Post Exercise Meal

[kstreeter513]

First of all, I would just like to say that I am so happy to have found this forum. It is really great to be able to talk to, and discuss any aspect of life with people who know exactly what we are going through.

Before I ask my question, a little background. Running is probably my biggest passion in life. I am on a pump and find that it enables me to train in ways I would find difficult on injections. Before I head out the door to run, I generally wait three hours after eating. Two reasons for this: 1) This allows time for most of the meal bolus of humalog to be finished working, and 2) Digesting food requires blood to be taken from my hard working leg muscles and sent to the intestines.

I successfully prevent a hypo by reducing my basal to 25% of the normal rate 3 hrs. prior to exercise. I usually jog between 4-8 miles and my BG is usually about the same as when I started jogging.

My question deals with all the articles about exercise nutrition. They all say that you should eat about 200 calories of high GI carbs immediatly after exercise to start the musccle glycogen restoration process. They even preach about how this is the one time when it is actually beneficial to eat high GI because the goal is to get a surge of insulin to stop that catabolic process of the muscles being broken down. All the info stresses that the sooner you eat the better. They say even waiting fifteen minutes to eat lowers your muscles ability to store extra glycogen by 50%.

As you all know, it doesn't matter if I eat high GI or low, all the sugar can only be metabolized back into my muscles as fast as my insulin will allow. Okay, finally my question. Is there any way to speed the action of my post exersice bolus, so I don't have to wait that fifteen minute period that it takes for insulin to working? Or am I just being anal about my nutrition/exercise plan?

[xMenace]

Bolus 10 to 20 minutes before the end of your run.

Keep your eyes peeled for Technosphere® insulin (http://www.socalbio.org/newsletter/Winter2004/Synergies_winter04-05.pdf)in the next year:

MannKind Corp. (Valencia):
On December 23rd, MannKind (NASDAQ: MNKD) released the positive results of its Phase-2 US clinical study of
Technosphere® insulin. When inhaled, Technosphere produces a rapid increase in blood insulin that approximates
the normal early release of insulin observed in healthy individuals in response to a meal. According a MannKind
press release, the phase-II study reported, among other things, that (1) Technosphere helped diabetics achieve a
reduction in HbA1c levels by the goal of more than 0.6 percentage points (HbA1c is a test to measure the number
of glucose molecules attached to hemoglobin over a period of three to four months); (2) approximately four times
as many patients in the Technosphere Insulin-treated group achieved a final HbA1c level of 6.5% or less as compared
to the placebo-treated group; and (3) no serious adverse side-effects resulted from the use of Technospshere.
MannKind is preparing to submit its Phase II results to the FDA. The company said it has already initiated its Phase-
III clinical trials in Europe.

[Scratch]

I don't know if I have anything to suggest here.

I just always test, inject, and eat immediately after running. No real hard evidence to confirm this impression, but I seem to have noticed more rapid uptake of my injections when popping them in my thighs after running, perhaps an effect from the increased circulation that the running provided. It also seems to help if I walk around some too, to help with the cooling off and maintaining the increased circulation. But I have no hard direct objective evidence of that -- it's just been from tracking my numbers afterwards and seemingly observing that bolus shots in my thighs after exercise are done in 3 hours, whereas 3.5 hours is more typical for me with the Novolog.

Of course, you're on a pump, but you could resort to injecting post-exercise boluses if you think it may be beneficial.

[BlueSky]

.... All the info stresses that the sooner you eat the better. They say even waiting fifteen minutes to eat lowers your muscles ability to store extra glycogen by 50%. ...
Here is my take on it.

My first thought when reading this was : why would you want store extra glycogen? Bodybuilders work hard at doing this before competitions, because they want their muscles to look puffed out. But does this make sense for a runner?

As a runner, most of your calories come from fat anyway. After the first 15-20 minutes, your body switches to keytone burning mode. Glycogen is only needed for those intense uphill runs, when your exercise becomes anaerobic. But for the most part, it will be aerobic, meaning that either fat or glucose can be used for energy. So the extent of glycogen depletion after a run is questionable. And there is no need to carry more glycogen around with you than you have to. Remember, each gram of glycogen attracts 3-4 grams of water. As a runner, you really want to keep it lean-and-mean. ;)

Having said all that, some carb in a recovery drink is a good idea and you need to bolus for it. But I wouldn't worry about the first fifteen minutes after exercise. Thirty - sixty minutes seems to be the window of opportunity. Fifty grams of carb is a lot - much of it will simply be stored as fat anyway. I would put more focus on getting sufficient amino acids to the muscles. And I would be encouraging the muscles to burn fat more efficiently.

