A Thread for Diabetic Weightlifters, Bodybuilders, Powerlifters & Fitness Lifters

[pumper]

Hello everyone

I'm think that we should start a tread for people with diabetes who lift weights. This could be for fitness buffs, power lifters, olympic lifters, bodybuilders and any other type of weight lifters.

This thread could cover topics specific to diabetes and weightlifting such as:
-impact on insulin use (ie lowered, higher, basal rate changes)
-bodybuilding diets and the impact on blood sugars
-supplements (protein powders, creatine, etc...)
-ability to loose weight and drop BF% (ie getting 'cut')
-ability to put on muscle mass (ie 'bulking')
-types of workouts
-types of cardio

In addition, this could be a great forum for mutual support. Any comments, help, discussion from anyone would be great. I'd like other weightlifters/bodybuilders with Type I diabetes to post questions and answers and opinions on this tread, all in a diabetes context.

I've been bodybuilding on and off (mainly off recently...) for the last 10 years. There are often problems and adjustments that we need to make in bodybuilding in order to take our diabetes into account-in terms of blood sugars, insulins, etc...

I'm currently trying to get back into bodybuilding. I've always found that there is very little information out there about diabetes and bodybuilding.

So, considering that there are already a number of diabetic bodybuilders on this forum, why not pool the incrediable amout of experience, knowledge and wisdom about bodybuilding and diabetes.

So, anyone (with Diabetes), please post a question/suggestion for all to read and learn from.

Anyone willing to join in?

[xMenace]

Ya,

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

[pumper]

I asked my endo if it was ok to take protein powder.

He suggested that they did very little good and it would be better to follow a balanced diet instead. Why stress the kidneys further? He asks.

First off-saw your location...I'm originally from New Brunswick also...Near the Edmudston reagion, but haven't leaved there in a long time. Great to have anoher New Brunswicker here...

My two cents on protein powder. My brother-in-law is a bodybuilder (at near competitive level...) and he has never used ANY protein powders... So, I think that they are NOT ESSENTIAL to putting on mass. People who exercise alot do need more protein-but you and I should be able to get that protein from a balanced diet.

BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders. However, be aware, that many (but not all) protein powders have added sugar.

So, you lift?

[Evermont]

...BUT, I think that protein powders have role to play for people who arn't getting enough protein from their normal diet. People who are vegetarian, people who eat very little meat (for what ever reason) could benefit from protein powders...

I agree with you that protein powders are often not needed. As a somewhat muscular 22 year vegetarian I can tell you without reservation that I've never had the least interest in protein powders. Since Dx 5 months ago I've been doing regular cardio and strength training and I'm building muscle noticeably with balanced diet only. I get protein from a variety of sources, eggs (egg beaters), lowfat dairy products, beans, soy products, lentils, nuts, etc. I've taken the time and trouble to learn how to do this right and it's paying off. No shortcuts.

Now, I'm not out to impress anyone. Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat. My goal simply to lose weight slowly and steadily and by doing so, improve my insulin resistance.

I like free weights but use other equipment too.

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

[kstreeter513]

I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.
So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

[pumper]

Not looking to get ripped though I expect to sneak up on that as the new muscle burns up my excess body fat.

I like that way you say that...

You said that you wanted start a thread on lifting weights - did you mean to say that you want to start a subforum? I would participate in either, and while we're at it, I think a subforum on nutrition would make sense too.

Great! For now, I'm hoping on a really great thread. I fear that there arn't enough people with diabetes who lift weights to make a subforum a viable option (though I would love to be shown wrong that that one). So, it would be great if you were willing to join in a thread on this topic.

In terms of a subforum on nutrition, there should be enough general interest in the topic to make that a more viable option.

[pumper]

I am very courious about the post exercise meal. In many articles, this is emphacized as being the most important meal of the day. They say to eat/drink high GI foods to get that surge of insulin because of its anabolic effects. And the best time for muscle glycogen resynthesis is immediatly following exercise. For "normal" people this is no problem, but for us, we have to wait for the time it takes the insulin to start working.
So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

Just my opinion here...not that much experience to back it up. In my mind, the huge importance of the post workout meal is questionable. It makes sense on paper, but I'm not certain that it has been scientifically proven. Most of the articles that talk about the importance of the post workout meal are written by people who have no scientific training-so, in my mind, many of them might not know what they are talking about. My issue is that they talk about the post-exercise period as a time when the blood stream is COMPLETELY empty of all nutrients (carbs, proteins) which is something that I don't believe happens to that level, especially in a person with a good diet. However, it does make sense that the blood stream would have fewer nutrients in it.

