Low Carb Diabetes Management

[TAutry]

Hi All,

I have chosen to open a new thread for discussion of the Low Carb lifestyle as it relates to diabetes management. I have left the previous thread in place and locked, but some of the information is still available.

Whether we agree or disagree on any particular management style as it relates to our personal approach to diabetes, let's keep the discussion open and civil.

Travis

[KLD]

Well, I've been waiting for someone to get this thread started but, since no one has, I'll take the plunge.

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in 1998, although I'm sure I had it for some time before that. I had some serious heart surgery in 1997 and had a terrible time healing, which should have clued my doctors in but didn't, and I was diagnosed about eight months later.

From the start, I followed the Canadian Diabetes Association's food guidelines very carefully and kept my blood glucose levels at what my doctor described as "very good for a diabetic." My 2-hour pp readings ranged between 7.5 (135 in the USA) and 9.5 (171). By 2002, however, I was having a number of symptoms of diabetes complications, the most serious being fairly severe burning on the bottoms of my feet and numbness in my toes, typical symptoms of diabetic neuropathy. I decided enough was enough - this wasn't working - and started looking for other answers. To make a long story short, I eventually found a book called "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" by Dr. Richard K. Bernstein, a type 1 diabetic for over 60 years who still practices medicine, treating diabetes and obesity. He advocates a very low carb way of eating for diabetics, and what he wrote made a lot of sense to me. I cleaned every bit of high carb food out of my house so it wasn't there to tempt me and got started. Much to my amazement, it took only a few days for the carb cravings to disappear and I found this way of eating very satisfying. I have thrived on it for the past two years; my blood sugars are perfectly normal (my last A1C was 5.2), my blood lipids are excellent, my blood pressure has become normal, the neuropathy in my feet has vastly improved and, quite unexpectedly, my digestive problems (diagnosed as irritable bowel syndrome) have cleared up. Although much of the medical establishment, including my family doctor, hasn't recognized a low carb lifestyle as being an appropriate method of managing diabetes, my endocronologist feels very strongly that all diabetics should be eating this way. He says that doctors who don't recognize the recent studies that support this are "burying their heads in the
sand."

There are a number of good books on eating low carb on the market. I like Dr. Bernstein's because it's written specifically for diabetics, but I know diabetics who follow Dr. Atkins and other low carb writers with good success as well. I understand that Dr. Atkins was writing a book specifically for diabetics before his death, and that book is due out in August of this year.

I know there are people on this site who manage their diabetes well on an ADA/CDA-type diet and if you do, that's great. But I know from reading other threads that there are also many who don't and who are looking for answers. If anyone has questions, I'd be pleased to answer them.

Karen

[amyjean]

Karen,

I think that is really awesome about your A1C was 5.2. I have not been able to get mine under 9.3 for the last 4 years. I am going to look for that book and see if it helps me. Thanks for taking the time to post the info.

Amy

[mark-TN]

Good Morning-

I felt this was a good thread to introduce myself on. TAutry, I think this thread is a very good idea. I have been lurking on this forum for several weeks and have been following some of the drama. I believe this thread can be a benefit to those who would like to ask questions, express their apprehensions, or for those to give some background on their success and or failure using "Low Carb Diabetes Management".

My story happens to be a success story. I was diagnosed Type 1 in 1974 at 10 years old. This September will be my 30th year anniversary with diabetes. I was diagnosed back in the time of testing your urine in a test tube, boiling glass syringes(rather large gauge I might add), and relying on 1 shot of NPH in the morning to keep me alive. Diabetes management as you all know has come a long way since then. Since I was diagnosed a cure has always been 5 years away, and it remains that way. So the best I can do for myself is control this disease the best way possible to reduce the risk of complications so that when and if a cure comes I am here to benefit from it.

To make a long story short back in January of 2003 I took a long hard look at myself and realized I was in a world of hurt and denial. I kept my HbA1c's consistently between 7.1 and 7.5, but for over 3 years I was on a roller coaster of highs and a lot of lows. I was brittle to say the least. My A1c although not great, did not look that bad to my doctor, but also did not tell the whole story. I was experiencing many problems:

