Remember my Human Rights Case?

[soso]

http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/restaurant-eating/24786-my-turn-get-dissed.html


The BC Human Rights Tribunal is going ahead with the case against the Restaurant... they have given me legal representation and I go to see the lawyer on Monday....

Man, I would have loved to see her face when she got the paperwork.... probably won't get heard till next year though....

[teleman]

People like that are infuriating when you're just looking out for your health and well being. They're the sort of people who serve watered down Coke when you ask for Diet Coke and laugh(I've actually experienced that one)
Let us know how this turns out.

[Scrabblechick]

Oh, I REALLY want to know what happens with this, Soso! And now that you've filed a complaint, call the newspaper. They will probably be interested in your story.

H-e-l-l hath no fury like a dissed diabetic!! LOL.

[Mich]

Sheesh. It would have been so easy for her to deal with it in the beginning. Your point about the nut allergy as a good one.

Well, you could always whip out a urine testing stick and dip it into a sample of dressing. Wait! That would have been as rude as she was...

Good luck in educating this dolt. And thanks. Each time one of us takes the time, it makes it better for all of us.

Mich

[morrisma]

just 'desserts' I hope!
Mike

[soso]

Hahahaa..I hope so...
bad enough she was so miserable about it, she never replied to my letter and hasn't replied to the claim yet, which she has until June 17 to respond (30 days from when they accepted the case) personally I don't think she will..I think she will just ignore the whole thing.. Not sure if she will be legally obliged to attend, or if it will just proceed without her.
She prolly realizes she is hooped as she knows I have 2 witnesses.
I doubt she would have given me a sample of her precious dressing and imagine the high jinks if she had seen me conducting "tests" on it! She would have been sure then that I was a spy.....

[Evermont]

Prevention is always better right? It makes sense to me to mandate some basic education for anyone seeking a new or renewal license to run an eating establishment. Just a 1/2 day class about serving the public, allergies, diabetes, etc. and how to respond to questions about food content. This seems like basic stuff.

Top-secret-sugar-laden-dressing-queen could get her head screwed on straight before the doors ever open.

Almost anything would seem better than after-the-fact legal govt. action. I'm just trying to make sense here, I get carried away sometimes.

[fgummett]

I hope that one day we can get nutritional info at every eating establishment so that everybody (not just those with D) can make healthy choices :)

[gettingby]

I'm sure you will win hands down, Soso.
Please keep us updated. I would love to know how this all unfolds.

[soso]

The bloke I spoke to at the Human Rights Tribunal seemed very sure she done me wrong...lol....
I laugh now, but it does really burn my ***... I sent her a load of info to try to get her to see the pettyness of her stance but I doubt she even read it..
I do have a friend who works for the local paper so I might see if they are interested in the case too...

[HelenM]

I hope that one day we can get nutritional info at every eating establishment so that everybody (not just those with D) can make healthy choices

Is that really possible or desirable?
Most of my local restaurants are very tiny enterprises. They have a few standard items (mostly steak or duck) and a table de jour which varies according to market availability. I've often wandered around the market noting that there a lot of asparagus, or ceps or cherries and gone into a restaurant and found them on the menu. Its a million miles from the big restaurant chains
These people aren't nutritional experts and nor would I expect them to be.
That said I've always had reasonable answers when I ask whats in a dish and quite frequently offers of substitution when possible..

[Keezheekoni]

I hope that one day we can get nutritional info at every eating establishment so that everybody (not just those with D) can make healthy choices :)Is that really possible or desirable?

Actually it is the law in the state of Washington to have nutritional information at every restaurant. I thought it was a nationwide law, but apparently it's not. A lot of restaurants here don't have the information in the store itself but it's on their websites. The state has told them they all have until Jan. 1, 2009, to get the nutrition information in printed form on their premises.

I'm really happy about this. Not only for the carb information, but also because I'm allergic to a lot of foods. If I go to a restaurant I have to make sure that none of my food gets cooked in the same pans as mushrooms, fish and shellfish, eggplant, and avocado. I get anaphylaxis almost immediately with all of those foods. Mushrooms take a little longer for my body to react, but my tongue goes numb right away, as well as my throat. My throat will close off and cause me to stop breathing within 2 minutes with all of these foods.

