Online article: "For Some, Diabetes Care worse than Illness Itself"

[Goldrun]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20070928/hl_hsn/forsomediabetescareworsethanillnessitself

just wondering what folks on this forum think about this. I would not want to give up 8 of 10 years of healthy life to live without treatment (though I suppose technically I couldn't live that long without treatment).

This quote blew me away:
As reported in the October issue of Diabetes Care, some patients said the inconvenience and discomfort of having to take numerous medications each day, carefully monitoring their diet, and getting the required amounts of exercise had a major impact on their quality of life. ....what kills me, is the conclusion is that the 'inconvenience and discomfort' of treatment contributes to a poorer quality of life ?!?!?!:eek:

I'm just curious how others react to this idea? And, the notion of the potential care-giver (I suppose the partner/spouse of a diabetic) looking at treatments to staunch significant long term disabilities and care requirements versus the person with diabetes who looks at the immediate irritation/inconvenience of treatment and pretends the long term implications don't matter. Seems really adversarial to me.

[notme]

I guess I have had diabetes so long that my care and thought process is just part of me and what I have to do. If you chose to eat and not exercise and ignore diabetes, the chances are you will pay for your decision later.

I also went through a few years of whining and complaining. At the time of my diagnosis, there were no pumps available to the general public. NPH and R were the newest latest and greatest insulins and there was no such thing as carb counting. Once I got a regime that made sense (that did not include eating the same foods daily and timing peaking insulin), the whining stopped and I got a plan. Ok...I still whine sometimes. But it isn't a way of life anymore.

Nobody cares as much as you do about your health. Your doctor can give you a plan, your family can give you encouragement and DF can give you ideas. But you are the only one that can make you do what you need to do to stay healthy. At the end of the day, everyone goes home and you live with your choices.

[princesslinda]

I am stunned by this article. To think that ANYONE would willingly give up 8-10 years of life in order not to have to swallow a few pills, stick their fingers, eat healthier and move around a bit more is incomprehensible to me! I LOVE LIFE. If, in order to live, I have to adjust my lifestyle, so be it.

That being said, my mom was of that "quality over quantity" mentality. She lived her life as if she didn't have diabetes...until things caught up with her. Unfortunately for her, she didn't just die 8-10 years early...she died at 54 after about 10 years of suffering through the complications brought on by uncontrolled blood sugars...not a lot of "quality" when you can't see, can't walk, have a bad heart and failing kidneys.
Not to mention what all this does to the family who gets to watch all this happen and are helpless to stop it.

Sorry if I sound bitter...I see diabetes from the other end of the spectrum....as an opportunity to live a healthier life and take responsibility for your health. I think life is to be lived and enjoyed. I have no time for that mentality....living through it once was enough!

[Goldrun]

Linda, I definitely see your point. My mom had lung cancer..she was a chronic smoker from her teen years. And in her defense, I don't think she really got the health implications since smoking was so glamorous in the 50's 60's and 70's. But still...she disbelieved the doctors and the last year and a half was very difficult in terms of caregiving. (Mind you, I would give my eye teeth just to be able to spend another day with my mom and don't regret or begrudge the caregiving in any way)....but, having said that, I wouldn't want to knowingly ignore my diabetes and create a similar situation for my children or spouse. That just seems so tremendously selfish.

[MJB]

I think that idea is bullfeathers. :T

[Alice]

I think the people who whine have no idea what pain & suffering with the alternative is like. Most people who are feeling well enough to complain aren't in the bad shape they will see in the future.

Those going through dialysis (if they haven't died from a heart attack or stroke) probably wish for the simple days of "only" testing, injecting & counting carbs.

I get tired of selfish whining when many other people have it much worse. I haven't felt "inconvenienced" once in 41 years.

I was ticked off once in 4th grade, but it had nothing to do with me...my best friend's grandmother told me I couldn't spend the night with her "because I was diabetic". That's the only time I've been completely disgusted...and that wasn't at the disease...it was at the stupidity of others. I still feel the same today.

[Alice]

I also noted that this was a survey of Type II people. At least for once they clarified the difference in a survey.