Could not control blood sugar, I was having 12-15 hypo’s per week. Lack of energy: I rated my energy level 2-3 on a scale of 1-10. Was going to bed at 10PM and had trouble getting out of bed by 7AM. Did not have a good night’s sleep in years, I constantly tossed and turned and could never get comfortable. Constantly yawned thru out the day. Constant bloated feeling, always felt full. Constant left shoulder pain. Occasional chest pains. Left thigh pain that went up into my buttocks when sitting, and while sleeping. Constant gas. Bowl movements always left me feeling less than satisfied, like I was never completely emptying my bowls. Soar, sensitive, itchy, and constant uncomfortable feeling in my abdomen. Tingling in my left shin. Tingling in my ankles. Tingling in my toes. Loss of hair on my legs from my shins down to my feet. Constant dry skin. Constant sweaty feet, that felt cold with any drop in temperature. Occasional sweaty hands. Constant cold hands during the cold months of the year. Cuts and scraps took for ever to heal and left ugly scars. Discoloration of the skin around my ankles, and ankles constantly itched. Blemishes on my face and knees. Very sensitive skin. Intolerance to most foods. Cracked and receding skin around fingers. Receding gums. Weak and easily fatigued muscles, especially in legs, arms, and hands. Any type excursion left me sweating and exhausted. Periods of unexplained nervousness and anxiety. Continually stressed out. Numerous mood swings. Occasional back pain. Constant blinking from feeling that something was always on the lenses of my eyes. Eyes were very sensitive to sunlight and glare. Pronounced dark circles under eyes. Eye rims constantly a bright pink and very sensitive. When looking at certain digital displays I would see double, moving images. Did not feel or look healthy.

I found Dr Richard K Bernstein's book in May, 2003 and have been following his treatment plan ever since. His treatment plan is more than just a diet. My experience with his plan has been nothing less than euphoric. The difference it has made in my life, on several levels, is beyond extraordinary. It took a few months to dial things in thru trial and error, but it was well worth it. The large swings in my BG levels are a thing of the past. My energy level is higher now than I can ever remember it being my whole life. I now sleep like a baby, and only need 6-7 hours a night. I now only yawn when I am tired and ready for bed. I fall asleep in minutes, instead of hours. The tingly in my legs and toes is gone. My ankles no longer itch, and the discoloration is fading. My sensitive, dry, blemished, and cracked skin has cleared up. My cuticles have never looked better. My eyes no longer bother me, and the dark circles and pink rims are gone. The discomfort I lived with in my abdomen, the bloated feeling, intolerance to foods, and the constant flatulence are gone. My drastic mood swings, moments of anxiety and constant stress no longer exist. I no longer have chest pains. I no longer get exhausted from sudden excursions. My feet and hands no longer get sweaty or cold. Cuts and scraps heal completely in no time and leave much less scaring. I exercise everyday and look and feel healthier than I have in years.

My last A1c taken on June 15th, 2004 was 5.2%. This equates to an average BG of 96 mg/dl at my Drs lab. My lipid profile is better than it has ever been; TC: 177, LDL: 96, HDL: 71, Trig: 50, TC/HDL ratio: 2.5.

Mark

[hermitladee]

Mark, some of those symptoms look very familiar. My husband had the cold feet, the dry skin, gas and heartburn, dark circles under the eyes and a few more. Since he's been on a lower carb diet those symptoms disappeared. He is even off his antacid now! And even though I'm not diabetic myself, I've always had dark circles under my eyes till I started dieting along with him. I thought they'd be there for life! Guess I was wrong :D

[lilly]

i put my low carb management in the 'what works for you' thread but i think its more appropiate here.like Karen and Mark,i also follow a low carb diet,a slightly lower carb count than Karen,my split is 6,8,8,8 over the day and i balance my diabetes and weight very well with this WOE.My bgs range from about 3.8 b4 meals to usually 5.5 after meals with the odd 6.0 now and again.My cholesterol is great,my weights 103lbs and my A1c is 5.4.I eat nuts,PNB,cheese,eggs,cream,veggies and meat,(chicken mostly) and i've lived this way for the past 4 years now.My calorie intake tends to be around 1300 to 1700 depending on my pnb consumption.
I'm not saying the low carb way is for everyone,but it most certainly has a place in diabetes control for some of us.I'm a T1.5 (slow onset T1) and by low carbing,it allowed me to drop my insulin injections for over 2 years,I am on a low dose of mixtard now as the diabetes has progressed but i,m thankful to this WOE for the time it gave me as an insulin free diabetic.It works for me and i think we all have to what we've gotta do to keep control of our dx and in my case,low carb,exercise and a small amout of insulin is the best way.I would not change my low carb way of life,i don,t find it in the least restrictive and more importantly,i like having normal bgs.

Christine

[Deager]

Like most of you here, Jack has gone to the low carb solution. His bg's have been all over the place for the last 20 years. We tried everything. 5 years and 6 mos. ago, we divorced after 19 1/2 years of marriage, mostly because I was 'too mothering' with Jack's diabetes. I was always trying 'something new' that was 'sure to work' to get him stablized. We were told Jack was a 'brittle' diabetic and that there wasn't much to be done about it. I didn't give up, but lost Jack over my unending battle against the diabetic monster.