[kstreeter513]

Here is my take on it.

My first thought when reading this was : why would you want store extra glycogen? Bodybuilders work hard at doing this before competitions, because they want their muscles to look puffed out. But does this make sense for a runner?

As a runner, most of your calories come from fat anyway. After the first 15-20 minutes, your body switches to keytone burning mode. Glycogen is only needed for those intense uphill runs, when your exercise becomes anaerobic. But for the most part, it will be aerobic, meaning that either fat or glucose can be used for energy. So the extent of glycogen depletion after a run is questionable. And there is no need to carry more glycogen around with you than you have to. Remember, each gram of glycogen attracts 3-4 grams of water. As a runner, you really want to keep it lean-and-mean. ;)

Having said all that, some carb in a recovery drink is a good idea and you need to bolus for it. But I wouldn't worry about the first fifteen minutes after exercise. Thirty - sixty minutes seems to be the window of opportunity. Fifty grams of carb is a lot - much of it will simply be stored as fat anyway. I would put more focus on getting sufficient amino acids to the muscles. And I would be encouraging the muscles to burn fat more efficiently.

Simply put, the more glycogen you can store in your muscles, the longer it takes for fatigue to set in, meaning a longer workout, which is a good thing. Also the more glycogen you can store in your muscles, the longer it takes for fatigue to set in, meaning a longer workout, which is a good thing.
Also fifty grams of carbs in a recovery drink is NOT a lot (are you one of those low carbers, ha ha). And those fifty grams of carbs will not be stored as fat. When you run you deplete muscle glycogen. Everytime you eat you restore muscle and liver glycogen, excess calories after that will be stored as fat. So fifty grams of carbs after exercise will not be stored as fat. I am livivng proof of that. I also continue to eat fifty more grams of carbs every hour after that for up to six hours ( yes thats right for a total of 300 grams carbs) on a hard day, usually just three hours though (200grams carbs). I do however agree that amino acids are important to a post exercise meal plan. Most research I have found suggests that a 4:1 carb:protein ratio is optimal. However to say that training your muscles to burn fat is efficient is just not true. Your body burns carbs as energy first. Before doing the reaserch into understanding how the body needs to be fueled for intense exercise, I did not make it a point to eat carbs. I was left feeling drained all the time, and my next run would totally suck. Now that I am properly fueling for my exercise, I have all the energy I need to perform well all the time

[BlueSky]

Simply put, the more glycogen you can store in your muscles, the longer it takes for fatigue to set in, meaning a longer workout, ...
It is a bit more complicated than this. Anaerobic exercise (pushing weights, sprinting etc.) raises adrenalin levels, which in turn causes your alpha cells to spit out glucagon. In the absence of glucagon, glycogen stays put. So if you are running or walking, you won't be using glycogen. And the amount stored in your muscles won't determine your ability to keep going.

Maybe it will help to look at some numbers here. Your liver can store about 120 grams of glycogen and your muscles can store about twice this amount, or another 240 grams. That makes a total of 360g grams of glycogen, or 1,440 calories. This is not a lot. If you are using, 500 calories an hour, you would run out of energy from this source completely before three hours are up. This is why fat becomes the main source energy soon after you start exercising.

Every Kg of fat that you carry can be turned into 9,000 calories of energy. And the reality is that about 70% of the calories you expend during an aerobic workout come from fat. This may come as surprise to you (it certainly did to me). The remaining 30% comes from glycogen and glucose in the blood stream.

People typically have access to about 80 grams of glucose in the bloodstream, or about 240 calories. This what you use when you start exercising. When this runs out, runners often "hit the wall". At this point the body switches to keytones as the primary source of energy. The more accustomed to burning fat the metabolism is, the smoother this process is. But from then on, consumption of glucose drops right off, except during anaerobic spurts. As a T1, you may have noticed that your blood sugar drops fast during the first twenty minutes and then stabilises. That is because not nearly as much glucose is being used up.

It is hard to know how much of our glycogen we actually use. It depends on the nature and the intensity of the exercise. But if we assume that 75% of muscle glycogen is used during training, that is still only 180grams (240 x .75). So much of the 300 grams of carb you eat on a "hard day" gets turned into fat, simply because it has nowhere else to go.

Our metabolism adjusts to whatever source of energy we give it. Which is why you lack energy if you don't eat lots of carbs. But it doesn't has to be that way if you don't want it to be.