Type II's spend a great deal of time on carb control, so this may sway the results. Yet, the Type I's are on injectons/pump (yes, some II's as well)...I think this is an example of how little "inconvenience" taking insulin is for more people...once you get the basics down.

You'd think it's be the other way around.

[Who?]

Stupidity is truly incurable!

If these folks think taking care of themselves it too much trouble, what will they do after a stroke, or if they go blind? How will they manage having no feet, or end-stage kidney disease with two or three dialysis sessions per week?

[shockme]

i've been taking meds for one thing or another since childhood. so- the concept of taking meds is like breathing to me....let's see-testing [owww!], insulin [owww!] ,pills,exercise,dr. visits VERSUS blindness,stroke,heart attack,amputation [MEGA OWWWWW!!!!].....gee-kinda think it's a no brainer.....i think those people were literally no brainers......:D trish

[Alice]

Who writes this stuff anyway? This is why diabetics get such grief from the general public. Too me, the negative public opinions are what are the biggest pain about being diabetic. Not the disease, itself.

[parrotletzoo]

Rediculous! Sorry, if I offend but **** grow up and take your stinking medication! Popping pills, eating like a grown up and getting a little exercise can't so horrible that it ruins your quality of life. Try kidney disease, blindness,neuropathy, those will ruin quality of life and that is what you set yourself up for if you don't take care of yourself now.

Time for a reality check and maybe a slap in the face for some people if they think they're only giving up 8-10years of life because ****, whats life if you have complications years before death from being stupid?

For some people diabetes isn't the chronic illness, stupidity and the ever present "ooh poor me" attitude is.

[mho357]

Perhaps the person who wrote the piece misunderstood the study?

"From 12 percent to 50 percent of patients interviewed said they were willing to give up 8 of 10 years of life in perfect health to avoid a life with diabetes complications, but between 10 percent and 18 percent of patients said they were willing to give up 8 of 10 years of healthy life to avoid life with treatments."

It almost sounds to me like the participants were asked if they would trade 8-10 years of their lives to not have diabetes. That's not the same as risking complications just so you don't have to try to manage the disease.

Regardless, the story is misleading and I hope that it isn't true as written.

Mark

[Goldrun]

Mark, I agree.....it is awkwardly worded, but this quote is pretty clear:

"Some patients, if you judge by their behavior, would rather be well on the road to future blindness, kidney failure or amputations than work hard now at their diabetes," Philipson said.

I think the people on this site by virtue of even being here, really take their health and diabetes management seriously...but we all know folks who will have a donut and not think twice (or act like they don't anyway). I have an uncle who takes meds, but never checks his bg. It's absolutely mindboggling to me.

[REDLAN]

From 12 percent to 50 percent of patients interviewed said they were willing to give up 8 of 10 years of life in perfect health to avoid a life with diabetes complications, but between 10 percent and 18 percent of patients said they were willing to give up 8 of 10 years of healthy life to avoid life with treatments.

this statement is confusing - the patients interviewed all had type 2 diabetes, therefore they already were not in perfect health - ergo they could not forego 8 to 10 years of perfect health because they did not have it in the first place.

the statement only makes sense if you asked the study group the following questions...

1) how many years of perfect health would you be prepared to give up to avoid complications?

2) how many years of perfect health would you be prepared to give up to avoid treatments.

(although how they came up with ranges 12-50% and 10-18% mystifies me)

Read in this light, it is clear that people are more frightened of the consequences of complications than the consequences of treatment.

However it is a serious question.

Are the effects of complications worse than the effects of treatments?

Note that drug therapies come with side effects, and generally the older you are, the greater the potential for serious side effects, plus the spectre of drug interactions - which can complicate treatment and may necessitate further drugs to alleviate the side effects.

for instance - side effects of statins - include memory loss, muscle cramps, and fatigue. The side effects of ACE inhibitors include fatigue, orthostatic hypotension, hypotension, dry cough, muscle cramps

Note also that treatments only reduce the risk of complications, they do not eliminate the risk - for the individual this actually means that treatment will delay the onset of complications, it is very unlikely that it will eliminate the risk completely.

place yourself in the position of someone taking their medication experiencing the side effects of the medication, AND experiencing complications of diabetes.

you may all be interested to read this article - it is a review of review articles based on the UKPDS (United Kingdom prospective diabetes study) - this is a large study 5,000 patients followed for over 20 years.