Five years later, after breaking both legs, a wrist, several fingers, two hospitalizations for hypo, and more.....he decided that he needed help. We had always kept in touch and I had told myself if we ever got back together, I would NOT mess with his diabetes. Well, low and behold, we did get back together and during our talks beforehand I told him of my promise. To my amazement, he told me that he wanted me to help him. Needed it. Would do anything to try to get his diabetes under control.

So, I played catch up on 5 years of diabetes research and we began. First thing I wanted to do was get him on a pump. It took 4 months, but we got it. During that 4 months I read books, joined this forum, made notes of dozens of suggestions here and tried most of them, and scoured the internet. I learned of the Glycemic Index and all sorts of stuff.

Tried lots of stuff. Jack's control got much better, especially after going on the pump, but altho he didn't have severe lows, he still had them (in the 40's and 50's). He also still had highs, tho not as bad as before the pump. Still, we couldn't get things right. We talked to his endo and he said to cut the carbs. Jack had been on 150-200 per day, as per a CDE's recommendation. Jack talked to his internal med. doc and he said he agreed, that Jack shouldn't have more than 80 carbs a day. We both almost fell over. I was totally depressed. I couldn't imagine cooking anything decent for Jack and keeping it to 20 carbs. I felt all I had learned had been for naught.

Then, here in the forum, I came across IceMan's posts about Dr. Bernstein and his system. I got the book and read it twice. It made a lot of sense. Before I made the drastic change, however, I asked Jack to read the book and tell me if he wanted to do it. It was when he did read it and wanted to try it that I knew he was truly committed to getting himself in control. He has so many complications that anything he could do to try to get them somewhat better was worth the trouble.

He's been on 80 carbs a day or less (3 meals, 2 snacks) ever since and amazingly enough, his bg's are all normal with the exception of maybe one in the mid 200's per week. We haven't seen any change in his health yet, but we know it will happen. Jack has hope for the first time in his life and I can't tell you how wonderful that is to see.

Also, another great side effect of all this? I don't have to be the 'diabetic nag' anymore. Since our success with this new diet, I haven't anything to nag him over!! I LOVE IT!!! I would never have thought lowering his carbs that much was possible or would make such a difference, but it does. And I didn't have to 'unlearn' anything. Using the GI, I am cooking him healthy, TASTY meals. I am also getting recipes from others here and from Dr. B's website. I am grateful to the ladies there (and you know who you are :) ) who post yummy recipes.

So, I am a big fan of low carbs and recommend it for everyone. I don't see how it can hurt anyone, diabetic or not.

Diane

[KLD]

I'm so glad to hear of the positive results Jack is having, Diane. It's so hard to make people who haven't tried it understand how rewarding this way of managing diabetes can be, and I'm very grateful to you for letting me know of your experience.

Karen

[Deager]

Karen,

Well, it's good to hear success stories. Like it is said so often here, everyone is different and each person responds differently to various types of diet programs. Our endo also recommended the South Beach Diet and I nearly groaned when he did because I am not a fan of an 'in' diet. Since Jack doesn't need to lose weight I skipped the 'diet' part of the SBD and got the South Beach Diet Cookbook. It has many useful recipes in it. So what has worked for Jack has been taking bits and pieces of things from everywhere and putting them together and deleting the ones that don't work. I just have to admit that the biggest thing was going low carb because that is what has helped Jack the most. Just seeing the look on his face (which is really a happy smirk if there is such a thing :) ) when he has a good bg reading is worth all the hassle.

Ain't love grand!! :)

Diane

[mg_2204]

... I've tried to eat low carb lately. I must say without a huge success. I still get somewhat 'normal' numbers for me... no high numbers... but ACK! I've lost my appetite. Meal time makes me gag now. Why is that??!? I must say, I hate the taste of fat. Can detect it in meat, soups, stews, milk, cheese. They musn't be too high in fat. I long for tomato & pasta salad... little mellon balls dipped into freshly squeezed lemon juice... bread... gimme bread!!!! No butter on it. Always hated butter anyway. What can I say, I'm weird; I like plain bread. Love chick peas. Love couscous. Love carrots!!!! Please, hide that carrot juice...

Marie
:)

[KLD]

That's too bad, Marie. As you say, it works to control blood sugars, but if you truly can't stand the taste of fat, Dr. Bernstein's method probably isn't for you. Have you tried the South Beach Diet? I haven't read the book myself and know very little about it, but I understand it advocates lower carb but with much less fat than either Bernstein or Atkins.

Karen

[mg_2204]

Hello Karen!

