The Chances Of Complications!

[gobbly2100]

Hey all,

I have really been wondering about what sort of percentage of diabetics actually end up with complications that affect their life such as blindness, loss of limbs and that kinda thing.

Is there a good number of diabetics that live to a dear old age and die without ever having any real complications?

When I read about all the eye troubles and stuff people have (Obviously it is a forum where people come to talk specificaly about stuff like that) it feels scary to think about.

[RobiJo]

The better you take care of yourself and stay on top of things (including doctor appointments) the lower your chances. It doesn't really matter what the percentages are. Stay active, eat right, and test test test.

I am not blind by any means...but my eyes have been through the ringer and back. I have no one to blame but myself.

There are many on this forum who have lived a long time with D. Many who make my 23 years with D seem very very young.

[Lizzy]

I for one feel VERY fortunate that I do not have any bad complications. I have been Type 1 for 43 years and even with many many highs and lows and having not always taking the best care of my diabetes I have luckily avoided the most terrible complications. I do have some neuropathy controlled by taking Neurontin. I have heard that not all diabetics will suffer from complications and I guess I am one of them. Then I have heard of people that have had diabetes for 10 or so years and they are suffering terrible comlications.

[Lizzy]

RobiJo, did you go to the ADA EXPO in Novi, MI yesterday? I went and thought it was great.

[ant hill]

I have had a delayed diagnosis where i was so thin even mussel tissue was a issue. Now 36 years later have had a stroke and that was 18 months ago now and blind in my right eye of bleeding. So if i have had the diagnosis earlier and good control i would have not had this complications.

[BlueSky]

.... Is there a good number of diabetics that live to a dear old age and die without ever having any real complications?....

According to my my endo, if you can make it through the first twenty years without serious complications, the good-control habit has been established. And he chances are that serious complications won't be an issue. You will die from something else. Probably heart disease or cancer ...

[SharpTail]

Most of the advice you will get is to try to achieve consistently good control. Since there is so much room for human error it will never be perfect, but you will not likely need absolute perfection to avoid serious complications. I was diagnosed at age 29 in 1981 (when insulin therapy was pretty primitive by today's standards) and because of that I may have had an advantage in taking control of the situation right away. Recently I went through extensive tests of my health to be screened into a clinical trial for inhaled Technosphere Insulin. Fortunately there were no problems discovered and I am likely reaping the benefits of maintaining a good focus on my blood sugar levels for many years. I still keep my fingers crossed everytime I visit my doctor. Pat

[DeusXM]

The problem is that there aren't really any meaningful stats you can use for this. The majority of complications take several years, if not decades, to manifest themselves. And you simply can't compare people with diabetes now with people with diabetes from 20-30 years ago.

It might be that say, 60% of people with diabetes develop some sort of problem after 30 years. But those people have spent the vast majority of those years without BG monitors and MDI/pumps. There is also far greater understanding now of how diabetes works and how best to manage it. As recently as 10 years ago (and in the case of Diabetes UK, still now), the right way to manage diabetes was to base every single meal on starch carbs and make sure you stuffed yourself full of bread and potatoes at every possible opportunity so you didn't go hypo.

This advice is now not only outdated but also so dangerous it would be hilarious if it wasn't still treated as gospel. But the point is, even if there's a high rate of complications amongst people with diabetes in general, it doesn't follow that you will be part of that statistic because you overall have a better range of options to prevent complications.

There's also an element of genetic make-up too. Some people have poorly controlled diabetes and yet seem to be pretty near bulletproof, yet some people micromanage their diabetes and yet seem to fall apart in a decade. Why, no-one knows. Although it has been found that many people with diabetes seem to suffer from Vitamin B deficiencies, which may or may not play a role. Myself, I'm hedging my bets and now take B complex.

In other words, your personal risk of complications is entirely down to you, and there aren't any statistics you can use to suggest what is more likely. You could probably make educated guesses as to what complications are more likely to happen if you developed them, but not whether or not you are likely to develop them.

[Emm]

Ditto what Deus said - my words exactly, except the Vit B thing which I hadn't heard of til now :D I guess my bases are partially covered as I take a multi-vit (which is heavy on the B's) once or twice a week. We'll never really know if what we do is right or wrong since every study contridicts another one, every doctor has a different idea, and every diabetic is different too!

I certainly don't trust any statistics on D since control in the past was nothing like it is now, and as Deus said, we can't rely on any info that was taken from the days without BG meters and good insulins.

It can only get better from here... We have better tools available to us and more knowledge to go on. If only the doctors would update their information it would help so many more people, which in turn would help even more as the stats would improve and not scare so many people off! [how many times have we heard "I was diagnosed and saw it as a death sentence after reading about the complications so I didn't look after myself for the first 10 years" or words to that effect, hmm?]

[Wildbill]

One of the problems that we know about is that some functions never can be normal regardless of the level of control.

As an example, there are white blood cells called polymorphonuclear leukocytes that never regain normal function even with very tight Bg control. That probably means that no matter how hard we try, we can't achieve a normal biological state and there are going to be problems because of that, eventually.

[DanG]

Although it has been found that many people with diabetes seem to suffer from Vitamin B deficiencies, which may or may not play a role. Myself, I'm hedging my bets and now take B complex.

