Looking Back

[Ronman]

I am currently dealing with Dawn Phenomenon. I have been testing and recording my blood readings three times daily for the past 4 years. When I look back at my readings from 2004, I see that my afternoon and evening readings are quite similar to what they currently are. What bothers me are my morning readings. Four years ago, they were often in the 90-120 range. Now they are never below 150 and often as high as 200. Should I assume that this is a result of the progressive nature of this disease? Why are my other readings so similar to the ones in the past? I am on Metformin now, which I wasn't taking 4 years ago. I don't think this bodes well for the future. Any ideas?

[Penny]

I cannot get my fasting numbers down either. My doctor just keeps telling me to increase my insulin. If I test between 4 and 5 hours after my Lantus shot, I can almost be too low. After that, the numbers keep climbing. This always irritates me on checkup day....the longer I fast, the higher the number is, and by the time I see my doctor I can be 150 or more. Then they look at me strangely when I tell them I am fasting! I also find my numbers follow a pattern....high in the mornings, lower in the afternoon through early evening. I need more Novolog if I eat later in the evenings. You may be ready for some insulin.

[rmichaud]

Penny, go here and look at "When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation" You may just be taking TOO MUCH Lantus! I was. I lowered my night dose by 4 units and my morning BS went down.

Diabetes Update: When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation (http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2008/05/when-going-low-makes-you-go-high.html)

[xMenace]

Penny, go here and look at "When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation" You may just be taking TOO MUCH Lantus! I was. I lowered my night dose by 4 units and my morning BS went down.

Diabetes Update: When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation (http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2008/05/when-going-low-makes-you-go-high.html)


The Symogi effect may be at work for some, but only pumping has helped me. My basal pattern works the same no matter what I do.

Yes Ronman, it sounds like a Dr. visit is in order.

[Penny]

Penny, go here and look at "When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation" You may just be taking TOO MUCH Lantus! I was. I lowered my night dose by 4 units and my morning BS went down.

Diabetes Update: When Going Low Makes You Go High: Mysteries of Counterregulation (http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2008/05/when-going-low-makes-you-go-high.html)

Going to print this out and take to the doctor with me next time. I do wake around 4, sweating and heart pounding.

[adiantum]

Should I assume that this is a result of the progressive nature of this disease? Any ideas?

I'm wondering this myself. I dont take meds, & worry that I'll have to debate this with my GP .

My usual morning readings have been between 4 & 5.4 but this week they have increased to 7's ( 135 - 142 )
I've stopped my evening walks because of the weather, so maybe this is the cause?
Or, is it a sign that my honeymoon period is over & the disease has progressed?

[jacobsam622]

I am currently dealing with Dawn Phenomenon. I have been testing and recording my blood readings three times daily for the past 4 years. When I look back at my readings from 2004, I see that my afternoon and evening readings are quite similar to what they currently are. What bothers me are my morning readings. Four years ago, they were often in the 90-120 range. Now they are never below 150 and often as high as 200. Should I assume that this is a result of the progressive nature of this disease? Why are my other readings so similar to the ones in the past? I am on Metformin now, which I wasn't taking 4 years ago. I don't think this bodes well for the future. Any ideas?First Question is how long do you sleep? The more you sleep the worse the morning bg will be. First exercise in the PM, second never go to bed with your bg below 120. If you start out the night with low bg as your numbers go down the amount of glucose the liver produces will go up causing hour bg to rise I eat snack about an hour before bed and the a handful of cashews right before I go to sleep.

[Hammer]

First Question is how long do you sleep? The more you sleep the worse the morning bg will be. First exercise in the PM, second never go to bed with your bg below 120.


I'm curious about these two comments. I sleep for long periods of time. Sometimes I'll get 7 hours of sleep, the next day I might get 12 hours of sleep. My morning numbers are always about the same.

The same applies to my numbers before I go to bed. My numbers are always below 120, and when I get up the next day, they will have gone up 5 to 10 points, which I feel is okay.

I'm just curious because this is the second time I've seen this mentioned so I thought I'd ask about it.

[jacobsam622]

I'm curious about these two comments. I sleep for long periods of time. Sometimes I'll get 7 hours of sleep, the next day I might get 12 hours of sleep. My morning numbers are always about the same.

The same applies to my numbers before I go to bed. My numbers are always below 120, and when I get up the next day, they will have gone up 5 to 10 points, which I feel is okay.

I'm just curious because this is the second time I've seen this mentioned so I thought I'd ask about it.
There are two reason I said this; The first is that your liver is producing glucose during the night because you went to bed with low bg and as soon as your bg go's below a curtain number your liver puts out glucose to keep you from bottoming out. Second if you are taking any of the sulfonylureas class meds before bed It will bring down you bg. Now if you sleep longer the chances that your liver will produce to much glucose increases because the drug can lowers the bg beyond what the liver considers safe. People taking Metformin, Byetta or any of the other drugs designed to stop the liver from producing glucose during night will not see this as much. Now these are general rules they do not apply to everybody. During the week I sleep about five hours and my bg is below 140 most of time and good amount of the time below 120. On week-ends my bg can be as high as 150 depending on how long I sleep. There is no universally accepted approach to the dawn effect.

[BrianSCohen]

Oh no the dreaded Dawn Pheno again. I wish I could figure this thing out as well. For me I am high in the morning, usually 110-120 mg/dL. I don't go low at night, I have checked. If I rise right away (bolt out of bed) it is usually a little lower. Laze around and I just seem to lay there dripping glucose out of my liver, going higher and higher.

I have basically decided, I just have some sort of pancreatic dysfunction with insulin and glucagon. My body just signals away in the morning, "MORE BLOOD SUGAR", when obviously, I am doing just fine.

I've tried various kinds of snacks in the evening. Increased evening medication. And a variety of other things. The thing which is most successful involves a large glass and a bottle of dry red wine. Take one or two glasses of wine before bed and it keeps my liver occupied all night.

[Ronman]

To answer the question, I generally get about 7 hours of sleep a night on weeknights and significantly less on weekends. I usuallly walk 3.5 to 4 miles every evening when I get home from work and then eat a light supper. My evening numbers are usually in a decent range for me (90-130) and I take 500mg of Metformin when I get home from work, when I got to bed, and when I get up in the morning. I hate Metformin, because I have to deal with just about every possible side effect and I will stop taking it when my current supply runs out and switch to Actos. Hopefully I will have better luck with it.