Checkup Today

[Stuboy]

I got my diabetes checkup later on today. Im gonna ask to swap over to levemir from lantus, to see if it's that causing my mood swings and feeling down all the time...

I've had my levels fairy stable for a few weeks now, albeit i've had hypo's, but i haven't been bouncing from them so my levels aren't fluctuating a great deal, i wouldn't have thought it would be enough to cause mood swings like i get.

I was in a pretty good mood this morning before I came into work... now im really annoyed :mad: and there's no real reason for it... everyone who speaks to me seems to be just aggrovating me and it's making me feel really frustrated and i dont know why!! arrhhhggg!!!!

my waking level was 6.7mmol/L

[shiftzor]

Could it just be that you’re still in mourning for your loss of health? It’s taken me a long time to get back to being my former self and even now I still think I have changed. This disease can have a profound effect on people. Good luck

[Stuboy]

i don't think so... i've never been the type of person to get depressed... i usually just get on with things, and i was fine before i started on lantus for the first 3 months using mixtard30... mood wise that is.

On top of the mood swings and feeling low, im so so forgetful. for example... i log my BG results, food and insulin intake in a diary... I can take my BG, then by the time i've opened my dairy and found the right page, written the time down for the entry.... bang, i've forgotten the BG result!! And that happens most of the time!

I printed something out at work earlier, and as soon as i pressed the print button i forgot all about it... i've only jsut realised i printed it when someone just said... hey, this is yours! lol

It's ridiculous!! It cant' hurt to try another insulin.. if it's not that then at least i've ruled it out.

[shiftzor]

I guess it doesn’t harm to change basal, it’s just going to be a lot of work I would imagine with I:C changing en stuff. I guess we are use to that though. ;)

I guess it’s a side issue but why don’t you start using software to store all your data in. Ascensia do winglucofacts + data cable which you can use to download data from your meter; you can then enter diet + insulin shots as well. There are similar pieces of software for other meters I believe. It’s a **** of a lot better than writing it down in a log book, the software gives you graphs for spotting trends etc.

[Subby]

From my experience, different insulins can have big effects on mood and mental functionings.

I took actrapid for years and towards the end, suspected it made me feel generally strung out and depressed. On moving to Novorapid things did change for the better (after the first few days when it felt like some kind of heavy drugs). I figured maybe it was the Actrapid or maybe it was just coincidence.

But a year later I got actrapid dispensed by mistake and due to being remote, had to switch back to it for a couple of days. It immediately caused all the familiar confusion and irritability to return.

On going on the pump recently, I stopped taking Lantus and again, I feel that many overlapping mental functioning effects were removed, especially a feeling of anxiety. Although with the pump came fundamentally different stability so I won't insist on the connection to Lantus - I just suspect it.

God knows what novorapid may do to me in the background but nothing as obvious as the other insulins, and I after all I gotta have some insulin!

So, my response is yes, you may be onto something here. I don't know how much most doctors accept the phenomenon though. Try and insist "just in case" if your doctor poo poos the idea.

[ant hill]

I got my diabetes checkup later on today. Im gonna ask to swap over to levemir from lantus, to see if it's that causing my mood swings and feeling down all the time...
I get this too as I look at from day to day and think "what the" :confused:

I've had my levels fairy stable for a few weeks now, albeit i've had hypo's, but i haven't been bouncing from them so my levels aren't fluctuating a great deal, i wouldn't have thought it would be enough to cause mood swings like i get.
I also get the mood swings too as I have a short fuse to just about any subject that I come across. :(

I was in a pretty good mood this morning before I came into work... now im really annoyed :mad: and there's no real reason for it... everyone who speaks to me seems to be just aggrovating me and it's making me feel really frustrated and i dont know why!! arrhhhggg!!!!
Can this be like the same argument above? and this can be a case of a low??

my waking level was 6.7mmol/L
I wish to have that every morning. :(

[Stuboy]

i've had no lows today, i was 4.2 about 20 minutes ago but i dont consider that a "low" esp. as it's lunch time.

i used to wake on 5.# all the time, so 6.7 is a little higher than i'd like, but it's not out of the main target range so im happy with it.