What happened to the valid POEMs? A survey of review articles on the treatment of type 2 diabetes -- Shaughnessy and Slawson 327 (7409): 266 -- BMJ (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/327/7409/266)

and while the UKPDS did show that good blood sugar control decreased the risks of complications. Many reviews of UKPDS failed to mention some rather important facts like...

1) tight blood glucose control had no effect on diabetes related or overall mortality - yep that's right, you won't live any longer if you have good blood sugar control.

2) diabetic patients with hypertension benefit more from good blood pressure control than good blood glucose control.

Hmmm, it's food for thought isn't it...

drug side effects may be worse then the effect of complications, good blood sugar control won't make you live any longer but may delay the onset of complications, so you could get drug side effects AND complications...

seems to me that there is a sizeable number of people who want to avoid complications, and there is also a small but significant number of people who don't like the treatments that diabetes entails.

I would suggest that we need

a) better treatments, with fewer more manageable side effects

b) treatments that are actually evidenced rather than myth/opinion base.

[ladytaz]

Didn't read the article, but probably don't even need to. I do whatever I can to have the quality AND quantity of life! Exercise, unfortunately, I cannot do as is necessary, BUT, I do just about every thing else possible! If it means taking yet another pill, bring it on!! When it got to the point of having to give myself multiple injections daily .... bring it on, I said!! The only thing I refuse to do, is eat stuff that I do not like. If I don't like the taste of it, if it make me feel like cr*p [can't believe I have to encrypt this word!!!], and it ain't gonna cure my diabetes, I ain't gonna eat/drink it!! Otherwise ... BRING IT ON!! ;) I've managed to live long enough to see my kids grow up, now, I'd like to live long enough to see my grandchildren born, and live long enough for them to know their Grammie and know that she's the AWESOMEST Grammie that EVER lived!! ;)

[Injecto]

I get tired of selfish whining when many other people have it much worse. I haven't felt "inconvenienced" once in 41 years.



Aren't we on a high horse. So glad you are able to see things from other's points of view... :rolleyes:

Being on a website where most people tend to take care of their diabetes better than the general public should not give everyone the right to assume they understand how difficult it is for "others" to not accept it so willingly. Let's be a "tad bit" more open minded people...geesh...

The article speaks loads of truth to many, dare I say the majority of Ds.

[painthorse]

Don't be too concerned with these folks over diabetes. BUT remember that they will be voting in the next president!

[mg_2204]

diabetes care worse than illness itself.

On a very personal note, I think having to deal with doctors is worse than the illness itself. But then again, I went from a 5 star diabetic follow-up in England to a... well some kind of... the truth is I don't even have a name for what I have over here, it sure doesn't qualify as a follow-up. I'd be better off using the walk-in clinic all the time.

[Alice]

Sorry this bothers you Injecto...but I really have seen too much suffering (and death) from others. So, yes, I can see the other side. But, I can only post my experience. And I will again state, in 41 years, I haven't felt "inconvenienced" as the article states.

[Dewey]

I get annoyed with articles like this, because in my point of view, it is negative (aka "Bad") press. I didn't read the article either, but have Never once felt "inconvenienced" by testing urine & BGs, taking shots, or pumping insulin in my 25 years with Diabetes. The only thing that does irritate me are the occasional high BGs. ;)

I agree with Alice that if the people in the article think they have it bad now, they ought to wait till they're on dialysis or going blind...Things could always be worse. What annoys me even more is that Diabetes IS a controllable disease....the da** balls are in most people's courts, if they'd just use the tools & do their best to control it. That's much more than I can say for Cancer patients who do NOT have the option to control their disease(s). :mad:

...I really have seen too much suffering (and death) from others. So, yes, I can see the other side. But, I can only post my experience. And I will again state, in 41 years, I haven't felt "inconvenienced" as the article states.
Agreed. Not everyone has the same experiences, so one person's post may not match another person's post or views. It is my belief that it's just as much a person's right to speak about the positives of living with D as it is for others to post about what they consider negative about living with Diabetes. Just my .02 cents, for what it's worth.

[Mich]

Interesting. Up to 50% of those asked would rather give up 8-10 years of their lives rather than live with treatment?