[pumper]

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

Sorry dude for two postings-got interrupted.

My bottom line...You'll still pack on muscle even if you don't have a post-workout meal (or the "perfect") post workout meal because in my opinion, there are always nutrients floating around in your blood stream and because your body rebuilds muscle for several days after a workout. So, your window of opportunity shouldn't be that short (ie, its not like you only have 1 hr in which a post-workout meal is effective...)

Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

Let me know what you think.

[xMenace]

So, you lift?

I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts ;)

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

[BlueSky]

.... if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.....

I think that is one of those YMMV things. I have always been lean and have had great difficulty building muscle. This was in spite of strenuous resistance workouts and eating lots of meat, fish, chiken and eggs at meal times. It all changed when I started having a full-cream milk based protein shake after resistance workouts. I lost a lot of muscle while recovering from a back injury. Post-workout protein shakes enabled me to build a fair amount of muscle very quickly. I was delighted, and I am still kicking myself for relying on mealtime protein for all those years :o ....

[pumper]

I have lifted sporadically. My strength is in my legs, hockey legs if you will. I love squatting and all leg exercises. I dread upper body workouts ;)

Excellent-you've got the exact opposite problem that most bodybuilders have...(ie huge upper body, tiny legs). Like you, I find that I can put mass on my legs much more easily than anywhere else... and a good pair of muscular legs can be as inpressive as a good bicep peak.

I am planning on starting up again this spring. I really need to get exercising again. My son will be lifting for hockey (he's almost 16), and I plan on joining him. We have a power rack and 300+lbs of weights and an ok bench with leg attachments. We currently have a bunch of my mom's stuff cluttering the room, but once we clean that out we can get going.

Wow-lifting with your son... won't you be the cool dad (I can only hope to do the same with my own kids when they get old enough (currently in the "oven"...). Good luck with that!!!

[kstreeter513]

Now, if you do want a post-workout meal... You could have some carbs and you could mimic the insulin spike (in non-diabetics) by taking insulin after the workout to cover the carbs in the post-workout meal. However, be aware that you might need less insulin because you should be relatively insulin sensitive right after a workout. You could also have protein. So, if you want, you could have a protein shake to get both carbs (and insulin for the carbs) and protein-just remember that your insulin might go further than it usually does. But if you don't have a post-workout meal, you'll still put on muscle.

Let me know what you think.

See, this is where I am strange I suppose. My exercise of choice is running so to keep from going low during a run (which happens very quickly if I don't adjust insulin) I reduce my basal insulin about three hours before I start. By the time I begin my jog, my BG is about 150, and my circulating insulin is low.

For runs under one hour, a normal I:C ratio works well to cover any post exercise carbs. For runs lasting 2+ hrs., I need to approximately triple the insulin to cover a given number of carbs even though my BG's are always around 100 when I finish running.

My only guess here is that my stress hormones (glucagon, epinephrine, etc.) are extremely elevated due to the energy demands placed on my body. I think it takes that much more insulin to bring these hormones down to a normal level. If I don't triple the insulin, the sugars will easily be in the 300-400 two hours later.

I do, however notice that after the initial PWO bolus, I will be very insulin sensitive for the next few DAYS following a long run.

[Sugarhead]

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

[pumper]

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

Yes, I've heard of that, but I'm not quite certain how to do it... I know that non-diabetic bodybuilders take insulin as a growth hormone (which is very dangerous) but obviously how they do it might not apply to you and I...

I'm currently trying to figure that out myself and have a few good leads on it. I'll post something here once I've figured it out.

But maybe some other people on this thread know how to do it?

[Scratch]

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

Here's an idea. It may not be sexy and fast, but it will work.

The secret to getting fitter, to getting in better shape, the secret is putting in the time and working at it.

If you want to get leaner, you need to watch what you eat.

If you want to get more muscular, you'll need to do strength training, you can use weights or bodyweight exercises for that.