The thing that I really don't like is that some companies will not realize that even if the item was only used to make a stock that people with allergies will still react. Unfortunately a lot of the stocks that restaurants use have mushrooms in them. Even after they've removed the ingredients taht were used to make the stock, you can't be sure that *everything* got out of that stock. I will react. It sucks. :(

Great, I just remembered I need to get a new script for epipens...thanks!

[soso]

That's what I don't understand, if she had not wanted to tell me, why didn't she just say "I don't know"... I would have been OK with that. She def had some sort of axe to grind.
Usually in smaller places (though this place was actually quite large and busy) they will say something like, I think so, it is a bit sweet.. or maybe yes, we add a little honey..etc... one reason I am so careful on dressings is that I have come unstuck there loads of times, also there is a penchant here for mixing raspberry jam with oil and vinegar and calling it raspberry vinigrette...

[fgummett]

Is that really possible or desirable?
Most of my local restaurants are very tiny enterprises. They have a few standard items (mostly steak or duck) and a table de jour which varies according to market availability. I've often wandered around the market noting that there a lot of asparagus, or ceps or cherries and gone into a restaurant and found them on the menu. Its a million miles from the big restaurant chains
These people aren't nutritional experts and nor would I expect them to be.I had the same thought Helen... the big chains with a fixed menu should be doing this already without question. The small family run restaurant is a different matter, but as you say, they are often more flexible and usually will go out of their way to accommodate individual requirements.
By the way, I envy you and the real French food you have access to :) Although I guess in France they don't call it French food :D

[notme]

Wouldn't a small taste on your finger told you if the dressing was too sweet?

I agree the lady was rude. I wonder if it is worth the time and effort just to make your point? Generally, if it is a small establishment, they aren't going to use splenda to sweeten a dressing. I think I might have just chosen oil and vinegar and gone on with the day.

[howdysf]

I agree w/ you NotMe... it's seems like a lot of energy to spend just because you had a bad encounter with one snotty kid...plus, do you really want to ruin someone's business and, thus, their lives because they wouldn't give you a salad dressing recipe? You should assume it's loaded w/ sugar and fat anyway..it's just common sense! :)

[Funnygrl]

I was thinking I was being overboard by getting a lawyer involved for being denied my glucometer & sugar in the NCLEX exam...

[soso]

well, that's the whole thing really... it wasn't really the salad dressing thing perse.. she was really mean about it and basically made me look like a bloody idiot for asking.. I DID have oil and vinegar which I don't like, but I asked about the Ceaser dressing as it is often OK and I do like it... she just got really obstreperous about it and was sort of laughing and sneering at me. Even then I would have just let it go, but she made a point of coming up to the table afterwards and engaging me in an argument about it. She did not visit any other tables and said several things I found very objectionable...

Let's be clear, I don't expect nutritional lists, don't even mind if people can;t tell me what I want to know, but when someone flat out says, I know—but I'm not telling you and then comes up to the table and basically accuses me of trying to steal their recipes... that's gonna make me mad... It's hard to describe just how aggressive this woman was, I'm usually a who cares sort of person, but even my very mild mannered husband had some choice words about her behaviour.

It is not a tiny establishment at all and no way could this ruin her business (nor would I want to do that) but teach her to be a bit more reasonable? Sure, I'll go for that.
She is not a snotty kid, she is a mature woman who likes embarrassing people.

I probably wouldn't bother if I had to organize it all myself, but the case worker at the HRT does it all.

Just to really outline it again... it is about her behaviour not the recipe for the dressing.. I eat salads out at least once a week.. I guess it's a case of you had to be there...
She was a **tch and now it's my turn..lol...

[Scrabblechick]

She sounds like a bully, and the ONLY way to deal with bully behavior is to call their bluff. If a lawsuit is what it takes, so be it. Maybe she will remember she's in business to serve the customer, not the other way around.

