Counting Carbs as a Type-2

[crpgnut]

Okay, I've read about 400 opinions on carb counting and I've figured out that there is no consensus. Among medical professionals I've heard that I should eat 20 carbs per day/40-65 per meal/20 per meal/150 net carbs per day, etc. I'm gathering that there is no consensus because even the people in this forum have a huge curve of carbohydrate intake. Everybody has a "pet idea" that they've decided to believe and there are so many pets that the Humane Society is jealous :) The ADA says that if I'm on an 1800 calorie diet that I can consume 279 carbs a day. Should I go by that? What do you folks think? After reading the web, cookbooks, books by doctors, etc-I'm still as clueless as the first day I was diagnosed. I just started taking metformin today. I guess I'll just wait 3 weeks for it to flood my system and then develop my own personal carb intake based on what it takes to keep my blood sugar around 100. Does that sound like a feasible plan?

[xMenace]

Okay, I've read about 400 opinions on carb counting ... develop my own personal carb intake based on what it takes to keep my blood sugar around 100. Does that sound like a feasible plan?

You've read 400 more than I have ;)

That's the plan I follow. IMO it's the only plan that matters for BGs. The other plans are more concerned with health and weight.

[princesslinda]

I think the best advice I was given shortly after diagnosis was to "eat by my meter." Eat, test 2 hrs after first bite and you'll find out what works for you....and i'm betting the ADA recommended amount won't. I was given that information at first, and realized if I ate that many carbs i'd never be able to manage the blood sugars I wanted.

Lower carb does help, but we all have different carb tolerances...and different definitions of the term "low-carb." We also have different mindsets about diabetes and its treatment...some don't mind medicines if it allows more food freedom, others may have to take meds, but want as little medicine as possible, others are trying to keep control with no meds....we're all at different stages in our disease.

For me, i've seen the difference in my blood sugars eating low carb vs more "traditional" type foods...and, even with medicine, I can't tolerate a lot of carbs without higher numbers.

Hang in there...find what works for you and you'll be fine.

[Kim_in_TN]

Thank you for saying this! I am the same way! I find it difficult to try and count anything before putting it into my mouth ... carbs, fat grams, calories, etc.! It's all that counting that has made me fail at any sort of "dieting" in the past. I am now trying to just make smarter choices and not obviously go overboard on my portions. Also, the key is testing after meals and just seeing how certain things affect your BG. I know that bread really sends my sugars soaring! *sigh*

[CaptainMike]

I absolutely guarantee you that as a newly diagnosed type 2 who is not having to inject insulin that you can 100% control your blood sugar by controlling your carb intake. You can keep your blood sugar within a non-diabetic range 100% of the time by controlling your carb intake. All without any medications.
Your doctor will (probably) not tell you this.

The question is, do you have the determination, dedication, and willpower necessary to eat very low carb?

It is EXTREMELY difficult to do. I have been at it (Ultra low carbing) for 6 months, I quit taking meds 3 months ago, I get my A1C results tomorrow. I am expecting something in the mid 5's but I'll report back.
Is it the right approach for you? Only you can answer that. It is certainly easier to take metaformin and have a sandwich every once in a while, than to never eat bread. We all have to conduct our own experiments and determine what we are willing to do.

[jimhodges]

Count your blessings. What you are saying is true. It was once true for me. (25 years ago) I can absolutely guarantee that not everybody is so fortunate. Many diabetics do everything by the book and still struggle with their bg's no matter what they eat.

[princesslinda]

Count your blessings. What you are saying is true. It was once true for me. (25 years ago) I can absolutely guarantee that not everybody is so fortunate. Many diabetics do everything by the book and still struggle with their bg's no matter what they eat.

I agree Jim. Diabetes is progressive, and after awhile, even our best efforts may not be good enough, and most will have to go on insulin or have medicine changes/adjustments. There's absolutely no reason for anyone to look at it as a failure, its just part of the disease process.

I was started on metformin immediately at diagnosis, and even on it, could not tolerate certain foods. There may be some on meds that take them in order to have more leniency food-wise, but some take meds just to maintain acceptable levels.

All we can do is our best, and hope that medicine continues to produce options for better quality of life for us.

[CaptainMike]

Linda, have you TRIED eating less than 5 grams of carbs a day, every single day? I bet if you did, you could quit both the Byetta and Metformin. That being said, it is an extremely difficult thing to do, and should be done with the assistance/knowledge of a doctor.
I in no way meant to imply that people who take meds are weak or lacking in willpower. Ultra-low carbing is not a panacea, there are risks and side-effects, as well as mental and physical challenges to overcome. Bernstein tends to gloss over just how difficult it is in his books, but it can be done, though it certainly isn't for everybody. The old saying "You can't argue with results" is fully applicable here though. I just happen to hate diabetes more than I love carbohydrates, and so far this experiment is working pretty well for me. I'd like to hear from any type 2 who has gone TRULY zero carb and was not able to control their blood sugar doing it.