I think it's dangerous when people and we're all susceptible to this, think about how can we shortcut the process. When we think, "Instead of thinking how if I work at it for year where will I be, how can I maybe just mess around with how I dose my insulin to have everything happen faster?"

From what I've been able to do and learn about over the past year, I think guys like Ross Enamait have good programs to teach people about the principles behind getting in better shape, becoming more fit, more muscular, and losing fat. Stonglifts.com is another decent site with good advice.

Following those principles and working at them consistently will make you leaner and more muscular as long as you follow your diabetic responsibilities of doing your best to make your metabolism function like the normal population's.

[JadeMonkey]

I've done a bit of strength training and lifting but have been out of it since the middle of last year and need to get back into it. Trying to do things the "right" way and just beginning my real education on the subject.

I have found that having a protein shake right after my workout helps reduce how sore I get in the following days. (I am always fine the day after lifting, it's the day after that when I get really sore). I'm not sure if an equal amount of non-powdered protein would have the same effect but I'm sure it probably would.

I'm looking forward to learning from you guys, any suggestions or tips are much appreciated. Any good forums out there for guys that want to get bigger/leaner but not necessarily pro level? I'm checking out the sites that Scratch listed now; pretty sure he meant stronglifts .com

-Jade

[Sugarhead]

yes I have read about the non-diabetics using insulin to help with muscle growth. I am not necessarily looking for a short cut (althought that would be great) but to be efficient with the taking of insulin. I have to take it anyways why not make it as efficient as possible? I do take a protein shake after lifting with a small amount of carb. Also, I have taken half a recovery type drink (protein and Carb) before with a little insulin. Since my lifting takes about 40 min it should be working at the time I am entering the recovery stage. After lifting I take the rest. I find it works pretty well and my sugars are stable. I do a BG test half way through my workout and adjust slightly for different types of training. For example I take less insulin when doing legs and more when doing arms/abs. Those legs just suck up the sugar in the blood stream.

[sedita]

If you haven't already read it, a great book is: Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

I have been an off and on lifter. Currently trying to get my cardiovascular fitness back and once I have base with that then I will be jumping back into the lifting.

[pumper]

I'm looking forward to learning from you guys, any suggestions or tips are much appreciated. Any good forums out there for guys that want to get bigger/leaner but not necessarily pro level? I'm checking out the sites that Scratch listed now; pretty sure he meant stronglifts .com

-Jade

Dude, in terms of other forums, I read:
A Thread for people with Type I Diabetes (Insulin-dependent) Only - Bodybuilding.com Forums (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=485093)
Any body builders out there?? - Diabetes Forum (http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/exercise/2719-any-body-builders-out-there)
diabetes and bodybuilding - Diabetes Forum (http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/exercise/1250-diabetes-bodybuilding)

All of these sites have alot of great people who know alot about diabetes and bodybuilding. I post to these sites using a similar screen name to here.

I've never checked out Stronglifts.com-will have to...

[pumper]

I am not necessarily looking for a short cut (althought that would be great) but to be efficient with the taking of insulin. I have to take it anyways why not make it as efficient as possible?

My feelings exactly...

I take less insulin when doing legs and more when doing arms/abs. Those legs just suck up the sugar in the blood stream.

I'm just getting back into bodybuilding myself plus I'm a new pumper so really, I'm getting used to workingout with a pump. But, your comment on needing less insulin for leg workouts and more for arm/abs workouts makes sense. Thinking back on it, i think that my past blood sugars on leg vs arm days suggest that the same applies to me. I've just never made this correlation before. But, considering that legs are huge muscle groups and that arms are small muscle groups (no matter how much we want large biceps), this makes sense.

[Scratch]

So I guess what I am wondering is: What is best for a diabetic to eat following intense exercise. And how can I take advantage of that short window of opportunity to refeed my muscles following a workout?

I ended up performing an unplanned experiment yesterday. The day had been going well up until 2 PM when I checked my blood sugar after lunch and realized that I had forgotten my bolus injection. Prior to that, all my previous tests had been under 100 mg/dl and bam -- 354 mg/dl. Oy. I guess that's why I had been feeling progressively more sluggish while I had been working on a project at work.