I'm not too keen on 'trendy' diets. Although I don't know anything about the 'South Beach diet', the name alone makes me think of a drop 2 bikini size diet. Sorry, can't help it! ;) My goal is to keep my sugars within a normal range. I was more than willing to give a try to a low carb diet, found all the info you've kindly given me very interesting and useful (many thanks again!)... but I think I'll go back to my usual low fat diet. I've taken on board lots though and whenever I feel hungry during the day I try to stay away from high carbs foods. I still envy your low beautiful wonderful numbers though!!! :)

Marie
:)

[KLD]

It's good to hear from you, Marie. As I've said many times before, I recognize that some of you are able to manage their diabetes by other methods and that's great. I just offered the information about Dr. Bernstein for those who can't. I'm glad you're doing fine on your low fat diet, and I'm delighted to hear from you.

Karen

[mark-TN]

I would like to pass along some information I thought some of you may be interested in. With most or all of us on the board being diabetic, or pre diabetic, or knowing someone with diabetes I thought some of you may enjoy a little history about diabetes treatment and glucose monitors.

Whether or not you follow Dr. Bernstein’s plan, I firmly believe every living diabetic owes him a debt of gratitude. Without Dr. Bernstein we may not have gotten home BG meters as quick as we did, or we may not have gotten them at all. The vary Dr’s that were treating me and other diabetics back in the 1970’s were very opposed to patients testing their own blood sugars. Companies that had the know how to develop home glucose meters did not believe there was a market for such an instrument. The ADA did not believe that diabetics would take it upon themselves to test their own blood sugars. Dr. Bernstein was the first diabetic to ever use a BG meter at home. It was a meter marketed towards hospitals and was not for sale to the general public. http://www.mendosa.com/memories.htm Dr Bernstein lobbied companies, the ADA, and physicians for over 10 years before meters became available for home use. Dr. Bernstein was instrumental in the starting of the multi-billion dollar home BG test market and he did not make a dime off of it. Dr. Bernstein was also the first to use MDI (he came up with it). With out Dr Bernstein those of us on insulin may still be struggling with one shot of long acting insulin per day, and all of us may still be going to the Dr. for blood glucose tests, and checking our urine at home for glucose. I truly believe that without Dr. Bernstein we would not have the insulin’s that we have now that are tailored to MDI and intensive insulin therapy. With out Dr. Bernstein I do not believe there would ever have been a DCCT (Diabetes Control and Complications Trial) as we would not have had the tools available for intensive insulin therapy. We would all still be in the dark about what causes diabetic complications. I most likely would not still be around, at least not with any great capacity. You don’t have to buy his book or agree with his methods of treatment or even like him, but myself; I thank him each and every day.

Mark

[KLD]

Here is another article from the same site about the history of glucometers that also emphasizes Dr. Bernstein's part in the story. It's amazing how quickly we've come to take our meters for granted, and it's hard to imagine that it wasn't until the early 80s that they became available to the public.

This is a quote from the writer's interview with Charles Suther, who was an employee of the company that marketed the first commercial meter (it's since been taken over by Bayer).

It is an interesting story in itself and he is one person who I would strongly recommend that you talk to as well. Shortly after the introduction of the A.R.M. I got a phone call while I was working at Ames and it was a guy by the name of Dick Bernstein. He was an engineer and he had seen the meter at a doctor's office or something and he had called me and said he wanted to buy one.

I told him that he would have to get a prescription and all that. He explained that he had had diabetes since he was a teenager and he was averaging one or two hospitalizations [Dr. Bernstein says it wasn't hospitalizations. It was losses of consciousness.] a month, either in diabetic ketoacidosis or hypoglycemia, one or both, [Dr. Bernstein says it wasn't due to diabetic ketoacidosis, it was due to hypoglycemia. One of the main reasons why I started all the blood sugar measurements was all the hypoglycemia. My family was mad at me. I made them miserable, terrified.] and that his diabetes was absolutely impossible for him to manage the way he had been managing it. So we talked a little bit. We had been discussing patient use around Ames in any case, and it turns out that his wife is a psychiatrist M.D., so she wrote the prescription for him. He got his own meter and began testing himself.

We are on the phone six times a month, I would say, he and I, just talking about his experiences. He actually laid the groundwork for much of what happened then in the United States.

But since he had started testing his own blood sugars he was no longer hospitalized, his acne cleared up, he felt better, he experienced a total change in his life. He became a zealot and went all around New York City trying to convince the diabetes guys there they ought to be doing this. He got so involved in it and went at age 47 [Dr. Bernstein says he was 45] to medical school, finished in 3 years and is now a licensed M.D. practicing in Mamaroneck, New York.

He is an old friend of mine and we talk frequently.



http://www.mendosa.com/history.htm

Karen

[lgvincent]

This is something I've considered trying but I do worry about spilling protein in the urine, which I've been doing for a while now. I'm under the impression that protein can damage the kidneys and it would be best if I tried to avoid them. If I try to avoid carbohydrates and protein, I'd only have fats left. I guess I could carry a few sticks of butter with me to snack on but that doesn't sound too tasty.