People used to think it was all right to make African-Americans sit in the back of the bus, too. It wasn't hurting them, so what difference did it make? Of course, this isn't exactly the same issue, but it does deal with that kind of mindset.

[duck]

Meh. I hate power-tripping people, so I'm silently cheering you on.

[soso]

Thanks guys... yes, she was bullying me.. part of me thinks why bother, plus I will have to go over to the mainland for the hearing (probably next year).... but then I think, well I've gone this far and she still has not responded in any way, unlikely she will even show up the lawyer said today... Then it takes the Tribunal about 6 months to write up a judgement which would be a slap on the wrist and a monetary award to me for 'loss of dignity' then I would have to get her to pay up.. the lawyer said they would be able to do that for me...
I am getting their services free, so not really any reason not to, they said they could handle the rest of the case for me, but it is so simple I might as well do it myself. Only thing she could do is try to prove I am lying, but as I have 2 witnesses, good luck with that...
Also, if I don't go ahead now, no doubt she would be all gloaty about it.. can't have that...

[soso]

I was thinking I was being overboard by getting a lawyer involved for being denied my glucometer & sugar in the NCLEX exam...

I don't think you are.. that's sort of the problem really, lack of awareness of the reality of our situation.. Like we do it for laughs and giggles.....they really do seem to think it's a personal choice thing...good on you I say.

[IrishJoe]

I'm a big believer in forgiveness however since you have considered the educate the ignorant approach I will just quote my favourite computer game,

"GO FOR THE EYES BOO!, GO FOR THE EYES" (where Boo is a miniature giant space hamster belonging to a berserker warrior)

[CookD]

Thanks guys... yes, she was bullying me.. part of me thinks why bother, plus I will have to go over to the mainland for the hearing (probably next year).... but then I think, well I've gone this far and she still has not responded in any way, unlikely she will even show up the lawyer said today... Then it takes the Tribunal about 6 months to write up a judgement which would be a slap on the wrist and a monetary award to me for 'loss of dignity' then I would have to get her to pay up.. the lawyer said they would be able to do that for me...
I am getting their services free, so not really any reason not to, they said they could handle the rest of the case for me, but it is so simple I might as well do it myself. Only thing she could do is try to prove I am lying, but as I have 2 witnesses, good luck with that...
Also, if I don't go ahead now, no doubt she would be all gloaty about it.. can't have that...
I applaud your actions. Rude egomaniacs need a swift kick in the pants sometimes. Keeps us updated on the case.

[soso]

There have been developments...

On about the last day to reply to the case, I got a call from the owner of the cafe saying she was having the papers delivered to me and could I call her back after I had read them.. I read her case for dismissal, which mostly seemed to centre on the fact that she had seen my posts on this and one other forum and concluded that I was just out to punish her and try to ruin her business and that is why I had filed the claim.. There was some mention of angry mobs ( paraphrasing here as I don't have the docs handy) and I think at one stage I was characterized as "a broken angry woman"... lol... I am not too bitter about this, as I believe all is fair in Love and Litigation....

There was a brief description of the hard work that had gone into the building up of her business, which she shares with her daughter, and some personal stuff about her own and her families health trials, and there was also another page, describing how she had been able to buy a part of a professional computer program that would allow her to be able to tell people some of the nutritional info of her menu, without disclosing anything she considered secret.. she had paid $500 for it, which I thought unfortunate as I think fitday or calorie king would have worked quite well for free.... she mentioned that she was very keen to sit down and talk this out with me.

So I called her back and we talked for a while.. I told her frankly that I had been embarrassed, angered and humiliated by the incident and when she asked if I wanted to punish her I said yes, but that had no bearing on the legal issue, other than it was a factor in my decision to file the claim, as was the fact that she ignored my letter. She said that when she had gotten my letter she was flabbergasted and had written me a letter of apology, but been advised by a friend not to send it as it might inflame me further.. I replied if she had apologized that would have been an end to the matter. She seemed concerned that I was out to sue her for large sums, but I assured her I did not want her money, but I DID want her to understand, very clearly that the law protects me in this situation and that if taking her to the tribunal was what it took to get her attention I was willing to do it and in fact had been offered free representation in the matter, so not a lot to deter me really unless we could settle our differences in more amicable manner.