I personally think that's a terrible deal, but in deference to those who are still having trouble with acceptance--okay, I'll accept that. (NOT ME I might add--I'm one of the "kids" to whom diabetes care is like brushing teeth. And I'm no longer a kid.)

The problem with that uninformed choice is that you don't get to pick. As some have said, it may mean you get a long miserable bunch of years before your self-made appointment for the happy hunting ground...or you may not.

I've seen many a diabetic who got way shorter than me. I don't know why and neither did they. A few did nearly everything I did and woops! anyway. It is what it is. I don't even pretend to know how long I have, I'm just making the effort in the belief and hope that it will help for the long run. I'm having a great time with my life. I could list sixty-four pages of reasons to enjoy each day.

None of us really know what the master plan is, but why the heck make our time shorter ON PURPOSE??!!

And, be it noted that I didn't even touch on the comparison of terrible things you could deal with instead.

Parrotzoo, you said it well:
For some people diabetes isn't the chronic illness, stupidity and the ever present "ooh poor me" attitude is.

[Tropo]

Stupidity is truly incurable!

If these folks think taking care of themselves it too much trouble, what will they do after a stroke, or if they go blind? How will they manage having no feet, or end-stage kidney disease with two or three dialysis sessions per week?

You've got that right!

I know one very unhealthy guy who recently decided to throw away his glucometer. He was given it but I don't think he ever used it.

He's so far advanced that his toes turn black/blue. I don't suppose he's thought about having to get around with no feet or legs and going blind.

He's a fool. Maybe he thinks the end will come quickly when it does, but there's always a good chance it won't.

[FTW]

Reality is that somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-90% of T2 diabetics are non compliant when it comes to managing this disease. Thems the cold hard facts people.

[Alice]

So, here's a question...I'll toss out...

Do you all think that there is a percentage of Type 2's that could have avoided the disease in the beginning with "compliant" healthy lifestyle?

There are some that had healthy lifestyles prior to diabetes...I am thinking that they would be the ones to follow up after diagnosis with better care.

Those that were on the down-hill slide anyway...that's not going to change later...after diagnosis.

It's like a body-blueprint...personality tied to health-care.

I think the whole "borderline" labels put people into a more relaxed state when diagnosed. And, as the disease progresses, they have a hard time with the truth.

As a Type 1, I really have empathy for Type II's and their struggle with acceptance, fear & education. It seems to be a more drawn out problem...Type 1's are sent home with their insulin...that's it. Truthfully, I'm just now seeing both sides...I'll take Type 1 anyday.

But, I also blame the medical education community. "Eat healthy & exercise" isn't enough info for these people.

[Injecto]

Parrotzoo, you said it well:
For some people diabetes isn't the chronic illness, stupidity and the ever present "ooh poor me" attitude is.

:rolleyes:

It's great that YOU and other's accept the fact that you are not healthy, but to critisize those that don't, or have a terribly hard time at it? Well, that's a whole other thing. That kind of attitude completely negates the entire benefit of the DF, or at least what I once thought of the DF. I saw this as a place to get support (both direct and emotional), but comments like these reinforce that it's not the place to come and get support above and beyond the basic direct treatment.

[tanyatype1]

Hi Injecto. I agree with you, that people should try to be supportive, even if they can't "see" the other side. For the most part, I think people do empathise on some level. (I'm lucky that I've had an easier time of it than some, but I don't know why that is.) DF is still a good place to come for support.

[JediSurfer]

We must all remember that for everone of us whom have "good" control there are another 1000 who have not. With some people the treatment never works correctly.

[Dewey]

Folks, I don't think that Mich or Parrot meant anything toward the members here with their responses. Rather, I think you'll all find that they were simply responding to the article & those quoted in the article who'd rather give up potentially good years of living because they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" by a disease.

I do try to see the other side & empathize/sympathize, but there are instances where I will not back down (such as in the case of this article). It's impossible for Me to change My point of view on this, as I was raised differently than some & have dealt with loved ones who've had Cancer & other (what I consider to be far worse) diseases almost all my life. Though I'm more than happy to sympathize with those who have had a rough go of things & consider myself rather open-minded, there are some stances that I cannot & will not change.

