B/S levels rise in a.m. before eating: normal?

[Geneal]

Hello.

This is my first post on the forum. Should I be concerned that my test readings continue to rise in the mornings, even before I eat breakfast? I'm confused why my readings are higher about 45 minutes after I get up in the morning, than they are during the day, evening, and at bedtime.

Geneal

[duck]

Look up "dawn phenomenon" using the search button here on this forum, or even google it.

From what you posted though, you don't have "typical" DP (where your sugars take off before waking up), but you have something similar where your sugars actually react to your physical waking...it's the same mechanics, your liver is pumping stored glucose into your system to supply energy to get going.

[shockme]

hi geneal and welcome to df! it's called dawn phenomenon......it's the body's way of having extra glucose to help you to wake up. a proetein snack b4 bed can help control this....how high is high,anyway?how often do you test? are you watching your carbs? take care

[Geneal]

Hi, & thanks for the replies. I'm glad to have found this forum- I think it will be a great help. Recent average for my morning readings is about 124, and my daytime & readings average about 110 or below. I test 3 to 4 times daily, and I try to watch my carb intake, but occasionally go a little overboard.

[Cyborg]

Yep, yup and yes...

Welcome aboard :wavey:

[xMenace]

Hi, & thanks for the replies. I'm glad to have found this forum- I think it will be a great help. Recent average for my morning readings is about 124, and my daytime & readings average about 110 or below. I test 3 to 4 times daily, and I try to watch my carb intake, but occasionally go a little overboard.

Welcome.

When sugars rise like that, see your doctor. It's generally time for a medication review. Diet and exercise are certainly important, but it may be time for more help.

[Larry H.]

Hi and welcome, lots of good help here.

You will find as I did that things can vary from time to time and evidently a lot of things can effect your readings from time of day, how your feeling, stress, ect.

You haven't said how long you have know about your situation or if the reading now is higher or lower than before? After I found this site I lost about 30 pounds and saw a significant drop in my morning numbers.. Of course that was with exercise and pretty strict eating as I am not wishing to take medication unless I absolutely have too. Many will say also the meters are not really exactly where your at at any given time either since they vary by 20% or more from the real reading.. But I know what your saying, I have been obsessing about some readings I was getting the past few weeks.. Some of which have returned to much better levels.. Who know why, the weather, the meter, what I ate.. I doubt that, I don't usually go way off, although for a bit I went more off than usual when the doctor said to eat cafefully, just not crazy. I realize he isn't the one with the problem and so I had to rethink his advice from the results I could see by increasing the carb intake..
Some mornings I got higher numbers at first, when I got up, then I started seeing lower numbers later instead. So who knows why.. Main thing is to do what you learn is best for you and stick with it..

[Geneal]

Is there any difference in the body's ability to process (use for energy) stored glucose as opposed to sugar/carbs that are eaten and used immediately? If the system could process "fresh" glucose o.k., but had difficulty processing stored glucose, that would be an easy explanation why my a.m. numbers are high and continue to rise until after I've eaten. For instance, this morning I got up at
7; reading at 7:15 was 121. 1 1/2 hrs. later, still with no breakfast, reading was 136. Ate breakfast, reading 2 hrs. later was 97. Sorry if I'm using improper terms, etc. Hope it makes sense.

[duck]

Your liver reacts to many inputs...one could be blood glucose levels resulting from eating something. IE, the "body" says "Hey liver, we got some food from something dude ate, don't worry about injecting any of your stored glucose--we're good right now." ON the other hand, maybe when you skip a meal at waking, your "body" says "Hey liver, need some juice--hit me!" and your liver obliges.

Some Type 2's and Type 1's here get around these things by eating something fatty/protein laden like peanut butter at bedtime...it breaks down slowly, and it makes the body send the message that "all is well" long enough that the liver holds on releasing its glucose. I have also read some Type 2's taking a shot of Gin or Vodka at bedtime, because alcohol can have a suppressive effect on liver glucose release.

NOW...In your case...I'd be interested to see what happens to your sugars all morning with ZERO breakfast. Does it keep rising? Would it have still dropped to 97 without breakfast? Etc.

[Ronin]

Hi Geneal!

Welcome to the DF web-site and, particularly the Pre-Diabetic Forum. I note that you are a new member so you haven't been part of the ongoing discussion of some of these aspects of the Pre-D diagnosis.

Regarding the Dawn Effect/Phenomenon: you don't cite specific numbers, nor do you say if you are on any medication. Those details would be quite helpful. So, if you can add that information we might be able to give you better advice from our "collective wisdom."

What you are experiencing is not unusual. I have a high Fasting Blood Glucose (FBG) level and what is facinating is that my BG levels one-hour after breakfast are alway much lower than my FBG's. That is because my body signals my liver to deliver a shot of glucose into the blood stream to "get-me-started" in the AM. I also have a low fasting C-Peptide which says that I don't have a lot of insulin in my system before breakfast. In addition my HbA1c numbers tend to indicate that I have good overall control of my BG levels. Of course your situation will be different from mine.

Please give us some additional background on yourself, what tests you have had and what medications (if any) you are taking.

[Geneal]

NOW...In your case...I'd be interested to see what happens to your sugars all morning with ZERO breakfast. Does it keep rising? Would it have still dropped to 97 without breakfast? Etc.

Thanks for the enlightening info. THIS morning, I woke up & took a reading at 4:30 a.m. (97), I got up at 7:45 & took it
(122), took it again at 8:37 (122), then ate breakfast & took it 2 hrs later (98). Tomorrow I will try to go 'till at least 10:00 before eating, & will take readings and post them here.

[Geneal]

Please give us some additional background on yourself, what tests you have had and what medications (if any) you are taking.