[lilly]

you might find the info in this article helpful with regards to protein and low carb.http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org/site/admin/pdf/Manninen%20SNRJ%201-1-45-51-2004.pdf

[TAutry]

LG,

I read a book recently that encouraged increasing the amount of protein in the daily diet. They addressed the potential kidney damage issue by encouraging the drinking of more water. I have increased my protein and my water intake, so far I haven't had any difficulties.

Travis

[lilly]

you can check out this site on kidneys and low carb too.One thing though,low carb isn,t high protein,its high fat,if you increase the protein by too much,causing an excess for your needs,then some of it will be converted to glucose by the liver (58%) and this will put up bgs,not as high a spike as carbs,but it will cause an overall rise.Fat doesn,t cause this to happen.

http://www.theomnivore.com/Low%20Carb%20Benefits%20Kidney%20Patients.html

[Deager]

Hi all,

Well, my post on the 22nd here told you that Jack was down to 80 carbs a day.

Now, one week later he is ready to make the plunge down to 40 or less. I thought between 60-80 was doing pretty good for someone who was used to 150-200 per day. But, he informed me tonight that his bg tests are making him nuts. I was shocked because his tests have been absolutely excellent!! Well, it seems that he had a 171 a couple of days ago and today he had a 167 and he said he couldn't stand it. He wanted ALL of them down around 100. This from a guy who normally tested in the high 200's to low 400's!!!!!! I told him that even the 171 was below ADA standards (speaking of the 2 hours after eating one....which his 171 was) but he said that he never would have believed he would EVER have normal tests and now he can't stand not to. What a riot. I absolutely love it. I made him a great, big, tasty dinner tonight that was 10 carbs, so I know this is do-able.

He had to go in for jury duty today (he didn't get picked tho...yahoo...since he doctor's appts. everyday the next 3 days) and took Dr. B's book with him to re-read some stuff and is anxious to try the doc's 'cheese puff' 'bread'. Wow, I have to tell you. This is the first time in 25+ years that he hasn't just 'gone along' but is actively helping me with his diabetes. It is a real thrill.

Off topic....does anyone here like spagetti squash? I used it instead of regular pasta for spagetti last night and wow....was it delicious!!! It really does come out like spagetti!!

Diane

[hermitladee]

You might do a check and see if those two higher reading had anything to do with an illness, infection, stress or the like. When my husband had what he thought was minor back pain, his number went up higher than usual.

[KLD]

I'm just thrilled that Jack's doing so well, Diane. It's often hard for people to get started on this way of eating, but once they do, after giving their body a few days to adjust to the lower blood sugars, most people feel so much better that they wouldn't dream of going back to eating the way they used to. It sounds as though Jack has reached that stage. It will be most interesting to see what his next A1C is.

Karen

[Deager]

Hi Karen,

Actually, he had one this week and it was 6.1....down from 7.3 two months ago. Pretty cool. There were a lot of very high highs and very low lows during one of those months, so I suspect his actual A1C is lower.

Tonight I told him his carbs for dinner would be 24 and he asked if I couldn't get it lower. AAAAHHHHH!!!!!! So I took of the non-fat low sodium cottage cheese and got it down to 17. He said he was happy with that. If he hadn't had such a large portion of Salmon I would be afraid he is starving....but he isn't.

Hermitladee....Hi! We did think about other causes and if they had happened even one day later I might have guessed stress because he went to the doc yesterday who ordered him to wear a heart monitor, go back Friday for an echocardiagram and go back next week for a two day cardiolite test. That would definitely stressed him out, but his tests all day yesterday and last night were normal. He doesn't seem to be coming down with anything....anyway we ran thru the whole litany of those that could have brought them up and discounted all of them. Also, they were only those two readings with all others over that week normal. Thanks for thinking about those things.

I spend so much less time on meal planning and cooking now that I can spend more time online. I love it!

Diane

[KLD]

That's great new, Diane. Tell him congratulations from me!

Karen

[Alaska]

Ok...so call me uninformed
but if there isn't a weight problem whats the big ta dew about a low carb diet?
My A1C's are in the low 6's and my weight is always the same yet I eat a high carbs........have I missed out on something?

[KLD]

You may just be one of the lucky ones - many people can't keep their blood sugars in anything like a normal range while eating a high carb diet. It depends, too, on how low you want to keep your A1C; I want to keep my blood sugar perfectly normal - not just "good for a diabetic" and I do that by eating low carb. My last A1C was 5.2. If you and your medical team are happy with low 6's, then you obviously don't have to worry about a low carb diet for the time being.

Karen


Karen

[Harold]

Originally posted by Alaska
Ok...so call me uninformed
but if there isn't a weight problem whats the big ta dew about a low carb diet?
My A1C's are in the low 6's and my weight is always the same yet I eat a high carbs........have I missed out on something?