I have been doing B vitamins for years.
But just recently have been doing my B vitamins as brewers yeast powder in a concoction of vinegar & honey with cayenne and brewers yeast powder mixed in. Quite the tasty concoction first thing each morning, but I am convinced that the whole B vitamin in brewers yeast which includes multitudinous enzymes and amino acids is more healthy. This brewers yeast powder produced for Lewis Labs in eastern europe and sold at most health food stores in america. I switched from vitamin B pills to brewers yeast because I seem to feel that it might be more easily assimilated into the body as functional nutrients.

[DeusXM]

Meh, you can also find various B vitamins in beer and Marmite. Might not be ideal for breakfast but makes for a great supper.

[KickStart101]

Meh, you can also find various B vitamins in beer and Marmite. Might not be ideal for breakfast but makes for a great supper.

:D :rolleyes: There's these useless items also
if you're outta beer.



Which foods are rich in vitamin B?
• whole grains, such as wheat and oats
• fish and seafood
• poultry and meats
• eggs
• dairy products, like milk and yogurt
• leafy green vegetables
• beans and peas

[ant hill]

Meh, you can also find various B vitamins in beer and Marmite. Might not be ideal for breakfast but makes for a great supper.

So are you saying that beer is good for you? As I am thinking of getting slab of stubbies from coopers.http://www.coopers.com.au/images/legal-bigPic.jpg

[marked]

I do not think fear of complications is a sustainable motivator for tight control. Fear of complications brings out the diabetes police big time.The if "I had been a better diabetic, I wouldn't be having complications,so take heed." is a victim mentality and is to be seen for what it is and dismissed.
Good control can only be its own reward.
The ticking time bomb of complications will be as fate determines it to be. This disease is to be dealt with as the recovering alcoholic deals with the moment without drinking. The only thing that matters and is under my control is my current blood sugar. Stay in the present. Complications are a possibilty to be faced in the present not in the future.
Mark

[xMenace]

Forty two!

HHGTTG.

[owlyn]

My non-scientific observation is that there seems to be two types of diabetics who tend to get complications: Uncontrolled type 2s (most type 1s have acceptable control because it is easier to maintain in type 1s), and T1s who get it in early childhood (probably an issue because they get to have it the longest). It's hard to say, though, because of advances in care and awareness in the last 10-15 years. Also, my endo has observed (again, not scientific), that those who show no complications after 10 years tend to not have complications (assuming control remains good).

[REDLAN]

I do not think fear of complications is a sustainable motivator for tight control. Fear of complications brings out the diabetes police big time.The if "I had been a better diabetic, I wouldn't be having complications,so take heed." is a victim mentality and is to be seen for what it is and dismissed.
Good control can only be its own reward.
The ticking time bomb of complications will be as fate determines it to be. This disease is to be dealt with as the recovering alcoholic deals with the moment without drinking. The only thing that matters and is under my control is my current blood sugar. Stay in the present. Complications are a possibilty to be faced in the present not in the future.
Mark

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this whole sentiment.

The point of good control is not that it will lower my risk of complications in some distant future, but that it makes me feel better today, and tomorrow, and next week.

And having been one of those who didn't bother testing, and ran an A1c of around 10% for years. Now I'm keeping my average BG under 8 mmol (144), I certainly feel fitter, healthier, and generally happier for being in better control.

And just as a for instance I've gone from having one of the worst sickness records, to having one of the best.

this book is worth a read

Amazon.co.uk: Stumbling on Happiness: Books: Daniel Gilbert (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stumbling-Happiness-Daniel-Gilbert/dp/0007183135/ref=sr_1_1/202-5258068-5561410?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190204906&sr=1-1)

stumbling on happiness by daniel gilbert - it's about why we are often wrong about how we will feel about future events, and why we are so bad at making plans.

Typically we usually overestimate how happy/unhappy we will feel about a particular event - and the more significant the event, the more wrong we usually are.

when we experience a traumatic event we tend to rationalise these events to try and see some positive in them, so making them seem less traumatic.

so you might be frightened an anxious now, but the chances are you will actually feel differently, if you do experience such an event.

[BlueSky]

... The point of good control is not that it will lower my risk of complications in some distant future, but that it makes me feel better today, and tomorrow, and next week ....
Yeah ... avoiding complications is a very negative concept. And negative motivators are, at best, weak. If you think about them too much, they are often depressing. It is a bit like using, as a motivator for business success, fear of being poor. It is not quite the kind of inspirational burning desire that drives us on to great things. I also believe that the only way to stay positive about whatever is going on is to live in the present. In other words, focusing on doing whatever you are doing, really well. Not because of some long term outcome, but because of how it makes us feel now. Controlling blood glucose levels is a case in point ...

[Jan B]

Very good thread. Excellent. Fear is not a good motivator for me. I research things to death, but I don't like researching diabetes related things. Either I haven't faced it after all these years, or I don't appreciate any of the info I read. I've found suggestions of books I could deal better with on this forum.

My "complications" include heart disease. That's mostly it, but I smoked for years on and off. I also have arthritis, which runs rampant in my family. I've always been very active. I have taken better care of myself than most diabetics I know. I lost my only child ("diabetic mother" written on medical transfer) 23 yrs. ago. Nothing sets me off worse than statements like . . . if you keep perfect control, nothing bad will happen. It was just a fact that back then 20,000 "heart babies" were born every year -- I'll never know if it was "my fault", but I do know I attempted excellent control, and had it most the time I was pregnant.