Folks must also understand that many of us who are positive about Diabetes have had it for many years & were diagnosed at younger ages - which, in my mind, often makes it easier to cope. It is not my intention to sound harsh or uncaring. I'm just trying to shed some light on things here & hope that others will understand.

[princesslinda]

So, here's a question...I'll toss out...

Do you all think that there is a percentage of Type 2's that could have avoided the disease in the beginning with "compliant" healthy lifestyle?

There are some that had healthy lifestyles prior to diabetes...I am thinking that they would be the ones to follow up after diagnosis with better care.

Those that were on the down-hill slide anyway...that's not going to change later...after diagnosis.



I had a HORRIBLE lifestyle prior to diabetes...didn't exercise, very overweight, very bad dietary habits. That being said, I have a very strong family history of diabetes, so while I think my lifestyle contributed to my getting diabetes earlier...I still thnk I would have gotten it at some point. Actually, at the time, I didn't think about it period, just living my life as if I had forever and my good health was guaranteed.

However, in the year since my diagnosis, i'm definitely off the "downhill slide," doing all I can to be healthier and hopefully live longer with diabetes than I would have with my negligent lifestyle prior to diagnosis.

It all comes down to personal choice...I didn't chose to have this disease, but I choose daily to manage it to the best of my ability, as i've seen what not managing it will do...and it's not pretty.

[mho357]

So, here's a question...I'll toss out...

Do you all think that there is a percentage of Type 2's that could have avoided the disease in the beginning with "compliant" healthy lifestyle?

There are some that had healthy lifestyles prior to diabetes...I am thinking that they would be the ones to follow up after diagnosis with better care.
...

I assume that my years of excess caught up with me. I really don't think that I would be here if it weren't for my lifestyle choices. There is no history of D in my family.

I don't mind the testing, etc. but I do miss a lot of foods... I'm way more compliant than I thought that I would be when I was diagnosed.

Mark

[REDLAN]

Do you all think that there is a percentage of Type 2's that could have avoided the disease in the beginning with "compliant" healthy lifestyle?

Put simply - no I don't.

I am convinced that...

Type 2 is primarily a metabolic disorder - the so-called risk factors are in fact caused by the underlying metabolic imbalance. The obesity, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, and high cholesterol rather than causes are in fact symptoms of the disease.

my case sample...

Steve Redgrave - the olympic rower developed type 2 diabetes - if this isn't the epitome of a healthy lifestyle then I don't know what is.

(I do however believe that dietary intervention can delay the onset of type 2)

[Mich]

Injecto & Tanya,

I didn't intend to malign anyone on this forum who is dealing with acceptance problems. I do understand the problem with struggling to deal with health issues. Diabetes isn't the only auto-immune problem I have. Many of my friends and family have had serious health issues that have taxed me to understand why they happened or how to deal with them.

By quoting Parrot, I was reinforcing that there are some things we just have no choice but to accept if we want a quality life. It's an either/or decision and it is of course, each persons right to make it.

I fear that from articles such as this, newly diagnosed diabetics may get an overwhelming view of how difficult it is to deal with our problems. I remember when I was learning to drive, learning French, learning about beekeeping... they all seemed to have so many components that I would never be able to make my understanding be automatic, but with persistence, it did happen. Diabetes was easier for me. I was a kid. I just DID it, like kids do. Clean your room. Do the dishes. Be home at five. Take your insulin & eat the right stuff. I was terrified of needles but I was terrified of dying more.

I particularly sympathize with type 2 diabetics. Unless they take insulin, they must make it all happen with diet and exercise, a very hard thing to do in my opinion. My hat is off to those who make it work.

So please accept my apologies Injecto, if I touched a nerve. I was reacting to the story.

A hug to you, Mich

[Ashtur]

So, here's a question...I'll toss out...

Do you all think that there is a percentage of Type 2's that could have avoided the disease in the beginning with "compliant" healthy lifestyle?

There are some that had healthy lifestyles prior to diabetes...I am thinking that they would be the ones to follow up after diagnosis with better care.

Those that were on the down-hill slide anyway...that's not going to change later...after diagnosis.

It's like a body-blueprint...personality tied to health-care.