Your lean, in control, and fairly young, at least from my perspective, so it's as Karen said "you obviously don't have to worry about a low carb diet for the time being." The experts seem to have, in their infinite wisdom, ignored that as people age their bodies process foods, especially carbs, differently. The problem lies with the standard diet proportions fit all view. So acting on the experts advice we don't change our eating habits and end up with the dredded middle age spread. Which makes us more susceptible to insulin resistance and the whole enchilada of health problems. A person with a genetic predisposition to diabetes doesn't have to become obese to develope diabetes, all it takes is a few pounds and enough time or more pounds and less time. So as you age keep an eye out on your weight, but that is not enough. When you find your clothes feel like they are getting tighter it's time to revaluate your eating habits, and indications are that cutting back on carbs is a good place to start.

Personally I don't care for the low carb label because it propagates the one diet fits all that seems to permeate our thinking. Since carbs are the main source of energy we consume, it only makes sense that as we age our energy requirments decrease and so should our intake of carbs.

[hermitladee]

For quite a few diabetics, like my husband, a lower carb diet is important since it keeps them off of prescription meds. Yes, it would be easier for a lean diabetic to inject insulin and eat more carbs than it is to watch your carb intake. But for some people managing their condition without injecting or using oral meds is important.

My husband feels that the longer he can manage his diabetes without the use of oral drugs the better. Drugs such as Amaryl usually only work for 6-12 months before additional drugs must be used. This is due to beta cell burnout. Metformin is not rec in people with heart problems and he has a stent. And all the oral drugs force your liver to filter them out and the healthier he keeps his liver the better.

So, these are just some of the reasons people go on a low carb diet. Yes, insulin would be an option for the lean diabetic as weight gain would not be an issue, and insulin is a safe alternative. But, for some, having daily multiple injections or having a pump attached is not their first choice.

To each his own.

[Alaska]

Ok gang....thanks so much for clearing that up. I've been diabetic now using insulin 33 years. I've been lucky as I've only gained 5 pounds since high school and that was when I hit 40 or there abouts. Your probably right though......the older I get the less carbs I should take in so I don't gain any weight.....

Dave

[HeatherP]

Must be all that cold weather.................

[Alaska]

Naw, I use to live in the Bay Area too Heather :P
San Mateo

[gettingby]

Originally posted by Alaska
Ok gang....thanks so much for clearing that up. I've been diabetic now using insulin 33 years. I've been lucky as I've only gained 5 pounds since high school and that was when I hit 40 or there abouts. Your probably right though......the older I get the less carbs I should take in so I don't gain any weight.....

Dave
40? Wow you have aged wonderfully.
Cin:-

[HeatherP]

Really? That's about 5 minutes away from where I am!:D

[KLD]

I want to point out that I said if Alaska is satisfied with an A1C in the 6's he doesn't have to worry about a low carb diet for the time being. My personal opinion is that by eating this way from the time of diagnosis, people with type 2 diabetes can avoid the beta cell burnout that many people consider inevitable and which gives type 2 diabetes its reputation as a progressive disease. Unfortunately, I didn't know about this way of managing diabetes until several years after diagnosis, and had developed several complications by that time, most of which have reversed in the two years I've been eating this way.

Personally I don't care for the low carb label because it propagates the one diet fits all that seems to permeate our thinking.
What if it's true that one diet fits all when it comes to diabetes? I'm not saying it is, but I'm not convinced it isn't, either. My endocronologist believes that all diabetics should be eating a low carb diet. I certainly understand that people don't want to blindly follow something that they worry might be a "fad diet," but surely diabetics, with so much to lose if they're wrong, should keep an eye on the research and keep an open mind.

I know Harold - if we both live to be 100, we're never going to agree on this!

Karen

[Deager]

Alaska,

From Jack's perspective, even tho he doesn't need to lose weight and could even gain some, his blood sugars were all over the place. He has been considered a 'brittle' diabetic for many of his 38 years as a T1, and it didn't seem to matter how much insulin he injected. He would inject more and more insulin and still have high highs and then crash to the ground. It was no way to live. Even after he got his pump, he had highs. It was his endo that suggested he follow a low carb diet such as the South Beach Diet and his internal medicine doc that actually told him to take in 80 or less. His internal medicine doc is not a diabetic and is built just like my husband.....5'7" and 135 lbs. When I complained that 80 carbs seemed a bit unreasonable, he told us that he takes in 60-70 carbs a day. So, I gave it a try and now we are sold. Even tho Jack is 54, his energy level hasn't decreased altho because his hands are so bad he doesn't do the same activities as he used to, and the low carb meals hasn't left him weak or tired. I think he is eating healthier than ever and he is completely happy with his meals and tells me he is never still hungry after eating. He is actually down to about 35 carbs a day and has had almost 100% normal blood sugars. I use a lot of the recipes here on the forum and also recipes in the South Beach Diet Cookbook. They are all pretty yummy. I also use some from Diabetes Solutions and Jack especially likes the 'cheese puff' bread.

