetes, not the medical "expert"......

[Kimber]

I would appreciate some input here from those who know. It seems that the longer I have D, the less I get it. (5 months: 2 as type 2 then the last 3 months as type 1.5) I was put on metformin, then actos then Amyrl when they thought I was type 2. Then they discovered my almost nonexistent insulin level with high blood sugar and decided I was type 1.5 so pulled me off amryl and put me on insulin (lantus 6 units a day) So, my understanding was I was both type 1 (antibody positive) and type 2 (on oral meds for lack of appropriate insulin usage by my body). Now after seeing the endo again last week I think I am on a "honeymoon" period and that is why I am on lantus only (basal only, no bolus) Numbers have been good but slowly going higher. Avg for the last month was 89. I was told that I responded really well to the orals and so they keep me on them until my last 5 beta cells die off. Listening to this discusion it sounds odd that I am on both orals for type 2 and lantus for type 1 and odd that I am on basal but no bolus. I swear, the longer that I try to learn about D, the less I understand my case! Anyone else in my shoes?
Kimber

[lethal]

Yeah i seen endo couple of weeks ago.I'm on 14 units of lantus and also 2 x 500mg metformin.Levels are still going high for some reason.The only reason i went onto insulin was to put weight back on other then that my levels were good until i started on lantus.I think the insulin is killing the rest of what i have of my pancreas left.One good point tho i have started to gain weight.

[Kimber]

lethal,
Interesting that you would say you think the insulin is killing off the last of your beta cells. My endo tells me that the whole point of being put on insulin (such a minimal dose) is to give those last 5 beta cells a break, less pressure, less stress. This will let them do what they can do for as long as they possibly can with support. I am glad you are putting on weight tho. I will ask about the cpeptide test next time I go in. Endo tells me that now my last few cells are sometimes helping and sometimes not (depends on who knows what circumstance..) so my numbers tend to bounce a bit because I never know if this will be a day they want to cooperate or not. I guess that is why no bolus dose yet. Hard to know what to dose until we are sure what I inject is all there will be.

[shabbie6247]

my DE told me that whats left of my beta cells would probably kick in functioning again once i went onto insulin.
it didnt happen for me though, probably too far gone

[NoraWI]

LADA is tricky because it is a slow-progressing T1. I, too, was on metformin because my diagnosis was at age 62 and they automatically assume that means you are T2. But metformin (Glucophage) is a very helpful medication as it sensitizes your cells to insulin no matter what type you are.

My "honeymoon" was over after about 1 1/2 years when I opted to go on insulin... first the basal Lantus, then 3 months later, Novolog bolus for meals. But that does not mean that all my beta cells are dead. I have a "squirting" pancreas that works every-so-often. Yours may, too. Going on insulin helps the pancreas to recover a bit. It's a good thing.

As long as your numbers remain good on metformin and Lantus, don't worry about it. If your numbers start going wonky, then add the bolus for meals. If you drop metformin, expect a 1/3 rise in your insulin need. Don't worry about that, either. It's what metformin does...

[Kimber]

NoraWI,
Thanks for letting me know that I am not the only one out there who is on meds for both type 1 and type 2 at the same time. Endo says "If it is working, keep doing it - don't question it." I had to wonder about that strategy but I guess
1. she is not the only endo to treat both types in 1 body
2. that strategy IS in fact working, so.....
until it stops working for me, I will go with the flow...
kimber

[rzrbks]

Well, I was put on orals and insulin in order to "Rest" my pancreas as well.

But CDE felt that orals weren't doing anything for me and at near US $200.00 a month (I have no coverage for Meds), I went off them and haven't looked back since. Average A1c has been 5.5 with worst being 5.9.

[Kimber]

rzrbks,
How did you get such good A1C results after dropping the orals? Did you increase the insulin? Did you add short acting insulin? Good for you! I have been having a really tough time with my numbers very recently, although my most recent A1C was 5.7 I have discovered (through lots of testing) that if I only looked at the usual 3 readings a day my numbers look good but if I look at more frequent readings I actually go up to 140 or 150 daily!!! How on earth did I get an A1C of 5.7 doing this I wonder???
Kimber

[dbc]

rzrbks,
I have discovered (through lots of testing) that if I only looked at the usual 3 readings a day my numbers look good but if I look at more frequent readings I actually go up to 140 or 150 daily!!! How on earth did I get an A1C of 5.7 doing this I wonder???
Kimber

An A1c of 5.7% corresponds to an average of 126. If you go up to 140/150 or higher for only short periods (after meals), it is quite feasible to see the numbers you get. Seems to me you're doing pretty well!

[Funnygrl]

Do they really call it the "honeymoon" phase with type 1.5? I got the impression that honeymoon describes a bonus with type 1, but not having a dead pancreas right away is expected with type 1.5.

[dbc]

Do they really call it the "honeymoon" phase with type 1.5? I got the impression that honeymoon describes a bonus with type 1, but not having a dead pancreas right away is expected with type 1.5.

I suspect it means different things to different people - I take it to mean the period between diagnosis as T1/T1.5 and the time that your beta cells no longer produce any insulin at all. In "normal" T1 that could be anything from a few weeks to a few months, for T1.5 anything from a few months to many years.

