Carbs vs Sugar-new to this and need advice

[jenlynn]

Hello,
My boyfriend who is type II and newly diagnosed is still getting fasting BG of 230 sometimes when waking in the AM. He has been on metformin for 5 weeks now 2x per day 500 mg. He is doing well on diet and starting to exercise. Still seems to me it should be down more. Also he is trying to keep low on carbs. I have been reading the labels to everthing. Some things are low in carbs but sugar will seem a little too high. What do we want to keep sugar down to? We are paying close attention to carbs but what about sugar grams? He is eating whole wheat bagels, breads, tortilla's. He has talked to a dietician so he is trying to follow her suggestion of 15 grams of carbs for snacks and 30-40 for each meal (Breakfast lunch and diner)...

[princesslinda]

If his fasting #s are still that high, i'd encourage him to avoid bagels, breads and tortillas, even the whole wheat kind, at least until his levels normalize. It can take metformin up to 3 weeks to reach optimal results, but he should be seeing gradual improvement in his #s.

I'd suggest that since his a.m. #s are so high, that he have some type of eggs and bacon (or egg substitute and turkey bacon) for b/fast, no bread. This will keep it from going higher post meals.

Also, regular testing (2 hrs after first bite of food) is very important, as this is the ONLY WAY he will know how various foods affect his blood sugars.

I met with the dietitian shortly after diagnosis, and was told about the same thing he was. I soon realized that eating that many carbs was not going to give me the #s I wanted.

[pdxdennisj]

Not sure from reading your post if you are clear that sugar is a form of carbohydrate. When you look on a food label and see 29 grams carbs and 19 grams sugar that means that 19 of the 29 grams of carbs are sugar and 10 grams of carbs is other stuff. It is not really necessary to count sugar carbs, just overall carbs. I aim for 40 or less grams of carbs per meal (note the meds I am on to control that). I have been Diabetic for 20 years and had to start insulin about 3.5 years ago.

[rmichaud]

BAGELS=BAD!!! Make my BS skyrocket, doesn't matter if they are wheat, still very high in carbs!

[xMenace]

The only bread that behaves is the bread I make. I use 75% multi-grain and 25% white flour. I've only ever found one store bought or bakery bread that worked well. It was a flax bread, but it was pretty bland. I'm convinced most wheat breads have a high refined wheat content, say 50% or more. There's also HFCS and sugar alcohols to contend with.

[Janlaton]

Has he met with a dietian yet? If not plan to go with him when he does. If he does not want you to make your own appointment. This is one of the best ways to learn.

What type exercise is he getting? How late at night is he eating? My doc says do not eat past 7 pm unless it is very lite snack. THis has brought my am #S down tremendously.

Welcome. Ask more questions, give more info and we will try to help all we can.

Praying things will go well.

[MJB]

"... her suggestion of 15 grams of carbs for snacks and 30-40 for each meal (Breakfast lunch and diner)..."

That's about what I do and it works well for me. The exercise is very important, even if it's only a half hour walk.

And..........we're all different so YMMV.

[Scrabblechick]

Right on, Mike. Jenlynn, I'd echo the advice you've received here, and encourage your boyfriend to cut down on bread, rice, pasta, tortillas, etc. to get his numbers down. Testing often is also critical, as has also been mentioned.

Another good way to help bring those morning #s down is to have a small, protein-y snack before bedtime. He could eat a piece of cheese, some lunchmeat, or something like that. I've found the late protein snack gives my liver something to do overnight besides dump glucose!

I've said frequently I didn't start seeing numbers I really liked until I'd been on the Metformin about 6 weeks. As Mike said, everyone is different.

A good goal to aim for is BG levels of under 140 2 hours after eating. It may take a while to get to this level, but it is attainable. I try to shoot for 100 grams of carbs per day. Some days I make it, some days I don't. I try to stay in that neighborhood, though. Read labels! That's a big help in determining what is good and what isn't.

And of course, exercise. A 25-minute walk can bring down BG levels 50 or more points! It works. :)

[Chollyred]

Hi Jenlynn.
Sounds like your boyfriend is a big bread eater (like me). There are several brands of bread that are lower in carbs and sugar. One that I've found particularly good is Nature's Own Whole Wheat with Double Fiber, and Ole' Foods (several brand names) Low Carb or Extreme Fiber tortillas. They don't seem to spike my numbers at all. I still eat a fair amount of overall carbs, but most all are from high fiber veggies and breads. My morning numbers are stable at 90-100 every morning. My post meal numbers didn't stabilize until I started a pretty fair daily excercise routine. Now unless I do something stupid like eat pizza or mexican, my post meal numbers are usually below 120. The highest reading I've had in the past 3 months was 160 after pizza.

"White ain't right" seems to be a pretty good indicator of foods to avoid. My doctor says to avoid anything white (anything made of white flour, rice, potatoes, and most pastas). Seems to have worked well for me so far....