So the low carb way was the way for Jack to go. Not for everyone, I know, but if you have highs and you can't seem to get them down by any other means, what have you got to lose?

Diane

[HeatherP]

Absolutely, Karen. We're all different and we all have different ways of managing our disease. While I don't take as drastic a low carb approach as you, I do eat a reduced-carb diet. I think it's also important that we take into account what each of us is capable of achieving. Some can get by on a low carb approach and others have a more difficult time of it.


as the French say, "viva la difference"!

[Harold]

Originally posted by KLD
I know Harold - if we both live to be 100, we're never going to agree on this!

Karen

That's because you call what you eat low carb and I call it right carb for your age and physical activity. I will be there in a few years and it will not be my first experience with those carb levels. I did no/low carbs in my twenties and know how it made me feel after several months.

[lilly]

hi Harold,do you think that only sedendary old people can live happily on 30cgs a day?..i ask because you're post to Karen implies that way of thinking.I can assure you this is not true.I may not be in my 20's anymore,i'm 46 but i have a very active lifestyle on 30cgs a day,i walk 8 to 10 miles a day,i look after 2 kids of 2 and 4 and have done since they were 6 weeks old,i work hard,play hard and i'm usually on the go from 6am and its past 8pm when i get a sit down.My husband low carbs (100 grams a day) and hes a marathon runner,my daughter low carbs (shes 26 on 40cgs a day)and she runs threee times a week and goes to the gym 3 times a week,as well as having 2 young kids and a full time job.I don't think age or lifestyle makes a difference,people half my age on 300cgs a day would have a hard time keeping up with me....and we all have been at this for over 4 years.

[hermitladee]

Lilly, just as you said, you are active on 30 carbs and do wonderfully, and your husband is on 100 carbs and is very active ... each person has their own level that is appropriate. My husband is also on 100 carbs, but if he were on a lower amount, I'm not sure he could keep his current level of activity. We all are different sizes, with men usually being larger, so therefore it stands to reason that most, but not all, men need a higher energy intake if they are to remain active.

I do realize that energy comes in the form of carbs, protein and fat. So, if you reduce one, you can increase the other and still get the amount of energy you need. But some people due to their own personal health conditions must tailor their diet according to their needs. For example, a person with kidney trouble must watch protein, but a person with healthy kidneys doesn't need to worry (*according to some studies). There are many factors involved in determing your own proper diet.

I don't know how many carbs (or even if he counts carbs) Harold is consuming, but if his bs levels and overall health are fine, I'm sure he is consuming the amount he needs at this time. Some people have a pancreas that is functioning better than others and can have a diet with more carbs, others cannot. Some people wish to take oral meds or insulin early in their diagnosis, which will allow them to eat more carbs, others - like my husband - wish to control his by diet on the theory this will prevent or delay other complications. Only the individual who has access to all their lab reports can make an informed decision as to what diet is best for them.

There is no one way to combat this illness as we are all different. And I think that the difference between Karen and Harold is not their inability to see each other's accomplishments in controlling their disease in their own way... But rather their personal and individual approaches based on their own needs is the difference. And there is no harm in that. Each are doing fine, and it's nice to see people that have such good success. Including you Lilly!! :D

[lilly]

thats true Crystal,we have to set our own ratios but some of us can live quite happily on 30cgs a day and have a very active life,we don,t have to be old or sedendary to only have that amount.Infact,Karen has more carb grams than me and i know she won,t mind me saying she doesn,t exercise much and is a bit older.I just don,t want people to think that low carb is only for the older and less active ones as its not,the carb amounts are an individual thing,based on diabetes control and not age.What suits one,may not suit another but its certainly possible to be active on 30cgs,as well as 100.

[hermitladee]

Did you just call Karen old and lazy?:p :p :p :eek:

[KLD]

She did, but that's okay - I am old and lazy, although I prefer "mature and relaxed."

Karen

[lilly]

eeeek!...i did not,i would'nt dare:D ....mature and relaxed,yes,thats what i meant:whistling

[Harold]

No, Lilly that was not what I was implying. One thing I did notice when I was eating low carbs in my twenties was an increase in the time it took for wounds to heal. Which I speculated was because I was using to much of the protiens and fats for energy instead of celluar repair. It did not help that I did not eat evey day either.