So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

[1type2go]

POTATOS!!!kstreeter513
with muscles like a sponge 50gs of carbs add a can of drained salmon and a bit of low fat cheese Ya got 30 to 35g of protein ........an hour of weightlifting you can count on cutting back on your shot (for me I'm a no rest lifter I'd cut it in half )unless your going ta eat for it ...Thats My Choice!.
Keep the heart rate up at least over 100bpm ,bring it up with 5 or 10min of cardio Target Heart Rate Calculator (http://www.stevenscreek.com/goodies/hr.shtml)

Don't forget to take a box of raisins and juice besides your water and


well I could go on ......

Donovan

[kstreeter513]

I ended up performing an unplanned experiment yesterday. The day had been going well up until 2 PM when I checked my blood sugar after lunch and realized that I had forgotten my bolus injection. Prior to that, all my previous tests had been under 100 mg/dl and bam -- 354 mg/dl. Oy. I guess that's why I had been feeling progressively more sluggish while I had been working on a project at work.

So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

Thats very interesting. I have thought about giving an injection into my muscle before, but I ended up being afraid of going hypo too quickly. Maybe I will try that experiment on my own to see if it works for me.

[1type2go]

Juts a word of opinion
when you chk the sites ....these are not diabetics.
Build Muscle & Lose Fat through Strength Training | StrongLifts.com (http://stronglifts.com/)
this is a great site!! I wouldn't have found it on my own THANX
5x5 for beginner .......I'd be flat on the floor, I think
I do believe in whole body in the beginning, make sure you've got long burn carbs (low GI )on board ,take a box of raisins and a juice besides your liter of water , start with legs to get your protein synth. going.
Start with lighter weights as much as you can for 8-10 ,slower reps with concentration,if you can't do slow it may be too much weight ,.....mabey for three sets ,this is for strength not mass but you need strength first before injury:T

Soon you'll find you could do more than 8-10 reps ...Time to increase the weight so you cant do more than 10reps!! last rep
I my self, work opposing muscle groups pec/traps, bi's/tri's, that sort of thing

If you think about what you're doing ...yur gonna feel it the next day or day after

[pumper]

So I grabbed my flexpen and lined up for a spot where there isn't much fat over my left tricep, although I imagine one could also go after the deltoid even easier where there's less fat generally on people. But I drove the needle straight in to where I felt it enter the tricep muscle and then gave my lunch bolus.

So far so good. I then did a set of tabata intervals with the left arm, fanning it in a windmill action hard for 20 seconds, resting for 10 seconds, and so on until 4 minutes of that was done. 1.5 hours later my blood sugar was down to 110 mg/dl and based upon subsequent testing, I think I got all the Novolog from that injection used up in around 2.5 hours.

So that might be a way for person who wants to achieve a more rapid uptake of insulin to do it. As always, the usual cautions are provided, that we all have individual variance so your results might vary, always do such experiments on the self with necessary supplies in waiting in case of unanticipated consequences, etc.

Yes, injecting insulin into (or near) a muscle that you are going to vigorously use will always speed up its absorption (ie injecting into the legs and going for a run will make that insulin start working faster).

[pumper]

(for me I'm a no rest lifter)

Donovan,
Great advice dude!!!

I'm terrible at NOT being a "no rest lifter." I tend to rest way too much. Usually, by the time I get around to lifting, its the end of the day and I'm tired (and not always in the mood to lift by then). So, I end up resting way too long between sets - and I know that that hurts my workouts.

By the way, do you consider yourself a weightlifter, fitness lifter or bodybuilder? I guess that it depends on your goals.

I tend to do arms and shoulders at home (since I have a "small" home gym) and chest, back and legs at the gym. My problem, right now, is that I'm in a relatively busy time in my career and life. So, lately, I've been having a hard time scheduling in workouts. I've been getting in an average of one arm workout a week (at home) instead of at least two and haven't made it to the gym for a leg workout in a while...I find it frustrating, but right now it just seems like i'm facing one work deadline after the other and simply post-poning my workouts till "tomorrow." You're a family guy, how do you schdule it all in?

[RyanN]

Any advice for me?

I am a REALLY active man in his mid-thirties.
I walk about 6kms in my daily city routine.
I train in martial arts and love to bicycle.
I also lift weights.

My problem is that I stay at the same weight
(165-170). I'll gain muscle, but then my body takes it from
fat in some other part of my body; so I get more grizzly looking as opposed to more puffy and presentable.

