Low carbing and cholesterol results

[Jan B]

FYI . . . . My A1c went from 8 to 6.1 with low carbing . . . . . .

BUT, I got a major shock yesterday. My last cholesterol test about 4 months ago was a total of 141 (HDL 59, LDL 69); yesterday I found out my current total is 274. (Kidney function did not change. They call it "stable".) They did not tell me what triglycerides were . . . it was 66 last time (supposed to be under 150). Before this, I've never had a total cholesterol over 170.

HDL should be 50 or higher -- mine is 92 (was 59)
LDL should be, well they said 130 or less (even better under 100) and mine is 170 (was 69)

The comment from the nurse was, better start taking your Zocor (I had quit). Before the 141 total cholesterol, I had only sporadically been taking the Zocor.

Help! I also requested the VAP test (further breakdown of cholesterol) and haven't gotten those results . . . I need to call again.

[fgummett]

So if I read correctly, A1c excellent :) ...but horrible LDL..? Do you put that down to the low carbs (I'm assuming higher protein) or skipping the Zocor?

I'm asking 'cos I am interested in the low carb ideas here but I also have the unholy lipids to manage :o

---

Sorry just read again (too many number for my feeble faculties to handle all in one go) and see your HDL is off as well... ouch! Again, do you attribute this to the lack of a statin or an higher protein/fat diet?

[Jan B]

Frank,

I contribute this to not taking the Zocor, but even more to going from extremely low fat & vegetarian (10-15 grams daily) to very high fat (probably 60g) & protein (I did lose 7 pounds, not even trying).

Something I copied and pasted:

LDL should be less than 100. LDL increases your risk of heart problems, so the lower your LDL, the better. A level of 160 or above is high.
HDL should be more than 40. HDL over 60 helps protect against a heart attack. HDL below 40 increases your risk of heart problems. The higher your HDL, the better. A high HDL number can help offset a high LDL number.
Triglycerides should be less than 150. A level above 150 may increase your risk for heart problems.
-------------------

The ratio is sometimes considered more important than total cholesterol (divide total by HDL). The number should be less than 4 (mine is about 3; last time is was 2.4).

[BlueSky]

Jan,

It is not unusual for LDL to increase after starting a low carb diet. This a temporary adjustment. As you become fat adapted, LDL settles down and returns to its pre-low carb levels. It takes up to 6 months but can be much quicker. This happened with me and seems to be the general experience at these low-carb forums (you know thw ones I mean ...). Persisting with a low-carb diet will improve your lipid profile, not that there was anything wrong with it in the first place.

Low carbing has boosted your HDL from 59 to 92, which is great. It pretty much counteracts the increase in LDL as far as heart disease risk is concerned, anyway. Your risk ratio (TC/HDL) is 3.0, which is way below the maximum guideline of 4.5. According to this indicator, which has a much stronger predictive value than LDL, your heart disease risk is extremely low. You have nothing to worry about. You certainly don't need to take Zocor.

I have done a lot of research on this because my doctor also bugged me to take statins. He now accepts that my lipid profile doesn't warrant drug treatment, thanks to low carb eating. BTW, your triglycerides work out to 60 ((274-170-92)*5), which is good. Keep up the good work, and don't panic!

[Jan B]

I love Blue Sky! Thanks friend! I know you are right -- plus I learned something about figuring out the triglycerides.

[fgummett]

You know Jan.. the first read through I thought your HDL was good (yes HDL is the good kind and higher is better).. I should have stuck with my gut (hah!) reaction :D

So a fantastic A1c, even better HDL and just a temporarily lousy LDL which as has been pointed out is offset by your high HDL. I also read that the ratio is important :star:

When you say very high fat... like what?

I'm currently on a statin but I am trying the low carb approach (early days yet) but it sure would be great to drop one of my pills (and not have to get my son to search for it under the couch :D )

[Jan B]

By very high fat . . . . I don't actually count grams but my WAG is from 40-60 grams daily. I need to really count to know (which I will start). I'd always heard we don't need more than 25 grams of fat per day.

For many years, it was stuck in my head that fat makes you fat, so I avoided it like the plague. However, once in a while I'd eat more fat and lose weight, which seemed strange. The last 3 months I actually proved to myself that fat does not make you fat, since I actually lost weight eating more fat and lots fewer carbs. Good Calories Bad Calories is a very good book by Gary Taubes I would suggest anyone read who thinks fat makes you fat, and who wants to understand the low-fat mantra that is preached. (Not getting the link posted.)

I also have a friend down the street trying hard to lose weight, and she has plateaued with 60 lbs. left to go. Her house is full of no-fat everything and tons of little "1 point" 15 carb snacks. I do know a few people who have experienced adding fat, reducing carbs and it's so cool watching the light turn on to a little more truth that fat (in general -- I know there are different types of fats) is not the enemy!

[fgummett]

Thanks Jan I'll have to look up that book :)

I was also wondering what kind of fats: healthy like EVOO, Avocado, Nuts, Salmon... or just general fats as a a result of eating more protein/meats..?

[Jan B]

Good question -- I'm sorry I'm not being more thorough! Most of my fat is from nut butters (primarily peanut and almond) and nuts. One of my favorite treats (not often) is sausage on a stick. Also EVOO . . I do eat cheese of all kinds (the lowest carb/ignore the fat, unless you can get low carb AND low fat). I love eggs. I mostly eat fish and turkey and maybe once a week some good red meat. One of my favorite treats is peanut or almond butter mixed w/the lowest carb fruit jelly or fruit I can find. When you get used to it, it's better without the bread IMO.

I'm not eating hardly any starches (actually none), but eat lots of green vegetables, especially spinach and other greens.