[princesslinda]

Mike, I do understand what you're saying. I did follow Bernstein's 6-12-12 plan for several months when first diagnosed and had very good results (though I was still taking metformin at the time). I notice that many on the Bernstein forum who follow the 6,12,12 are also on meds to help with their diabetes...and many have A1Cs that are equal to mine.

I currently only take Byetta, stopping the metformin when I started Byetta , as my blood sugars were going low on both of them. I started Byetta after reading that it could possibly help regenerate islet cells, which to me was worth a couple of shots in the belly..NOT because of higher blood sugar readings. It also helps with early satiety, and weight loss is an issue for me. I have lost around 80 lbs since diagnosis, but still have more to go. I also have a component of insulin resistance as well as PCOS, which makes losing weight a little more difficult. So far, it has helped with my hunger.

Even on the metformin, I certainly couldn't "eat a sandwich" without higher blood sugar readings. For me, i'm happy with my current A1C, and am hoping that the Byetta will aid in weight loss so that I can at some point get off all meds.

Again, I applaud your will-power and your results. I hope they continue for many, many years.

[Evermont]

I don't count carbs or calories and I take no meds. I'm losing weight and my A1c went from bad to good in 3 months.

Counting carbs is something I could do. Maybe someday I will. Perhaps someday my diabetes will progress to the point that I need to count carbs - and start with meds too.

Since I don't count carbs it's hard to say if I'm low carb or not. I can say for sure that I eat less carbs than I used to. More importantly, I distinguish between good carbs and bad carbs. I stay away from high Glycemic Index carbs such as things made with refined wheat flour. Even more importantly, I do strength and cardio exercise regularly. It works.

[crpgnut]

I could give up bread but my weakness is going to be meat. I'm a carnivore :) I'm doing my best to try to keep my meat intake down, but I don't think I've come close to the 5 oz. a day that the guide recommends. I don't eat meat at breakfast, but lunch and dinner MUST have meat for me to feel like I've eaten. I'm just replacing the potatoes with green peppers, onions, and other rabbit foods. I'm trying to keep the bread minimal too. I've been drinking the no salt added V8 as my primary supper beverage and the 5 calorie minute maid light as my lunch beverage. I'm only on my 2nd day of Metformin, but my counts have dropped from 377 on my first test down to about 220. My only outward sign of my diabetes is my eyesight. I'm on a computer for 10 hours a day and then I read a lot at night. I sometimes have trouble focussing on the text in books. I've seen an opthamologist and have no signs of diabetic retinopathy. I'm still only testing a couple of days a week. I plan on testing twice daily once I've been on the Metformin for 3 weeks. I really see no purpose in it til then. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[matingara]

I could give up bread but my weakness is going to be meat. I'm a carnivore :) I'm doing my best to try to keep my meat intake down, but I don't think I've come close to the 5 oz. a day that the guide recommends. I don't eat meat at breakfast, but lunch and dinner MUST have meat for me to feel like I've eaten. I'm just replacing the potatoes with green peppers, onions, and other rabbit foods. I'm trying to keep the bread minimal too. I've been drinking the no salt added V8 as my primary supper beverage and the 5 calorie minute maid light as my lunch beverage. I'm only on my 2nd day of Metformin, but my counts have dropped from 377 on my first test down to about 220. My only outward sign of my diabetes is my eyesight. I'm on a computer for 10 hours a day and then I read a lot at night. I sometimes have trouble focussing on the text in books. I've seen an opthamologist and have no signs of diabetic retinopathy. I'm still only testing a couple of days a week. I plan on testing twice daily once I've been on the Metformin for 3 weeks. I really see no purpose in it til then. Correct me if I'm wrong.

why are you limiting meats? that is one thing that will help keep your blood sugars low as it has no carbs and the glucose that is derived from meat is done so inefficiently and over a very long period of time.

i have INCREASED my meat intake.

if i have breakfast it is ham and eggs or salami and eggs.

as an example, for dinner i have increased the size of the piece of steak i eat. i have increased the size of my salad. i also have peas or fava beans.

i have ELIMINATED bread. if i have rice i have one tablespoonful. if i have pasta i have 1/4 of a cup. my BGLs are fab. my HbA1C is fab. my lipid panel is fab.

none of the above were fab whan i was on a low fat high carb diet.

have a look at this photo - to help give you an idea.

-- Joel.
Low Carb Heaven!!! on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matingara/2207882899/)

[davef]

crpgnut,

When I was diagnosed 10 weeks ago, some of the best advice I got was here on DF. I followed the advice of test, test, test, test and as Linda says testing 2 hours after meals. In this way I found out what foods were working for me and what was giving me spikes. I would consider myself to be a low-carb eater, but I'm not following any particular diet plan other than having found what works and what doesn't work.