At this point my working life intervened and it was a week later before we finished our conversation...
I had had a good think and decided that what I wanted from the situation was a reassurance that she understood that diabetics are entitled to ask those questions and have them answered as honestly and accurately as possible. She had already apologized for the fact that I felt her behavior had humiliated me publicly and I accepted that apology. She explained that she had been worried by the line up behind getting antsy and feared that some people will just turn and leave if they think they will have to wait...she thought she was just being playful and trying to keep the situation light...she regretted she had not just taken me aside and sorted it out.... for my part, I can agree I went from 0—60 pretty fast and the situation deteriorated rapidly. I also accepted her explanation that when she came up to the table later, she was actually trying to pour oil on troubled waters, but unfortunately I was very aggravated by then and the conversation did not go well.

We were able to have a meeting of the minds, that a lot of what happened was a series of unfortunate events... the lady is sincerely worried by the prospect of people getting her recipes and I believe her when she says there was no malice in her behavior towards me. However, as I pointed out, my motivation in bringing the suit is immaterial....the only thing that matters to the Tribunal is the Code, which was breached. I think the main problem is perhaps public perceptions of what diabetics have to do day to day.. On the surface, it may seem pretty petty to go to court about a question asked about a salad dressing.... there is a bigger picture to consider however...I think it is very important that if we have the protection of law and cannot get satisfaction any other way, we must use that law...not to punish this lady, but as a way of shining a light on the principles involved and so that other restauranteurs can see what happened and even be MADE AWARE that diabetes is accepted as a disability under the law, and we are entitled to that acknowledgment as such.
I hope I have been able to separate the incident from the Human Rights Case, as they are distinct in my mind.

I am impressed and give the lady a lot of credit for the fact that she called me and listened with respect to my point of view, apologized for my discomfort, has gone the extra mile to see this won't happen again in her place, been very interested in my suggestions and I think and hope she now knows where I am coming from.

On this basis I have told her I am willing to dismiss the case against herself and her establishment.

I am given to understand that this ladies daughter googled her Mom's Bistro and on page one was my original posts on this issue and the ensuing threads...although I was only describing my personal feelings about the incident, some of my remarks were a bit unkind and I am sorry I inadvertently caused hurt in this way.
I am reminded yet again, that we are all only human and we all make mistakes and often misunderstand each others motives and reactions. I am glad we have talked this through and think we are both wiser for it.
Thanks to you all for your support....

[Jan B]

I am so happy this worked out and lessons were learned. I love the "ending". You never know; you might actually become friends!

[sprzepiora]

Good news on the happy ending, it sounds like both of you have learned from the experience.

[Scrabblechick]

I am glad for the postive resolution, soso! Good for both of you for working this out.

[fgummett]

Glad to hear there was a mutual resolution. I applaud you for sticking to your principles but also being able to discuss this with her, even at the 11th hour. I hope she has learned a valuable lesson.

I can't help wonder how it would have turned out had it been two guys :eek: I'm generalising of course... but not so well, I suspect :D

[davef]

It really sounds like a winning situation all around, for you, the restaurant owner and diabetics, between you there is probably now a restaurant that will be very considerate of the need for diabetics to have nutritional information.

Well done to you both for being "big" enough to reach a solution.

[Eddy]

I'm glad that this seems to have been resolved without hostility. However, I'd like to add:


Wouldn't a small taste on your finger told you if the dressing was too sweet?


Sweetener can be masked/overpowered by other flavors. The question also becomes, is the sweetness one that will play havoc with BG?

[soso]

you make a good point.. I once had a terrible high from a salad dressing in a chain restaurant and I applied it myself, so I didn't even use much.. my guess, straight glucose or corn syrup added.. it was a thai flavour and didn't taste that terribly sweet.
I go to a great little place regularly, where the cook knows us well, always pops out and tells me EVERYTHING that is in her soup of the day, sometimes just calling out "not for you today, too many yams!" Her salad dressing has a sweet edge, but is sparingly applied for me and I never have a problem with it... She does a lot of wheat free stuff as well and usually thickens her soups with cream... yum, my hero...