I eat a lot and keep the BG at an okay level (upper 100's,
lower 200's prior to physical activity), but I can't figure out where I can find room in my insulin regimen to eat more.
I tried eating several small meals during the day instead of 3 biggies, but my Humalog bolus' kept overlapping (even after 3 1/2 hours between meals) so I abandoned that.

Lately, I've been adding a hard-boiled egg to my lunch and dinner, but I know I need more.

My situation is funny, because I actually want to get fatter.

Any ideas how to do this without making the BG crazy or
eating a tub of artery-clogging lard?

[1type2go]

My situation is funny, because I actually want to get fatter.

Any ideas how to do this without making the BG crazy or
eating a tub of artery-clogging lard?
__________________
Well put ..........

clean carbs ..lots :after working hard ,be it walking or anything at home after exercises ,good fat and cut out your cardio other than your walking (commuting).Look into glutamine,this is a poss.It prevents you from breaking down protein in,when working to hard or to long with out antiquate carb fuel,EAT MORE . Muscle saver for some hospital Burn units

got ta run Donovan

[1type2go]

Check this out for info on protein powders:D

Protein Amino Acids Information (http://www.getbig.com/articles/protein.htm)

[RyanN]

Hey, thanks again for the geat info.
I figured out how to count my carbs,
and I found out I need about 380-400 grams
per day just to suport my very active lifestyle;
I've been only eating around 280-300 grams--and
duh! I wonder why I stay at he same weight or lose it
easily during over-active times (those weeks where
the sun just won't stop shining and everyday is a great day to
go mountain biking, and swimming, and walking and . . .).
So I am now figuring how to put those into my diet
with the requisite amounts of insulin to help get all that energy into my cells. I love eating, and eating healthy foods,
so I am a happy camper now :D

Thanks again to everyone on this GREAT forum.

[BlueSky]

.... My situation is funny, because I actually want to get fatter. ...
I agree that the best way to gain fat is to increase carbs. But why would you want to do this? The problem with fat is that getting rid of it is really hard. And it gets harder as you age. My suggestion is to take a long term view of this ;) . Be happy with your body the way it is. As you age, you will lose muscle and you will gain fat. It happens to everyone. Use this opportunity to build the muscle you need to set yourself up for the aging process. There is little to be gained by adding fat that your body really doesn't want. Especially since doing this will make maintaining satisfactory BG control more difficult.

[Sugarhead]

Type1toGo - how did you cut to only 12%BF. I am working on moving from 18% to 12% right now. My plan is
Day 1 Chest/Back/Abs
Day 2 Cardio
Day 3 Arms/Shoulders/Abs
Day 4 Yoga
Day 5 Legs/Back
Day 6 Cardio
Day 7 Rest

But its the diet, did you cut the carbs way down? I think cutting the starches is a good idea, some fruit (1 serving) should do it+ protein shake with 26g protien and 45 grams carb after workout. What was your senario? I am 44 years old and 179lbs, 5'11"

[1type2go]

Hey Sugarhead

I guess it's all in the way I work out ...and diet and consistancy.
I do cycle my intake and really look at timing ...
cardio day, with eggs,egg whites and toast at 6:am,snack granola bar(hard)9:am Coffee lrg strbuks.non fat milk,
lunch two slices whl.whet.can of salmon10:30,afternoon snack water,granola bar...again,and hit the Gym 4:pm till 5:pm 40 min cardio try to hit and cycle heart rate from 70%-80% of max heart rate.
For me thats 140-155 bpm...for you depending on f.i.t ness level thats 117-135 cycle up for 1 min and down for 2-4 min.
Make sure you have a box of raisins or juice besides your water.
Dinner...chicken breast on a bed of fresh spinach!!!


Its all about timing
I have ta run

[1type2go]

Originally Posted by Sugarhead
Type1toGo - how did you cut to only 12%BF. I am working on moving from 18% to 12% right now. My plan is

Day 1 Chest/Back/Abs
-This is the time to hit carbs for re-fueling muscles/with in 1/2Hr (protein too you need it don't starve your catabolic body

Day 2 Cardio
- Try for more low GI foods and protein , 40min long term or split the 40 min.cardio low carb day.