Just had my first A1c since starting Lantus 4 months ago, was expecting a number around 5.8% based on my testing, but it came out at 6.5%. Starting on apidra now. So here goes with the whole carb-counting thing....

[Kimber]

dbc,
My endo explained it to me the same way. "Honeymoon" is the time between diagnosis and when the last of your beta cells finally stop working altogether. That is when I will stop using the orals (metformin and actos) and add bolus doses of insulin. Anyone out there get a different explanation?
kimber

[Kimber]

DBC,
Do you really think reaching 150 every day is good? I ask because I have had to really work hard to keep my daily carb intake to a max of 50 to 60 to try to keep my numbers in control. Perhaps I am being unrealistic in trying to get control of my numbers (hoping for 70 to 120 with only a few "oops" times a month going out of bounds) Do all (most?) type 1 diabetics accept 150 or 210 (I see this daily) every day and say ,"I am doing well." ? I have only had the big D for a few months and don't yet know what is do-able and what is unrealistic. Should I just shrug and accept that 150 daily is the best diabetics can do? Am I setting my goals too high? I find that about 4 hours later my numbers do come down, but they go up there every day. Heaven help me if I were to eat more than 60 carbs a day!!!
kimber

[Libby]

I was diagnosed with LADA about 5 months ago. I am not on any basal insulin but have rapid acting to use with meals. Before I started on Novolog, my BG went up to 160-180 after meals even with a small amount of carbs (anything over about 8g) I do really low carb meals most of the time and never go above 120, even one hour after eating. My understanding of what happens with LADA is that the first phase insulin response if the first thing to go. That's what kicks in for non-diabetics as soon as they start eating and prevents those post prandial spikes. People, even doctors, sometimes say that spiking to 150 is normal after meals but it isn't. I've tested lots of friends and they never go up much above 100. I have read that if you keep your BG in the normal range, and avoid more than a 20-30 point swing, you can keep some beta cell function for a long time. My A1C was 7.2 at diagnosis, now it's 5.6 by avoiding the meal time spikes.

[Axiom]

an hba1c of 5.7 corresponds to an average of 126mg/dl not according to these guys 104mg/dl
Tools: Convert HbA1c to Average Blood Sugar Level (http://diabeticgourmet.com/Tools_and_Calculators/hba1c-a.shtml)

[Catcount]

Hi Lethal
Sorry to hear your news, but I read that statistically T1.5 after 3 to 4 years on orals have to move on and take Insulin of one sort or another. I'm one of those after 4 years; Lantus basal and Novelet Bolus. I want to try a one shot of Lantus or maybe a 50/50 split am and pm. I'll ask the question on the board to see if anybody has tried this

Take care
Catcount

Take care
Catcount

[bklynborn54]

I was diagnosed in 2000 started on oral agents. Did well then per doc went off oral agents, did well for awhile now all of a sudden I have begun having symptoms agis. I bought a meter yesterday and my BG before dinner was 175 after it was 146 at bedtime it was 258. I have an appt with the doc on the 15th but feel crummy and could use a little support. I have really been in denial about this whole thing.............I am a nurse and know what to tell other people but somehow and having a hard time accepting this for myself.

[Simon]

Well I've tested non-diabetics 30 mins after eating a meal and they've reached 10 mmol/l (180 mg/dl).

I've been honey mooning for 2 years now. Basal has come down in that time from 8 IU to 4 IU. Bolus went from 25 g/IU to 15 g/IU then back to 25 g/IU. It can be frustrating chasing shifts in requirements but it's probably better than having no insulin of your own at all.

[Funnygrl]

Well I've tested non-diabetics 30 mins after eating a meal and they've reached 10 mmol/l (180 mg/dl).

I've been honey mooning for 2 years now. Basal has come down in that time from 8 IU to 4 IU. Bolus went from 25 g/IU to 15 g/IU then back to 25 g/IU. It can be frustrating chasing shifts in requirements but it's probably better than having no insulin of your own at all.
I wonder how long they're gonna stay non-diabetic for.

I know many people believe normal people go up to 180, but I just don't buy that. When 200 is diagnostic of diabetes, 180 has to be at least pre-diabetes.

[lethal]

Thought i would drop a line and tell yars how i'm going.

I've gained weight (about time)weighing in at 91kg.
Dosage is 22units of lantus,9units of nova every meal per day.

hb1c is at 5 which is execellent i think esp for the amount of food i eat and i still eat a bit of junk food to (hehe).


Had a few hypo's lowest being 1.9 and it was terrible for a few hrs.My levels usually run around the low 3's anyway and i feel really good at this level.I can tell when im getting low because i get this real tangy thing in my mouth and when this happens i usually test and i'l be around 3 to 2.5,so i start taking some jellybeans which i love esp the blue and yellow ones.

Anyway time to go now as i'm on nightshift tonight.!!!!!!!!

[xMenace]

Sounds like the honeymoon finally ended ;) Y'all come back now, y'hear?

[ljg17]

I wonder how long they're gonna stay non-diabetic for.

I know many people believe normal people go up to 180, but I just don't buy that. When 200 is diagnostic of diabetes, 180 has to be at least pre-diabetes.

I agree, I think a lot more people have diabetes then the Dr's are diagnosing. I have tested non-diabetics after meals and they are never above 100.