Recombinant Insulins and Cancer

[cathyd]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading about these new recombinant insulins (human insulins, made using recombinant DNA processes) eg Novorapid, Lantus, Levemir.
I am currently on Novorapid and Lantus. I have read about lots of studies suggesting that they cause cancer in rats etc, obviously they have not been used in humans long enough to see if they have this effect.
I'm just wondering how worried I ought to be about this, and whether it should affect my choice of insulin. Obviously if I get better control with these insulins, that means an increase to my life expectancy (in theory!)
Or I could get knocked down by a bus tomorrow!
What do you all think?

[Chewy]

Can you share where you read about this? I'd be interested in learning about it.

Thanks,

Matt

[JediSkipdogg]

I've seen those studies and just chalk it up to the same one that says Diet Coke can cause cancer. Basically, there's not enough proof of the matter in humans. Yes, animals are great for most studies, but animals ARE different than humans.

[EasyType2]

The proteins in recombinant insulin are for humans. To a rat, they would be seen as a foreign substance.

The other side of that coin would be ... if rat insulin was injected into a human, would it cause adverse effects?

[notme]

if rat insulin was injected into a human, would it cause adverse effects?



Eeeeek....... you first!!!!!:eek:

[EasyType2]

Eeeeek....... you first!!!!!:eek:

That may be how the rats feel! :)

[grace girl]

The other side of that coin would be ... if rat insulin was injected into a human, would it cause adverse effects?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BriOnH]

a rat doesn't see an insulin protien any differently then a human does immunologically. There are obviously differences in the two models (you can cure rats).

Can someone cite a reputable study here?

[JediSkipdogg]

a rat doesn't see an insulin protien any differently then a human does immunologically. There are obviously differences in the two models (you can cure rats).

Can someone cite a reputable study here?

Just google "Lantus and Cancer" and you get tons of articles from year 1999 and 2000 studies.

[owlyn]

Is there anything that doesn't cause cancer in rats?

[BriOnH]

Just google "Lantus and Cancer" and you get tons of articles from year 1999 and 2000 studies.

I hear ya, and am not lazy, but I am not going to hunt for something I don't believe is probable. If the original poster could cite the study I would greatly appreciate it. I couldn't find any abstracts for it in the journals I subscribe too.

[JediSkipdogg]

Here's two that go back to 2000 when Lantus was first approved. Both studies actually conducted by the drug companies and finding cancer results, not by outside companies.

Chantelau claims, however, that that “the mitogenicity of Lantus on osteosarcoma cells” was publicly disclosed in the June 2000 issue of the journal Diabetes. According to that study, which was conducted by Peter Kurtzhals, senior vice president of diabetes research for Novo Nordisk A/S, human cancer cells (not animal cells) in culture were studied to measure to what extent Lantus stimulated cell growth.

Chantelau says that before the European Medicines Evaluation Agency (EMEA) was asked to approve Lantus in Europe, “it was found to be highly mitogenic [causing cell proliferation] on in vitro testing with human osteosarcoma cells [cancerous cells from tissue surrounding bone].” Chantelau says that Aventis presented this information to the EMEA orally, and the EMEA decided it was “irrelevant.”

[DeusXM]

Actually that study simply says that if you've already got cancer and suspend the cancerous cells in Lantus, they'll grow a bit quick. This is rather different from the idea that injecting Lantus will cause cancerous cells to spontaneously appear.

[BriOnH]

Actually that study simply says that if you've already got cancer and suspend the cancerous cells in Lantus, they'll grow a bit quick. This is rather different from the idea that injecting Lantus will cause cancerous cells to spontaneously appear.

Thats what I took from the excerpt.

So on the assumption that lantus <presumably so far> could speed up cancer/tumor growth if you already have cancer cells, tells us a lot about cancer. Does it need insulin in general to matastisize?

I just cant buy lantus being a carcinigen or cancer catalyst though. Maybe it's denial, but physiologically speaking the correlation of rDNA made insulin protiens are metabolized at the action site of the protien (insulin, like many protiens are also enzymes, and and hormones). After this metabolization you are left with 2-3 (disulfide bridge would indicate to me at least 2 junk strands) , very smaller protiens, with no really questionable amino acid sequences that are excreted by urine.

If there truely is a connection usually you can find a population with the problem -> and the news would be alllll over that. For consperiasts GSK tried to hide data buy paying many off - you can't cover the truth it will always eventually come out. GSK should still be punished imho.

[HollyB]

Insulin is, in part, a growth hormone. Wouldn't that alone be enough to cause it to encourage the growth of existing cancer? ie the insulin produced by the human pancreas might do the same thing.

Similarly, pregnancy encourages quicker cancer growth, because it encourages the growth of pretty much anything that grows.

[cathyd]

Welcome to Insulin Dependent Diabetes Trust (http://www.iddtinternational.org/reviewsandreports/index.htm)

This link takes you to a page which contains reviews of studies indicating that Lantus leads to cancer. It's quite a balanced report, and contains references of all the studies cited. Hope the link works ok!
Cathy

[BriOnH]

Man that was a long read; few spelling errors too, but worth it.

What I took away from it is there are concerns about animal produced insulins to the newly formed analog strains. It almost felt like reading an advertisement on staying with animal insulins because of 1->100 reasons or possibilities something bad will happen if you use rDNA protiens and control is only slightly better with their use. Why is this site/page's main goal to convince you to stay on animal derived insulins?

I have always had concerns about regular human insulin vs rDNA made insulin; especially at a phsycological level, but those concerns to me I believe are more with the action profiles of the newer insulins as opposed to other cascading events pro-insulin (I believe that's the name of the breakdown of the used, left over piece(s) of the insulin protien) or its substrates can cause.

Cancer felt like 1 of many scare tactics to be on animal derived insulin instad of a rDNA insulin, with little to no imperical evidence that rDNA made insulin has a link to cancer. It was kind of like, the 5 degrees of seperation game from kevin bacon. At the end you can attribute everything and anything to cancer if you want. At the end of the day, it's something to think about and keep in the back of the mind, but it's hardly something someone wo cancer should worry about at all imvho.

[cathyd]

thanks Brian, made me see things in perspective! I think the people who compiled the research are campaigning against the discontinuation of animal insulins. But I would agree that the control benefits of rDNA insulins probably outweigh any cancer risks.