Day 3 Arms/Shoulders/Abs
- same as day one always low fat (good fats OK)

Day 4 Yoga
You're going to be tired ,rest....

Day 5 Legs/Back
- I think you have to hit legs in a minor capacity each day lifting (not cardio days)

Day 6 Cardio
- low carb day and the next day cheat with a burger hold the fries though(this is a great way to plan and not eat like this on any other day...also the guilt factor to get you back into the Gym,.do not cheat on any other day,fuel muscles or you will set your body into starvation (catabolic state converting muscle into carbohydrates,

Exercise, protein metabolism, and muscle growth. [Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140?dopt=abstractplus)

..look into the effects of Glutamine)

Day 7 Rest
- Eat now for day one ,no carbs after 4:30 if you can get by.

There is some relevants as to what time you work out ,and how long you rest for between sets.(just enough):D .

I hit it hard and do opposing muscle groups (back to back)


What do ya eat??when do you w\out??


Donovan

[Sugarhead]

I have started working out in the morning 5:30am or 6am. I am changing my diet slightly to lower GI foods and have starte experimenting with square wave bolusing. When I do square wave I start about 30 min before I eat. Also, my post workout drink is 45 gr carb and I start my bolus (regular) 15 min before I am done, but I think will move this to 30min before completion. I have taken the fast acting starch out of my diet. Its protien, sweet potatoes, celery, salad, tomatoes, more meat.

What do you do if your bsugar raises above your target, do you square bolus to bring them down or regular bolus to bring them down?

[pumper]

I have started working out in the morning 5:30am or 6am.

Impressive. That's more will power than what I've got...

I am changing my diet slightly to lower GI foods and have starte experimenting with square wave bolusing. When I do square wave I start about 30 min before I eat. Also, my post workout drink is 45 gr carb and I start my bolus (regular) 15 min before I am done, but I think will move this to 30min before completion. I have taken the fast acting starch out of my diet. Its protien, sweet potatoes, celery, salad, tomatoes, more meat.

What do you do if your bsugar raises above your target, do you square bolus to bring them down or regular bolus to bring them down?

Just my two cents here...
I regular bolus everything. So, if my BG is above target, I just give a regular bolus. The only time that I've done a square bolus is when eating something that will take a while to digest. For eg., pizza has alot of fat in it and therefore slow to digest - so, if I regular bolus, I go low by the end of the meal then go high several hours later. So, a square wave will release the insulin slower and makes it less likely to go low by the end of the meal. Another example of where I might use a square wave is a a dinner party that is going to last a few hours.

[pumper]

Bro,


Exercise, protein metabolism, and muscle growth. [Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140?dopt=abstractplus)

Thanks for these links. I've looked at the abstracts but can't put my hands on the articles (though I might have one final recourse...) If I get any of these articles as PDFs, I'll pass them along.

Another one of interest that I can't put my fingers on...
Nutritional supplementation and resistance exercis...[Can J Appl Physiol. 2000] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11098159?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA)

I'll be looking over these articles in the next few days. I'm curious to see what you think.

Thanks buddy.
Mike

[pumper]

Sorry about the multiple postings...


..look into the effects of Glutamine)

Are you using Glutamine?
What about creatine?
Any other supplements that people like to use?

[Sugarhead]

I am using Creatine (Fusion Purple K), whey/carb mix post workout, Omega 3 when not eating fish, caffine (only because I workout after my morning coffee at 5:30am. I just can't start the day without it. Also insulin is given just before workout is complete if you call that a supplement. I am thinking of a Test booster, but am not sure yet.

[HockeyShot]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie to this thread who has decided to get back into the weight training arena. Up until about 5 years ago my wife and I were very religious about working out and watching our diets. At the time I was 38 yo, 5'9", 185 with minimum body fat. Then a series of unlucky events took me away from the gym; two knee surgeries and being diagnosed as a Type 1.

The diabetes thing left me pretty depressed, between that an the surgeries I lost roughly 20lbs of muscle. Now I've dusted off my old routines and have gotten my butt into the gym.

Looking for discussion/advice on:
1 - handling the lows that occur during lifting sessions
2 - Creatine - "friend or foe"
3 - Supplement powder/post workout drinks
4 - What are the caution areas on lifting w/diabetes

This thread looks like it has some great discussions all ready and I look forward to providing my info/experience in the future.