I think the whole "borderline" labels put people into a more relaxed state when diagnosed. And, as the disease progresses, they have a hard time with the truth.

As a Type 1, I really have empathy for Type II's and their struggle with acceptance, fear & education. It seems to be a more drawn out problem...Type 1's are sent home with their insulin...that's it. Truthfully, I'm just now seeing both sides...I'll take Type 1 anyday.

But, I also blame the medical education community. "Eat healthy & exercise" isn't enough info for these people.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it strikes me that you're saying that those who were overweight just simply can't "adapt" to the new lifestyle required, and I'd like to think that's untrue.

I'll freely admit, I was hanging around 300lbs for a time before diagnosis (though had lost a fair bit a couple years before dx). I've had a bit of a rollercoaster, and am finding it harder to bring the weight back down the second time, but I'm still doing it, and even with that, my A1C has only been out of range one time (I'm more worried about Hypertension at the moment).

To explain, was 300 or so at one time, got down to 210 or so, rolled back to 250, and have now fought it down to 238 and continue losing. BG of 338 at DX... and now, last A1C was 6.4, and that's still Diet/Ex ONLY.

It can be done, and I don't find it all that "harmful" to my "quality of life". Hey, I find my daily walks relaxing and a time I can think and be creative.

[pepatrick]

Personally I think you can prevent or delay diabetes if you live the healthier lifestyle. Steve Redgrave is one example in millions...This hardly proves any theory..While I am sure some people just get diabetes without being overweight and even if they excersize...Take a look at the stats...overall most people who get type 2 are overweight. I was at 300 pounds at diagnosis just 3 months ago. I am down 45 pounds in 3 months and I can already tell that certain foods (bananas, raisins and other sweet fruits) that caused elevated blood sugars shortly after diagnosis, hardly raise my blood sugars at all now. Each month...my average numbers have dropped due to healthier eating choices and physical activity. Yes...its only been 3 months...and I am still new to this....but I have learned a lot...in a short period of time.

[Alice]

No, I didn't mean to focus on weight...that's a button easily pushed with diabetics, including myself. I guess I meant that people with a positive, healthy attitude about their health (whatever weight) prior to being diabetic will most likely have the same attitude after being diagnosed.

Therefore, the opposite may be true. Although not in my immediate circle of close friends, I do know people who smoke, drink, never exercise and refuse to visit doctor for high blood pressure/cholesterol treatment. They have a "whatever kills me will kill me attitude"...even without diabetes. Add on diabetes to this negative attitude...this may be the percentage I'm talking about. And may be the percentage who responded that taking care of Diabetes is worse than the disease itself.

No, not a weight matter. Although that is certainly a cause of concern...for all of us.

[Injecto]

Injecto & Tanya,

I didn't intend to malign anyone on this forum who is dealing with acceptance problems. I do understand the problem with struggling to deal with health issues.

So please accept my apologies Injecto, if I touched a nerve. I was reacting to the story.

A hug to you, Mich

Thanks Mich.

I suppose it's pretty obvious that it touches a severe nerve in me, but like a great politician, I have to speak up for all of those who, like me, are having one Beotch of a time dealing with this stupid disease. I fear that with the 8,000+ members reading this forum (and have 1 or less posts) and coming here for emotional support and reading things that can easily be summarized as "get over the fact that you have a disease listed on the WHO website as the worlds 5th leading killer and the developed world's 3rd biggest killer and suck it up or else" type attitudes (intended or not), they will back away from getting the much needed help and support. There is so much more than just "count carbs, stick in needle, and voila, keep going". As much as I admire those that attempt to make it that simple, for the greatest of intentions, it just isn't so. So, I have to speak up.