[davef]

Hi Jenlynn,

Welcome to the forums, you have been given some good advice about carbs. I tend to avoid things like pasta, white bread, rice and potatoes. I would suggest getting the book "The first year: Type 2 Diabetes by Gretchen Becker" which was recommended to me when I joined the forums. It's very informative and easy to read.

As Linda mentioned, testing is extremely important. When I was diagnosed 6 months ago I was told to test twice a day and while that is better than no testing it won't help learning what foods work and which don't. So test, test, test, it has really helped me get my blood glucose under control.

Perhaps your boyfriend would like to join us on the forums, it really is great to have people who understand what he is going through to talk to. I attribute a lot of my success to being on the forums.

[kgm0612]

x-Menace............care to share your bread recipe if you haven't already? I'm assuming you bake it in a bread maker?

Karen

[jacobsam622]

Your boy friend needs to change his eating life style. Here are a few pointers.

The ADA feels that only type-1s should maintain tight control. They feel Type-2 can’t handle the added emotional responsibility of maintaining tight control and deal with all the other issues. I strongly disagree It’s your life you should be the one to take control and you do that by testing.
Test before and after every meal.

If you eat something that makes your bg go up high exercise as long as the bg reading is below 275. If your bg goes above 275 either drink a glass of red wine, shot of spirit’s or lots of water.

Test 2 hours after meal.

Your bg goals
Morning below 130 -----------------------ideal around 95 - 110
2 hours after meals below 140 ---------ideal below 120
Before bed below 140--------------------ideal 120 to 130
Never go to bed with bg below a 100 when you wake up your bg will be =>130.
As gain more control the number should get tighter.

To determine carbs subtract fiber from the total carbs. You can also subtract artificial sweeteners.

Traditional wisdom says = Portion control is a must and do not get seconds. I like my way better get smaller portions that way you can get seconds it is an old Jedi Mind trick

Some Fats are good we need them for healthy cholesterol. Mono and poly are good.
Trans fat and saturated fat are bad.

Low fat foods are not good for diabetes because they replace fat with sugars

Foods you can eat;

Meat = Beef well trimmed, chicken, fish broiled or baked, eggs, hotdogs without bun.

Nuts - most nuts are low in carbs, peanuts, walnuts, cashews, and almonds any that have total carbs of less then 10g.

spreads buy no sugar added jelly or try one of several reduced sugar brands , no sugar added Peanut butter – good for cholesterol

vegetables = Small kernel corn on the cob. Eat lots of Green beans it raises good cholesterol. Broccoli, cauliflower, squash, celery,

Sugar free ice cream or no sugar added, sugar free jell-o

Chocolate that has a cocoa % >= 60% or low carb chocolate

Breads = whole grain or low carb whole grain. I try to find bread that have less then 7 grams of carbs per slice. Pepperidge farms have several brands in the 5g per slice range.

Pasta = whole grain: “Dreamfields”, Another good brand is “Barilla Plus” whole grain pasta the penne pasta is pretty good.

Rice = brown rice, wild rice

sodas = diet only

Alcohol = Low carb beer, brands like Michelob ultra, Miller-Lite, there is at least two others. Red wine or wine that is at least 13% alcohol
I like the four wise-men: Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Jose Cuervo, Johnny Walker


Avoid high carb food any anything with a lot of refined sugar or white flour

Fruit = try different ones to see how they effect your BS. Remember a sugar is sugar no matter how big or how small. Avoid fruit high in fructose

if you have acid reflux avoid eating fruit at meal time.

General rule if it’s brown then its OK for diabetes

Never go to sleep with a low Blood glucose level when you wake up your bg will be really high. You have choice eat a small snack like a hand full of peanuts or drink a glass of red wine or a low carb beer. The trick is to convince your liver not to dump a load of glucose into your system. I recommend you read the sugar busters book.




HbA1c Avg. Blood Sugar
(%) (mmol/L) (mg/dL)
4----- 3.3------ 60
5----- 5.0------ 90
6 -----6.7------ 120
7----- 8.3------ 150
8----- 10.0----- 180
9 -----11.7----- 210
10---- 13.3---- 240
11 ----15.0---- 270
12----- 16.7--- 300
13----- 18.3--- 330
14------ 20.0-- 360
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[jerryn]

If his fasting levels are @ 240 let his doc know! He's probably got a fatty liver. Or.. try a handful of nuts before bed. Sometimes a small shot glass of wine or brandy helps too. Not sure if it's a good thing to test when on Metformin. I take that too and Metformin beats up the liver big time. I did go off metformin for a day and tried it, it does work. When I wake up I'm usually around 150-160. When I tried a small cup of wine. I was at 127 at wake up but the endo put me on 1 500mg of metformin @ morning and 3 500mg metformin @ supper time.
Good Luck!