H.S

[Jamison]

I have a story here...

I was DXd a month and a half ago and I am now 16. I used to be a vegetarian for about 8 years and I started working out to get bigger about a year ago. Before I started working out I was 103 lbs 5'4'', 4% body fat. At my peak, I was 130, 5'6''. Right before I was rushed to the emergency room, I was 115 (my body was really shut out). Now, I am probably in the top shape of my life with about 3% body fat, because of my diet, and 135 lbs and 5'8''. I also have been a runner in the fall season.

[Rob in Iowa]

I am type 1, 44 year, 5'11" 175lbs, 18% BF and lift weights.
I was wondering if there is a way to take insulin with the effect of building muscle faster but not the fat? I want to get leaner and muscular. Thoughts, has anyone tried any approaches?

Sugarhead,
We have a lot in common - I'm a little older at 49, but I am a type 1 and 5'11'. However, I am 235 lbs with 12% body fat.

When I was a pup I ran the 1500 meters at a Big 8 (now Big XII) university. When I graduated I weighed 177 lbs with 4% body fat.

Here is a prescription that our trainers used...
When you want lean, flexible, yet strong muscle, you lift lighter weights at a faster pace with more reps. If you typically bench press 125 three sets of twelve reps at a rate of 3 seconds per rep, drop the weight to 1 set each of 85, 95, 115 for twenty reps at a rate of 2 seconds per rep. Do the same weight sets 3 days a week skipping a day in between - the off day is a perfect time for cardio.

[Sugarhead]

Rob - Thanks for that. Well we are similar but heck man you you got a truck load more muscle than me for sure. I started Tony Horton's P90X two weeks ago and your post is interesting because he does a mix of multiple reps and some low reps with larger weight. I think that should work for muscle gain and leaning out.
Something else I came across was an article about lowering insulin levels before working out. For fat to be released for energy insulin levels needs to be low. I noticed last week I worked out in the morning and did notice some fat loss. This week I worked out more at lunch time and did not notice as much. In the morning my insulin levels should be the lowest of the day. I have heard of working out in the morning before but because of glycogen levels not insulin levels. I think for type 1's it might be a helpful way to use the fat deposits for energy. I am switching back next week to early AM workouts.

[Rob in Iowa]

That's interesting about the timing of the workout. I used to workout at 5:30AM, and I noticed that when I got done my bg was usually 35 points higher than when I started. When school started my older daughter went to college, and that left me with the responsibility of getting the younger one to school. As a result, I switched my workouts to my lunch break (fortunately I am on flex time at work). Here is the kicker... I need to eat about 30g of carbohydrate just to get through the workout, and when I get back to work my bg is around 60. This is true for both my lifting workout and my cardio (I use a spinning class with a very cruel instructor for cardio) I'll have to experiment some more.

[Sugarhead]

Rob - yes that makes sense, from what I have read the liver will release glucose when the muscles signal stress (weight training) is used up you will start to go low. For fat to burn you need higher sugars, I am not sure what level but I am guessing over 100 or 8mmol that should allow fat to be released for energy. I am not really sure about this but its how I am reading the material. I think its right to say if you want to build muscle training after eating and taking insulin and if you want to burn fat then train whle insulin levels are lowest.

[BlueSky]

... For fat to burn you need higher sugars, I am not sure what level but I am guessing over 100 or 8mmol that should allow fat to be released for energy. ...
Are you sure you have got that right :confused: ? When blood sugar goes up, the insulin level rises. And insulin switches lipolysis off. It stops the burning of fat. The lower blood sugar is, the less circulating insulin is required. And the more likely you are to burn fat. This is why losing weight is easier when you eat low-carb. ;)

[Sugarhead]