I've never really been one to loose my rag (temper) all the time or at the snap of a finger, but i can be happy and fine one minute, then miserable/angry/agrovated then next, for no apparent reason!
I've always had a high tollerance for most things, but now i just snap. So this is definatly out of character for me.

Im not sure how much the nurse can do about changing my insulin, im definatly going to talk about it though. I dont know that she can change my prescription or not for something like that, she might have to seek a doctor out to do it. I've never even met my new GP as the old one (didn't see him much either) has retired now.

Plus, if i go to levemir i can get rid of that awful autopen24 and have a decent delivery device for basal! (thought that's not the reason i want to change...)

[Stuboy]

oh yeh... i prefer to log it manually... this way i always have the info i might want to look at to hand and i can log everything whereever i am. I dont have to be near a computer to do it.
I also find that it gives me some motivation to keep the pages filled up with info too.. that's a bit weird but it does help.

I have an ultrasmart meter which could log everything, but the software doesn't work on Windows Vista and like i said, i actually prefer a diary approach.

[Jan B]

Stuboy,

I wish you well & I hope you get support during your doctors visit. Maybe the Levimir is what you've been needing. I know several people aren't convinced the Lantus is causing your irritability, etc., but it's a possibility, and like you said -- at least trying Levimir will rule that in or out!

[kgm0612]

Good luck with your appointment today. Please be sure to let us all know how you made out.

Karen

[Subby]

Stuboy, I don't know the details of what an autopen24 is... but can I simply suggest... get lantus in 10ml vials or 3ml penfills, and use good ol'fashioned syringes. Works a treat. Not the sexiest device but the most flexible in delivery doses you will ever find, no weight to pull on, no dribbling at the end.

Now some people react violently when I recommend syringes to them after they complain about pens in some way. That's fine if you think the idea is wacky or syringes too stone age or stigmatised. But they really are A1 delivery options in my book.

[Stuboy]

I would use a syringe if i needed to... but i dont need to, I currently get my lantus in 10ml Penfil cartridges... they fit the autopen24, a cheap plasticy looking and feeling pen that dials up (but does not dial down if you go too far) and the unit numbers rub off and the pen breaks if you drop it... its' no way near as cool looking and feeling and working as a novopen!

Plus with a pen you only carry the pen... with a syringe yuo'd have to carry a vial as well... and what's to stop the plunger moving in your pocket? I like to carry my pens in my pocket.

I will let you all know how it goes tonight, appt is at 6pm, just over an hour to go.

[Subby]

Lantus+syringe portability was no problem for me. Since I took my Lantus at 10pm it was in the kitchen and I had no need to carry it anywhere (except occasionally if staying over somewhere) I preferred the simplicity of grabbing a syringe, taking the dose, and sticking it in the sharps bin - no fiddly needle tips, no mechanical parts, etc. I'm suppose I'm that kind of guy.

But that's me, you certainly don't need to give reasons to use whatever delivery you like. :) Good karma for the doctors.

[shiftzor]

If you want to change pens then the Lantus SolorStar disposable pen is better than the Autopen24, in my opinion. I have made a few posts about it. ;)

[Gary_W]

If you want to change pens then the Lantus SolorStar disposable pen is better than the Autopen24, in my opinion. I have made a few posts about it. ;)

Another vote for these. Whether or not you should stay with Lantus is a complex and personal decision. If you do stay with it (or come back to it) the Solostar pens are certainly a step in the right direction. Sexy, no. Functional, yes. Autopens are (IMO) horrible and I eventually called my Optipen Pro 'Bob Marley' because it was always jammin'

Please excuse the terrible pun. Best I can do under the circumstances.

Gary

[Leafbear]

Stuboy,

The moods and forgetfulness sound familiar to me. Have you been tested for autoimmune hypothyroidism (low thyroid)? Let us know how it goes on changing the insulin.

Best,
Leafbear

[Stuboy]

Well...i got some levemire to try!