Thank you for the response and information. I am not currently on any medication for diabetes- trying to handle it with diet & excercise. I am on blood pressure & chlolesterol lowering meds. My HBa1c is 6.2 My doctor, so far, says everything is good & says to keep doing what I'm doing.

But I am wondering why no one so far has actually addressed my previous question? Is it possible the body CAN process & properly use(for immediate energy) sugars that are freshly ingested, but CANNOT properly process & use stored sugars (glucose?) when they are called for? Or is this just too stupid a question?

[BlueSky]

... Is it possible the body CAN process & properly use(for immediate energy) sugars that are freshly ingested, but CANNOT properly process & use stored sugars (glucose?) when they are called for? ....
I don't think so. All glucose that ends up in the bloodstream is metabolised in the same way. It makes no difference if it came from carbohydrate that is eaten, from stored glycogen or broken down protein.

[Tropo]

Thanks for the enlightening info. THIS morning, I woke up & took a reading at 4:30 a.m. (97), I got up at 7:45 & took it
(122), took it again at 8:37 (122), then ate breakfast & took it 2 hrs later (98). Tomorrow I will try to go 'till at least 10:00 before eating, & will take readings and post them here.

Your figures don't seem to add up.

I'm always high when I wake up. Averaging 110 - 120. My readings after eating are much higher than yours with 1 hour post-prandial readings of 140 - 160 with 2 hour readings in the 110 - 120 region. I hardly ever test under 100, even after a long workout at the gym yet my HbA1c reading is lower than yours at 5.7% compared to your 6.2%. 6.2% converts to an average BG of 144 which is almost 20 above mine.

According to your figures, except for that short period before breakfast you're averaging 110 even after eating (and you're even showing figures under 100 after eating). If it is true that your readings are only high for a few hours day, you should have a much lower average BG level (HbA1c). Even when you woke up at 4am to take a reading it was still under 100.

Maybe one of us is the victim of a very inaccurate meter.

[Ronin]

Hi Geneal!

Your post on testing at 0430 and then later says that the reason for your FBG levels is caused by the Dawn Effect/Phenemon (DP). That being said, your determined course of action: "Tomorrow I will try to go 'till at least 10:00 before eating, & will take readings and post them here." indicates that you don't understand the mechanism that is at work.

The DP is your bodys reaction to the need for energy to get things going. Delaying the eating of breakfast can result in you getting so hungry that you over-eat for breakfast, not to mention a wild swing in BG levels while you body is screaming for energy. The fact that your post-breakfast readings are consitently in the 90's says that your pancreas is working and your body is processing insulin. Hence you are not a Type-2 and you are probably not insuln resistant (you need a fasting C-Peptide level to determine the insulin resistance question.)

With an HbA1c of 6.2 you should modify your diet and keep doing exercise to bring it down into the low to mid 5's (my opinion only).

You do need to calm down (easy for me to say, I was exactly where you are now and panicing all over the place). The Pre-Diabetic diagnosis is new and intended to catch people before they become diabetic. The hope of the ADA was to get young people before the onset of Type-2. What actually happened is that thousands of people over-50 are being swept into the Pre-D category with some MD's seeing a single FBG above 100 and handing the person a prescription for diabetes medication (then calling for the next paitient). Your numbers are not bad for your age (I believe age is a factor but that is not a shared opinion). Lower the injested sugars and keep exercising.

[didi1]

Hi Ronin. I have been browsing and no one has posted since you (about the 1st week of nov). I always like to hear about new ideas about prediabetes and hope new ones will post soon. You sound like you are pretty well informed on the subject and I am glad to hear advise from you and others who know their subject matter in order to help others. Thanks so much to everyone who takes the time to answer questions to help others. :)

[Ronin]

Hi Dora, et al.,

Thanks to Dora for the compliment. This forum is here so that we can share knowledge with each other.

This topic, however, is about Diabetes in general. Most of us "suffer" from the Dawn Effect/Phenomenon to some degree. While science has unlocked most of the mystery of how the endocrine system attempts to manage BG levels the knowledge is generalized and still not down to specifics. On the other hand with tools like the "Gluco-Watch" (a device that tests BG levels every so many minutes all day long) we are beginning to understand what happens to BG levels while we sleep and when we awake.

I had an interesting experience on Wednesday. It all started on Tuesday when Linda and I did our daily tandem ride, we were both feeling really good and decided to "hammer" (ride at maximum output) and we set a personal record for our 22 mile loop. My leg muscles were screaming, largely because my system had gone anerobic on all the climbs on the route. The next morning my legs were stiff and a bit sore. My FBG was a whopping 128! One hour post breakfast I was back down to 95. Actually, this works out. Lactic acid (the chemical that produces that sore achy muscle feeling) is actually a signaling device to tell the liver and fat cells to release glucose as the muscle cells are at empty on the energy scale. Therefore, my body (specifically my liver) was called on for a large dump of glucose when I got up Wednesday AM.

This does lead into the use of FBG levels to "diagnose" Pre-Diabetes. There are a lot of MD's who, after one high FBG level, hand out pills and tell folks that they are Pre-D. That is bad medical practice. More than one high FBG needs to be recorded as well as an HbA1c and perhaps a Fasting C-Peptide in conjunction with a OGTT to make a firm diagnosis.

The bad medical practice leaves a lot of people like Genial in a world of panic (exactly where I was when I was "diagnosed"). FWIW: I am actually Pre-D but for the reason that my Pancreas isn't producing as much insulin as is considered "normal." Some of that is simply age related, some of it may be due to sliding towards becoming a Type-1.5 (the jury is still out on that one).

Shared knowledge is power.