[KLD]

My experience has been the very opposite, Harold. One of the things I was worried about when my blood sugars were running high was how long it took for cuts to heal. Since I started low carbing and keeping my blood sugars normal, they heal much more quickly.

In fact, I had some very serious heart surgery about eight months before I was diagnosed with diabetes, and had a terrible time recovering. One of the many problems was trouble getting the incision to heal. Stupidly, not one of my medical team thought to check for diabetes, but I feel certain that I had it then and that's why I wasn't healing properly.

Karen

[lilly]

i heal fine too Harold.I've had both hands operated on for carpel tunnel syndrome,(as well as having a few tattoo's done) and my wounds healed very quickly,infact,the surgeon that operated on me warned me that the cuts might not heal well as i was 'diabetic',he was wrong,my hands etc healed in no time.Although i had the op's while low carbing,i was dx'ed with CTS b4 then,just incase lc gets the blame for my hands,in the UK,low carb seems to get the blame for every condition known to man,lol.

[Harold]

Karen, That's what I would expect when one has diabetes. High bg's do slow down healing and cause complications. However I did not have diabetes then and could not eat enough protien to cover my energy requirments and normal body maintinence, but then I was burning 3000 to 4000 calories a day on average.

[KLD]

That can certainly happen if people are eating both low carb and low fat. Is that what you were doing? As I've said before, I get most of my energy from fats and don't restrict them at all (except, of course, for trans fats.)

Karen

[Joss]

Hi, I am new here. I am also a member of the Bernstein Forum who has been on the Low Carb eating plan for several months now. I have read parts of the Bernstein book online and found it very helpful. I think for me, the low carb regime day after day, has provided more energy, kept me more alert mentally and restored my sense of good health which was missing previously.

There are several excellent authors whose work has been helpful to me - I read Dr Mercola's free on-line newsletter and have a copy of Englishman Barry Groves book 'Eat Fat Get Thin' which I found excellent. Dr Mercola has interesting perspectives on who should eat what amount of proteins, carbs etc, and he maintains there are three basic types of human metabalism that determine what the individual should eat. I guess for me, Barry Groves book which I read first, persuaded me it was not foolish to eat high protein/high fat food and low, low carbs, and from there I just kept on reading and that led me to the Bernstein site.

My doctor recommended that eating low carbs would assist me with diabetes and he is very pleased with my recent A1c of 6.5 When I first decided to try this way of eating, I decided to give it three months and if I did not get results, to give it up again. To my great surprise, I started getting results within a few days. So after several months, I find myself pretty much committed to it. Mind you, the last week I have been having an apple each day - after having no fruit for 6 months - I was starting to miss it! And boy does it taste great!!! And yes, my BG readings are a little higher as a result!

Generally I am well satisfied with the principles taught by Dr Bernstein and his fellow travellers. I think many people who are for example, vegetarian, would find the high protein food regime too hard though. Personally, I love meat and fish. Each to his own, I guess. I think its what works best for the individual. And in the end, it is driven by the medical need to bring those BG levels down. We all do the best we can....

[Harold]

No, I was not on a low fat diet. Even though I prefer my red meat to the very lean, a matter of taste, fats from milk, other meat sources, and nuts I ate in abundance. In hindsight I do suspect part of the problem may have been due to a problem with a gall bladder and my ability to digest large quantities of fats. Even today after having the gb removed eating too much fat can leave my digestive system distressed.

[Joss]

I am another one who has benefited from the low carb diet, now into the 8th month since I switched to it. I use the word 'diet' to mean what I put in my mouth, no other meaning. I noticed a huge increase in energy very quickly, and no longer needed day time naps. My brain worked a lot better too, and my memory returned. I have just felt better and better as the months have gone on, and I feel ready to return to work. It is a year since I was diagnosed with T2 and I can't believe how much better I feel. The last week I have upped my carbs a bit, to include an apple each day, after 6-7 months of no fruit at all. I wanted them so ate them! They have put my BG up a wee bit, but not much. I find the recipe section on the Dr Bernstein forum to be hugely helpful, and it was a great lift to my spirits when I found that website, and realised I could still eat some yummy things in spite of diabetes. I am quite stable now with a A!c of 6.5 (120) which I am really happy about. No drugs for diabetes, and touch wood I won't need them. My doctor put me onto the low carbing and has been supportive from the start. At the start I didn't believe him, and did a lot of reading before I made the change. He is really happy with my progress and delighted that I do not need any medication. I recently had the eye test, the drops and the photographs that 'read' damage behind the eyes - and my eyes have no damage at all. So I am very lucky to have got control so quickly and I am just thankful that my doctor is knowedgable, up to date with the research and supportive of his patients trying out new ideas. The high fat, animal protein made me queasy for the first week, but I preservered and after about 10 days that queasy feeling went away. It's something to do with the liver, I think.