[BlueSky]

... I was also wondering what kind of fats: healthy like EVOO, Avocado, Nuts, Salmon... or just general fats as a a result of eating more protein/meats..?
You will find endless debate on that topic. The popular school of thought is that saturated fat is bad because it leads to heart disease. People like Mary Enig and Gary Taubes dispute this convincingly. I certainly don't buy into it and I don't think Jan does either ....

The only kind of fat that you should be avoiding is partially hdrogenated vegetables oils (trans fat). These are unsaturated fats that are hydrogenated to stop them going rancid. It extends the shelf life of processed foods, but has nasty effects on health.

From a health perspective, it is important that you get a lot of omega 3 fatty acids from the fats you consume. A major concern is the decline in omega 3 content in our food because of modern production techniques. Traditionally, the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fats in the diet was about 1:2. That ratio has changed to about 1:6 in modern times, and it is believed to be the cause of various health problems. Flax seed oil and fish oil are are good sources of omega 3. You also get more of it from beef that has been grass fed, rather than grain fed. Eggs from free-range chickens are also richer in omega 3 than eggs from grain-fed battery chickens.

I don't think too much about what I should and shouldn't eat. I don't limit fat, except for trans fat. I eat all the fat that comes with protein foods - meat, fish, chicken, eggs, cheese etc. We are fortunate in that New Zealand livestock is grass fed. And I always buy free-range eggs. In addition to the eggs having a better essential fatty acid ratio, free-range chickens have much more fun!

[fgummett]

Many thanks Jan and BlueSky... plenty for me to chew on :)

[kgm0612]

I've had A1c's ranging from 5.8 to 7.3 over the last 5 years and cholesterol ranging from excellent to poor. I started out on Lipitor and stayed on that for 6 or 7 years and a year ago switched over to Crestor. My cholesterol is much better, as long as I remember to take my medication every night before bed!

Karen

[kidvid]

[QUOTE=Jan B;328494]FYI . . . . My A1c went from 8 to 6.1 with low carbing . . . . . .

BUT, I got a major shock yesterday. My last cholesterol test about 4 months ago was a total of 141 (HDL 59, LDL 69); yesterday I found out my current total is 274. (Kidney function did not change. They call it "stable".) They did not tell me what triglycerides were . . . it was 66 last time (supposed to be under 150). Before this, I've never had a total cholesterol over 170.

QUOTE]

Just another opinion here...but I'd get back on Zocor. Real research says your diet contributes ONLY 10-15 percent to your cholesterol levels. Few fats are good for you. And you don't have to eat a lot of fat to go low carb.

Statins are a proven answer. Why contrive another solution?

Joe

[ant hill]

FYI . . . . My A1c went from 8 to 6.1 with low carbing . . . . . .
Yay!!! :party:

BUT, I got a major shock yesterday. My last cholesterol test about 4 months ago was a total of 141 (HDL 59, LDL 69); yesterday I found out my current total is 274. (Kidney function did not change. They call it "stable".) They did not tell me what triglycerides were . . . it was 66 last time (supposed to be under 150). Before this, I've never had a total cholesterol over 170.
I'm sorry Jan, We try so hard do we?

HDL should be 50 or higher -- mine is 92 (was 59)
LDL should be, well they said 130 or less (even better under 100) and mine is 170 (was 69)
:(
The comment from the nurse was, better start taking your Zocor (I had quit). Before the 141 total cholesterol, I had only sporadically been taking the Zocor.
You are like me Jan as I was to take Zocor and decided not to take it.

Jan,

It is not unusual for LDL to increase after starting a low carb diet. This a temporary adjustment. As you become fat adapted, LDL settles down and returns to its pre-low carb levels. It takes up to 6 months but can be much quicker. This happened with me and seems to be the general experience at these low-carb forums (you know thw ones I mean ...). Persisting with a low-carb diet will improve your lipid profile, not that there was anything wrong with it in the first place.
Thankyou BlueSky. :D The way to go "Low carbing" :)

Low carbing has boosted your HDL from 59 to 92, which is great. It pretty much counteracts the increase in LDL as far as heart disease risk is concerned, anyway. Your risk ratio (TC/HDL) is 3.0, which is way below the maximum guideline of 4.5. According to this indicator, which has a much stronger predictive value than LDL, your heart disease risk is extremely low. You have nothing to worry about. You certainly don't need to take Zocor.
That's very interesting to see that there is a lot of variation to the fact that doctors generalize the notion that as you get older to take such drugs. :confused:

your triglycerides work out to 60 ((274-170-92)*5), which is good. Keep up the good work, and don't panic!
BlueSky, What are the values to this calculation. And thanks. :)

I was also wondering what kind of fats: healthy like EVOO, Avocado, Nuts, Salmon... or just general fats as a a result of eating more protein/meats..?

I am on the belief that plant fats are better for you than animal fats so I could easily live in Canada!! :D

I'm not eating hardly any starches (actually none), but eat lots of green vegetables, especially spinach and other greens.

And that's what I need to do to eat more of the bright colored stuff.

Many thanks Jan and BlueSky... plenty for me to chew on :)

Heh, Me too Frank. :)

Statins are a proven answer. Why contrive another solution?

Joe

If we can do without drugs and their side affects the better off we are as the mouth is so designed to eat food, Not drugs. ;)

[BlueSky]

... BlueSky, What are the values to this calculation. And thanks. :)
Peter,

You were refering to this calculation :
... your triglycerides work out to 60 ((274-170-92)*5), which is good...
It is based on the formula :

Total cholesterol = LDL + HDL + (Triglycerides/5)

If you don't know triglycerides but you know all the other values, you can work it out by re-organising the formula :

Tiglycerides = (Total cholesterol - LDL - HDL)*5 :)