Blue - no I am not really sure of anything, but maybe we can work through this. The reason Blood Glucose levels raise and stay that way is because there is not enough insulin to bring them down, ie low insulin. In a non-diabetic when blood glucose levels go up after eating or excersising then insulin is released but since natural insulin only has a half life of 8 minutes its gone quickly and lipolysis can start and fat burning will start as the level decreases. I think the problem with injected insulin is the half life time, its got to be over 2 hours. So when we put a heavy demand on our bodies from weights our muscles become more sensitive to insulin and the muscles take up the sugar quickly and he Blood glucose levels drop leaving us in a hypo state or high insulin which switches off lipolysis. Next time I meet with my Endo I will ask her but that is not until the end of May. In the mean time I will use Google to see if I can find out some info. What I am suggesting however is to start the workout with slightly higher blood glucose levels so when it drops you will not be hypo but will not be so low that lipolysis shuts off. Heck it might not even be possible since you would have to know exactly what level all this stuff happens. One more consideration, the reason we are told not to excersise with higher BG is so we don't go into Ketosis when we burn to much fat. I personally check my BG about three times during my workouts, my workouts are generally 60 min (I am doing P90X). Once at the start to make sure they are at a safe level, once about 30 min into it to make sure they have not dropped to far and one at the end before I take the Post workout shake. Often I find the middle one my sugars are low dropping from 6mmol to around 2.9mmol. Then I need to take some sugar stuff to keep them up.

Diabetes really is a journey.

[BlueSky]

... The reason Blood Glucose levels raise and stay that way is because there is not enough insulin to bring them down, ie low insulin. ....
Ok, I can see where you are coming from. But I think it is important to realise that it is the lack of insulin that encourages lipolysis, not high blood glucose. High blood glucose is a secondary effect. If you are dependent on injected insulin, simply raising blood glucose by eating something won't change your insulin levels.

The best way to ensure that insulin levels are low is to not inject it ;) . So if you want to lose weight, it makes sense to eat after working out, rather than beforehand. It would also be better to do resistance exercise first, as it has two desirable effects. One is that it tends to increase blood glucose, which you need in preparation for aerobic exercise. The other is that you will be in fat burning mode by the time you start your cardio work. Because insulin levels are low, the weight should just drop off :D .

[Sugarhead]

Blue - yes you are right it’s about low insulin levels not high BG. I think based on this; it makes sense to do the exercises in the morning before Breakfast. I am pretty sure that is when my insulin levels are the lowest. To bad I am not a morning person!

I actually am doing weights one day then Cardio the next. As far as weights are concerned I am doing splits.

[George83]

Hi fellow lifters, I have a question, I have a small idea of what stabilizer muscles do, but could someone explain it in alittle detail for me and what are some techniques I could use to strengthen them up.

[Scratch]

Hi fellow lifters, I have a question, I have a small idea of what stabilizer muscles do, but could someone explain it in alittle detail for me and what are some techniques I could use to strengthen them up.
What you are hearing about stablizer muscles is probably referring to muscles not directly involved in moving a weight, but are used to maintain the body's stability. For example, if I'm doing a military press, the muscles used to move the weight are mostly the deltoids and triceps to get the arms extended above the head. At the same time however, if I'm doing that standing military press, my core needs to remain steady which requires muscles like the abs and lower back holding, along with the glutes keeping the hips locked, the quads and calves keeping the legs firm underneath you.

My own opinion is the best way to strengthen those muscles for the most part is to do lifts that use them to do that very act of stablization. I think there are situations and times to perform exercises that strengthen those muscles in an isolated fashion, but for the most part people can make more efficient use of their strength training time by using lifts which utilize compound movements.

[Evermont]

...My own opinion is the best way to strengthen those muscles for the most part is to do lifts that use them to do that very act of stablization. I think there are situations and times to perform exercises that strengthen those muscles in an isolated fashion, but for the most part people can make more efficient use of their strength training time by using lifts which utilize compound movements.

I agree Scratch. If I knew someone was planning on taking up hiking but suffered from "weak ankles" where they have a tendency to roll them, I might suggest specific exercises to work the muscles on the inside and outside of the lower legs to help prevent ankle injuries for example. Boots with ankle support are a good idea too - but as an addition, not as a substitute for strong muscles. My lower legs are in better shape than a lot of folks, I think because I hike a lot. So I don't do any specific exercises for that. Hiking is best for me and I'd MUCH rather spend my time soaking in the views from the top rather than making some silly weight go up and down a lot.

[BrianSCohen]

Keith,

Good point that you may need to work stabilizer muscles themselves. Doing the major lifts may just not be enough. I find I have had to work my rotator cuff muscles separately to strengthen my shoulders. Just doing the lifts simply caused strains rather than making the those muscles (and tendons) stronger.

If you have particular movements you are concerned about, we might be able to make some more specific suggestions.