In regards to the article, I don't find it surprising at all how many are willing to accept a shorter lifespan in order to avoid the daily/hourly rituals and mental anguish this disease brings. And it's not right to get angry at these people, quite the opposite, they need help. Love and caring, sympathy and support. There is no way a harsh attitude will change these people's way's of dealing with their health when they are already willing to shorten their life. It's like telling a suicidal teen that you will kill them if they don't cheer up!!!!! Do all cancer patients fight for their lives? No. Do all facial burn victims go on to live unhidden public lives? No. And guess what, this does NOT give the right to others to project their values and methods, and worst of all, anger and disapointment onto them. (I can't believe I'm giving a speech on compassion :eek: ). In my case, and I'm not alone trust me, I've dabbled in the thought of suicide, all too much. I forget and sometimes deliberatly don't take my medicine. And there are times when I simply refuse to take insulin (I usually end up giving in in a day or two because I'm too tired and weak from getting no nutrition). The point is, and using myself as an example and going out on a limb all alone, it's understandable that people will make the choice to accept a shorter lifespan, we shouldn't get angry at them, because in the end, that just makes us completely heartless.

Off my soapbox now.

[tanyatype1]

Folks, I don't think that Mich or Parrot meant anything toward the members here with their responses. Rather, I think you'll all find that they were simply responding to the article & those quoted in the article who'd rather give up potentially good years of living because they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" by a disease.

I do try to see the other side & empathize/sympathize, but there are instances where I will not back down (such as in the case of this article). It's impossible for Me to change My point of view on this, as I was raised differently than some & have dealt with loved ones who've had Cancer & other (what I consider to be far worse) diseases almost all my life. Though I'm more than happy to sympathize with those who have had a rough go of things & consider myself rather open-minded, there are some stances that I cannot & will not change.

Folks must also understand that many of us who are positive about Diabetes have had it for many years & were diagnosed at younger ages - which, in my mind, often makes it easier to cope. It is not my intention to sound harsh or uncaring. I'm just trying to shed some light on things here & hope that others will understand.

I agree with you too Dewey! I've also had to deal with watching both my folks die from Cancer, my brother died in a car accident at 19, my sister killed herself and one of my best-friends died from a blood disorder. (too much personal info, but gets the point across) For me, personally, Diabetes has been good to deal with - compared to all the other s@#t I've been forced to deal with. I try to be positive and supportive, even though I haven't personally experienced Diabetes as being all that bad. Ugh! I hope this is making sense! I can tell I'm low again, so I'm off to eat candy!

[Dewey]

Thank you, Tanya. I understood you. :) (((Hugs!)))

The "heartless" comment bothers me & here's why: I don't consider people who sometimes bring "tough love" to the table to be "heartless." It's probably the way they were taught or raised. I also don't consider someone (like myself, in this case) to be heartless because they care & don't want to see people Not take care of themselves...In my opinion, being heartless & uncaring would be someone who says, "Go ahead. Let your health go."

To me, it's ALL a matter of perspective & attitude. I'm not trying to make anyone change their ways, but if I'm going to be understanding of others, folks should at least attempt to understand where I'm coming from as well.

[Injecto]

There's a fine line between "Tough Love" and "Hearless/Mean" and people have used Tough Love in so many ways that it's highly variable. And given that the responses here are directed towards a study and not direct individuals, the tough love debate seems moot.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess, but on what I don't quite know.

Me, I'm just here for the chicken, it's great.

[slipperyelm]

I'd like you all to know that this very discussion helps brighten my attitude and motivate me to keep forging onward. But then, every bit I read about diabetes motivates me. Bad news, good news, harsh opinions, gentle encouragements, ignorant statements, brainiac info--I take it all in and it makes me want to do better.

Sometimes doing what I should for T2 is easy, sometimes it is not. I notoriously mention every now and then how I go through periods of excruciating hunger that I have to just bear and ignore. That is one of the hardest things, but nowadays that is probably only one day in 90 and experience tells me that it will pass in two or three days. There was a time though when I did not ever see it pass at all and I did not know that getting my daily BG way, way down would eventually help. And that is just one obstacle, sometimes I have others, but then some people may have many other obstacles--such as other medical conditions that make it hard to address diabetes, or inability to exercise, or living where they do not even have choices in what they eat (nursing home or with family who "charitably" has taken them in), or inability to afford some meds, or inability to even understand the much about diabetes or to know that there may be someone out there who can help them understand, etc.

I don't know what to say about other people who seem like they'd choose to just slide into a slow, depressed, grotesque, expensive, burdensome to others, painful death. I'm shaking my head now, I guess 'cause I'm baffled and do know someone like this. But...oh, I don't know.... What motivates me seems to cause someone else to bascially shut down effort.