[Tiger Lily]

Soso,

i do hope this was resolved to your total satisfaction, and that any posts you have made here didn't impact your post today

she was a COW, pure and simple

[Coppernob]

I am glad that this situation was resolved on amicable terms - I think you handled the phone conversation in a very fair way and made your point at the same time. Well done. :)

[soso]

Hi Kate

I am glad you brought this up, as my husband was worried the tone of my post might imply I was under some pressure with regard to that...
It was certainly something the lady in question and I discussed, she did at one point drop the word slander into the conversation, but I responded immediately that I am not stupid, I am quite computer savvy and was/am fully aware that I am writing on a public forum and I know when I want to find out about anyone I google them. I assured her I stood behind everything I wrote, I went back and reread and there was def nothing slanderous in the material.. I suspect she was a bit upset about my DH description of his salad dressing, but as I pointed out, read the Globe's restaurant reviews, talk about brutal! If I said something derogatory and untrue, say in regards to the cleanliness or where they buy their food, that could be a problem, but I did not... the place was very clean and my friend clearly relished HER food.
I think restaurants have to live with the fact they may receive bad reviews sometimes, like actors and dress designers!

No, I am not in the least afraid of any reprisal, I believe that was just a defensive strategy and I am a very stubborn type, if I thought someone was threatening me, that would only cause me to dig my heels in harder—I would never bow to that sort of pressure. And I do not think she is that person anyway.

On the day of the incident, I would have agreed with your characterization, wholeheartedly, and I told her that after speaking with her for a total of almost 3 hours, although I believe her when she tells me that she never meant any harm, I think she was busy and probably irritated and proud which made her come across as aloof and superior.
However—my behavior with my clients is not always stellar when I am tired and stressed out.. so quite simply, I have let her off anyway. Ideologically, she and I are poles apart in many ways, but I do think that most people are basically good. It may have been that she only responded because of the claim, it may have been as she says, that she didn't respond on trusted advice, but in the end she made a lot of effort to resolve this and it couldn't have been easy to make that first phone call to me.
I am hot headed and some people say I can be hard, but I believe in the power of communication and I can have my mind changed if I see a body trying...

Thanks though, I really appreciate and value having you in my corner, in fact ALL of you have been so nice and supportive as usual... thanks guys!

[Eddy]

If it's written, it's libel, not slander. :)

[soso]

:D Haaha... I knew that........:D

[ShottleBop]

Glad to hear there was a mutual resolution. I applaud you for sticking to your principles but also being able to discuss this with her, even at the 11th hour. I hope she has learned a valuable lesson.

I can't help wonder how it would have turned out had it been two guys :eek: I'm generalising of course... but not so well, I suspect :D

Just as with two women, it would have depended on many variables: the individuals involved, the moods they were in, etc. Especially in this context, I don't know that you can rely on generalizations.

[Tiger Lily]

Soso, i have NEVER seen you as a hot head!

i'm glad you were able to work out the issues with her, and avoid going to court over this............ here's hoping she now allows information about the content of her food, as needed by diabetics

i must say that i have run into a similar problem in the past, so i have a list.............. i am diabetic, i need to know if you have sugar, honey, grape juice, other fruit juice, molasses, jam or OTHER sweeteners in this recipe........ splenda and equal are ok, nothing else is

the chef will usually answer THAT question

sigh :)

[soso]

Hahahaha! Kate, I am a true Gemini... I always try to be reasonable and polite, but I am a B*gger when I am roused!
Just ask my husband.. :whistling

When I write things down, my cool head has time to take over...

edited to say.... she is really trying very hard, I think it was just a case of not knowing the needs of diabetics and lets face it, if no one had asked before or explained that need... I bet she has diabetics yumming up her baked goods all the time—I know I wouldn't have minded!
I recently met up with an old pal and was telling her how I run my day to day and she stopped me in the middle and said "How do you KNOW all this? Did it take a long time to learn?" It seems like 2nd nature to us, but it is quite complex to a non D