I didn't waste anytime about talking about feeling low and having mood swings... she looked concerned and asked me if i wanted to see a doctor about the mood swings... then i mentioned about trying a different basal, and she agreed, and started talking about the levemir... hey presto i got levemir to try, so i'll try that for a free weeks to see if it makes a difference.

If it doesn't then ill go from there, but if it works for bg's etc then ill keep it, because i kinda like my new red novopen :D

She talked about the solostar pen as well... but she didn't sound like it was any good, "big and bulky" she described it... she said she's show me one but she never did.

She also said that my diary log is excellent and that im doing everything right in what im doing to get my doses right.

Going for another HbA1c this Friday... i hope it's an improvement from my last... 7.8 :(

So on with levemir....

[xMenace]

See? Most endos and Doctors aren't all that bad after all. :cool:

[grace girl]

I hope you'll post extensively about your experience with switching to levimir. I'm strongly considering the same at my next appt. in May, and I'd love to know how it goes for you.

[Stuboy]

I will keep you all posted on any changes i feel. I took the first shot of levemir last night, so it will take a couple of days for the lantus to completely dissapear from my system.

One thing i did notice last night, was that levemir doesn't sting when you inject it! Lantus stung for me...

huh.... odd, the words sting and stung just lost all complete meaning... lol

[Stuboy]

so far today i've been high most of the time...

I know i've only taken two shots of levemir... but could it take an effect that quickly that it may alter my insulin to carb ratio???

I've only been injecting what i'd normally have for breakfast and lunch and i've been high...

two hours after breakfast i was 12.7!!!!
two hours after lunch i was 6.8 which is great, but 2 hours later (now) im 10.1!!

I dont know where the highs have come from...

Not enough levemir?
still, only day 1, need to assess this over a 3 day period between changes i think...

[BlueSky]

so far today i've been high most of the time... I dont know where the highs have come from...

Not enough levemir? ....
According to the research nurse who did clinical trials on Levimer at our local diabetes clinic, Levemir is not as strong as Lantus. Patients needed 20% more of it to achieve the same result. So, yes, it sounds like you need to increase the dose.

[Stuboy]

ok, that's interesting, thanks...

I did ask if there would be a difference in doses and she said no...

so if i ned 20% more, i currently take 9u in the morning and 9u in the evening. so an extra 1.8u each dose?

ill give it another day of so to "settle in" then decided if i need to go to 11u each dose.

Thanks

[Gary_W]

As Levemir has got such a different profile, it could just be that the way Lantus peaked for you helped out the meals wheras the Levemir isn't doing so. Basal testing will help. BlueSky's 20% point is interesting. I didn't know that one, but as I've not tried Levemir I guess that shouldn't surprise me :)

[Stuboy]

I've been higher than usual again this morning after breakfast and before lunch, 9.4 and 9.6. I stayed on 9u last night at 10pm, and i've gone up to 10u at 10am this morning.

I should see a steady decrease in numbers this evening, if it's not enough i'll go to 11u at 10am.

Levemir definately stings less than Lantus.

[Funnygrl]

I never had good luck with Levemir.

I personally don't believe Lantus can cause depression because of it's pH. By that theory, so can drinking orange juice. Or consuming anything who's pH isn't between 6.35 and 6.45.

Good luck though. I'm sure it's possible to get in control of Levemir, and many have.

[Stuboy]

Well it's been over a week now since i made the transition from Lantus to Levemir so thought i'd update.

I am actually *starting* to feel better within myself. I'm also *starting* to find it easier to concentrate at work (when certain people aren't yapping on on the phone and generally making a noise)

I haven't had so many mood swings lately either.

I think i've finally found the right doses for morning and evening now as well, and im pretty sure i've got my bolus ratio right now too 15:1.

Using 15:1 on Lantus working working and i was going to change to 16:1 but then changed to levemir and the 15:1 ratio seems to be spot on now.

So far so good! :D Im finding control easier and more predictable with Levemir than I did with lantus.

[Subby]

Way to go! Congrats :)