Certainly I have read the phrase "Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)" and found it to be very true. I'm on Metformin and it did take a few weeks to see a significant reduction on my BG. But I have them down now, my 14 days average (as of this morning) is now 95.4, and I do seem to be able to keep it below 110 for random readings/fasting and below 140 two hours after meals.

"My" low carb approach has worked for me and has also helped me lose 32lbs in the last 10 weeks.

So in my humble opinion your idea "I guess I'll just wait 3 weeks for it to flood my system and then develop my own personal carb intake based on what it takes to keep my blood sugar around 100. Does that sound like a feasible plan?" is feasible. The key for me was test, test, test.

[LoDeSp]

I could give up bread but my weakness is going to be meat. I'm a carnivore :) I'm doing my best to try to keep my meat intake down, but I don't think I've come close to the 5 oz. a day that the guide recommends. I don't eat meat at breakfast, but lunch and dinner MUST have meat for me to feel like I've eaten.

My advice: don't limit yourself by the ADA's guidelines. For some they work, for most here they don't. I personally eat meat (or a meat substitute) at every meal. For breakfast this morning I had 4 oz. of meat (2 eggs + 2 oz kielbasa).

Keep in mind also that diabetics and non-diabetics generally have a harder time processing carbs at breakfast. So I try to keep my breakfast carbs below 30g. The rest of the day I can be a little looser, so I end up around 150g carbs per day. Cutting my breakfast carbs has made a big difference in my BS. So it's not only how many carbs you're eating, but when.

In general, you'll have to find a balance where you're comfortable. It's possible that you won't need the Metformin at all. Since my diagnosis (A1C = 6.8), I've been able to get off all meds and control my D with diet & exercise alone (last A1C = 5.6). You may or may not be able to do this, but I'd suggest doing as much as you can by diet and exercise and then add drugs to get your levels to your goals (which IMO should be < 140 after meals and an A1C < 6.0).

[crpgnut]

Thanks again all! I don't know my A1C count yet. I have another batch of tests and one of them is the A1C. I'll post my score once I get it Monday. It'll probably be 30! I've only tested four times because I'm not very far into the Metformin.
My scores have been dropping though since I started watching what I eat. It's been 377,256,237, and today was 210! That's been my best score yet. I've been testing between 2-3 hours after breakfast each time. I'm at work, so the time varies because of workflow. I love my FreeStyle lite BGM but GHP has a different brand that they are sending me. I can get 100 strips for $25 with that brand. I understand the strips are pricey.

[Lloyd]

I lowered my carb count to an average of 75/day, from 150/day when I went on the pump 11 months ago.
Results have been spectacular, in my estimation. 35 lbs lost, Ave glucose 89 without lows, last A1c 5.3 (I expect an improvement next time). Triglycerides of 54.

[David_S]

I have to say the ADA diet recommended to me is over 100 carbs more then I now eat a day.. we do 30 a meal.. and a snack or two based on activity that day.
My wife who is not diabetic.. lost 75 pounds.. and may have prevented her own type 2 issues!
Low carb has helped us both.. actually lower carb,. many people like you said have a diff idea of what low is..
we read Dr. Berstein.. decided he did what he needed to do before lantus.. long acting insulins were available to him.. and tweaked it up from his ideas. We don't suffer through meals.. we just keep the carbs at 30.. and it works for me and her.
We have a healthier approach to eating.. and meat.. well.. bring it on.. we eat it.. eat it eat it.. ! and my cholesterol dropped 29 points last year.

[doctordun]

Is there a "Best" book on finding out carbs in products you're not sure about?

Does anyone use a hand held electronic carb counter and if so, which is the best you've found?

What is the best way to tell how a certain meal has affected your glucose levels? I've been advised to test 2 hours after a meal. From what I've been reading here, that seems to be about right.

[tammyc]

What in the world do you eat???? I would not have a clue how to eat 0 carbs.

[Real4]

The ADA says that if I'm on an 1800 calorie diet that I can consume 279 carbs a day.
I guess I'll just wait 3 weeks for it to flood my system and then develop my own personal carb intake based on what it takes to keep my blood sugar around 100. Does that sound like a feasible plan?
You can be darn sure that the ADA recommendation won't put you at 100 (~6). You should know that the ADA was AGAINST home testing (meters) and carb counting for the longest time. I could believe that ADA stands for Against Diabetics Always. Their approach seems to be that all diabetics are stupid, very stupid, and only the most simple treatments, ever if they don't work well, are to be endorsed, because the poor folk can't handle anything else. They are paternalistic medical 'racists', if you will.